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Race. We must talk about it, but we can't. Help, please?

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posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Peace to all! I hope you all find what you're looking for. Whatever it is, I don't have it.









posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



I think everybody had to read that book in school, certainly I did. Only some lessons can be taken from it as society is very different from the 1950s.


Glad to hear you read it. The author believed the only way to understand it was to become it. You know, like the old Indian saying, "walk a mile in my moccasins".

And in most cases the more things change, the more they stay the same. Maybe that's because we WANT them to stay the same. Plenty of people would dearly love to skip the fifties altogether and go all the way back to 1776 ~ when many of our founders owned slaves (both black and white).

Well, maybe we've arrived and don't know it.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 





Peace to all! I hope you all find what you're looking for. Whatever it is, I don't have it.


Well, I was looking for a modicum of understanding, empathy and wit...



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by frazzle
 


Actually racism is pretty mild compared to other countries, but one would never realise it till they leave their nation and travel abroad to some third world countries with no legal protection whatsoever. Rwanda, south africa, central america, south america, ethiopia, somalia, balkans, ceylon.

Blacks hating on ther blacks, catholics hating on orthodox christians, muslims hating on jews, hindus hating on budhists, everyone hating on athiests, etc.

Undo posted a video of what was going on in south africa with the apartheid regime. It was so horrible I simply could not watch it.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Well, I was trying to say that anyone starting a discussion about a situation they know nothing about in a first-hand way should refrain from coming across as judgmental, that's all.

I couldn't possibly know what it's like to be another race than what I am. Living it every day is something even the best researcher or imaginative thinker cannot do.

The past frames the present... if we all were cut off from the sickening perspectives of the past in relation to race, then you might have a leg to hop on... as it stands, we're immersed in our ill fitting hand-me-downs of conditioning.

So it might be better to realize we know little, ask serious questions and quit even coming to discussions with race foremost on the mind. Perhaps we should approach this on an individual basis with knowledge of past atrocity and daily belittling... along with the knowledge that even in this "enlightened" time, racial awareness looms large.

See this thread, for instance...



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by frazzle
 


Actually racism is pretty mild compared to other countries, but one would never realise it till they leave their nation and travel abroad to some third world countries with no legal protection whatsoever. Rwanda, south africa, central america, south america, ethiopia, somalia, balkans, ceylon.

Blacks hating on ther blacks, catholics hating on orthodox christians, muslims hating on jews, hindus hating on budhists, everyone hating on athiests, etc.

Undo posted a video of what was going on in south africa with the apartheid regime. It was so horrible I simply could not watch it.


Did you notice that most of what you referenced was religious sects pitted against other religious sects? That's the only thing that outdoes racism for sheer hatred.

Of course Christians in the west have been pretty much dehorned to the point of meaninglessness. More lip service than service to a god or humanity. But as long as they keep genuflecting to those 501C3s they're heaven bound, heaven being on Wall Street, of course.

Sorry, cynicism overtakes me from time to time.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 



catholics hating on orthodox christians, muslims hating on jews, hindus hating on budhists, everyone hating on athiests, etc.


That's not Racism...

No wonder there's been so much confusion and disagreement in this thread so far.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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LOL wow

So religion is race now ?

How's that possible?

Religion is learned behavior.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Baddogma
 

Dear Baddogma,

Before I hit reply, I have to tell you that I really like your approach. Reasonable, thoughtful, as respectful as necessary. This is a minature, the seed if you will, of a decent discussion. Thanks.

I can't know the thoughts of the other posters, but I'd be happy to explain mine and where I wanted the thread to go. Judgmental was certainly not my intent. As I think I mentioned (but maybe I didn't, old guy's memory you know), this thread was begun because a poster in another thread stressed the need and inevitably of a discussion on race.

I wanted to find out if a discussion was possible, or if it was just going to be fights and power politics for ever. I still believe there is some common ground on which we can meet and work on problems hurting all of us.

As you say, it's well nigh impossible to fully understand what another person is thinking or experiencing, but we are all we have. Blacks and Whites and every other race have to talk to each other or I see no solution.


The past frames the present... if we all were cut off from the sickening perspectives of the past in relation to race, then you might have a leg to hop on... as it stands, we're immersed in our ill fitting hand-me-downs of conditioning.
You're right, and you're offering two possible solutions. I'm not saying that we'll ever try them, but your offering great ideas. Why not reduce our reliance and emphasis on "the sickening perspectives of the past in relation to race?" Isn't focusing on the terrible things of the past quite possibly harmful?

And no one likes ill fitting hand-me-downs of conditiong." (Nice phrase by the way, very apt.) So, let's find out what this conditiong is, and how to stop it. I suspect Whites and Blacks both suffer from this. I don't see why both couldn't work on a solution together.


So it might be better to realize we know little, ask serious questions and quit even coming to discussions with race foremost on the mind.
I thought I had, see above. I'm probably misunderstanding you, but are you saying that we should not have discussions on race? Should they be on "human development?"


Perhaps we should approach this on an individual basis with knowledge of past atrocity and daily belittling... along with the knowledge that even in this "enlightened" time, racial awareness looms large.
OK, I like working with individuals instead of large amorphous groups. But don't we then have to stop saying "Whites are racists?" Or, "They always treat Black men like that?" I know that eliminates the Klan from any reasonable discussion (I think the lost that right a very long time ago.), but what does it do to Farrakhan and Sharpton? They talk in terms of racial groups all the time.

The problem that I'm still having is what are Whites supposed to actually do, not feel or understand, or sympathise with?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
LOL wow
So religion is race now ?
How's that possible?
Religion is learned behavior.

Godtards love to try muddle religion together with race (as asininely incongruous as it is) in order to reap the benefits of the protections race is afforded.
edit on 18-7-2013 by InvasiveProbing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 09:53 PM
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In many countries race and religion are inter-twinned into the culture.

Technically religion is not race and race is not religion. We all know that.

The point is people like to group themselves according to specific cultures.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Heh, maybe whites should do nothing outside of themselves? Why are they the ones to act? It's slightly paternalistic to think whites have to, or can do, a darned thing about "race," except, perhaps, to check themselves for biased thinking and avoid it.

Some of the problems outlined in this thread, and other places, derive from a sense of powerlessness. That sense can only be overcome by ability and will within an atmosphere that supports empowering acts.

Perhaps everyone should relax and take people on an individual basis... recognizing that genius and idiocy come in all forms, maybe even in themselves. The hopeful part in all of this is that anyone can learn new things, ways of thinking and perceiving.

It's a complex problem derived from many, many bad actions and wrong attitudes. It's not going to get better all at once, with the election of a black president, for instance.

It will get better gradually, as people learn their racist attitudes are empty and that exceptions are the norm, rather than the exception.
edit on 7/18/2013 by Baddogma because: unconvuluted a convulution



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by Baddogma
 

Dear Baddogma,

Very interesting. Thanks.


Heh, maybe whites should do nothing outside of themselves? Why are they the ones to act? It's slightly paternalistic to think whites have to, or can do, a darned thing about "race," except, perhaps, to check themselves for biased thinking and avoid it.
Now, batting in 6th position, the designated hitter, Mr. Confusion!

Since Zimmerman is still in the news (and, no, I will not talk about the trial), how do we, as a government, the press, the people, or any combination thereof, deal with the demands to fire the Police Chief, the demand for Zimmerman's arrest, the putting up of bounty posters, the "No justice, no peace," marches, and the demand that DOJ charge and convict Zimmerman of federal crimes?

It seems a bit much to say that Whites should just brush it off and "do nothing outside of themselves." Nobody should be attacking anybody for skin color, but one side is going to get upset if it believes the other side isn't playing by the rules. Whether they're Blacks or Whites, attacks and insults are going to hurt. I want to reduce the attacks and insults. But if there's nothing Whites can do, is there anything Blacks can do? If not, if no one can do anything, then we don't have a problem, we have a fact of life.


It will get better gradually, as people learn their racist attitudes are empty and that exceptions are the norm, rather than the exception.
Of course, I hope you're right, but if nobody can do anything outside of themself, why should the current situation not continue ad infinitum?

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Everything you brought up can be framed with the phrase "humans don't usually think too deeply before they act," rather than with the phrases "black people are reactionary and threatening," or "white people can't discuss race without being called racist." See?

No side is blameless, but there should be no "sides" at all... at least in respect to things one can't change, like melanin content in skin.

Not to be too confusing, but maybe just detach from the fray and watch from a nearby hill. Perspective can sometimes give one more insight than any wall of text. A drink, or something similar, might help too. Skoal.



posted on Jul, 18 2013 @ 11:46 PM
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They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.

I can't even talk the way these people talk:

Why you ain't,
Where you is,
What he drive,
Where he stay,
Where he work,
Who you be...

And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.

And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.

These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.

$500 sneakers for what?

And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

Where were you when he was 2?
Where were you when he was 12?
Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol?

And where is the father? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward:

Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?

People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body?

What part of Africa did this come from?

We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa.

I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid.

I was born here, and so were my parents and grandparents and, very likely my great grandparents.

I don't have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany, Scotland, England, Ireland, or the Netherlands.

The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa.

So stop, already! ! !

With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ......... And all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.

We have got to take the neighborhood back.

People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.

We have millionaire football players who cannot read.

We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.

Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.

We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.

We cannot blame the white people any longer.


- Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed.D



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by FuZe7
 



While what Cosby's stance is might be debatable, it never is debated. It is either heralded by those who agree, or decried as the ramblings of an "Uncle Tom" by those who don't. All those who wish to discuss it just aren't loud enough to really be heard.

But he makes some valid points, while obviously having some issues which completely detract from his sentiments.

In any event, I throw you a star before a potential mod edit (if someone calls it "inflammatory"), and the certain flamage it would create otherwise for years to come, after this thread has died and become an occasional resurrection.



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


I would first like to say, great thread.......

I've made it through page 5 and then jumped to the last 2 pages.
Will catch the middle later.

Evidently we can't look towards our leaders for guidance due to the fact they haven't exactly been the best role models.


The home is the best place to teach the kids but even then, it's touch and go.
As one poster stated, the social area has a lot of influence on molding a child's perspective, and the same can be said of schools.


I liked what Sonny1 said about the box of crayons......... "that the World is a giant Coloring box, and in the end we are all crayons. Many awesome colors to choose from. "




The MSM certainly has a lot to do with the fueling of the 'race' issue here lately.
Very disappointing and shameful.

So when the young people see on TV our President, Attorney Gen. Holder and the networks pushing this 'hate' agenda, well there will never be a solution, only more divisiveness.
[it also applies to politics as well]


S&F


Much respect~
snarky






edit on 19-7-2013 by snarky412 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle
 

Dear LittleBlackEagle,


i can't even believe i'm discussing this as i usually don't get involved with this type of thing.
I am sincerely honored and pleased that you decided this conversation was worth getting involved in. Thank you.

people have been prejudice for tens of thousands of years, propaganda has been around just as long,

I wonder if this prejudice can be reduced over time. Allow me to use myself as an example.

What seems like a hundred years ago I was in a military drill competition at a college in South Dakota. We knew there was a hostile audience, as the stands were filled with members of SDS. (Does anybody even remember them?) When we first went out, the students swarmed the floor and our team commander ordered us back into the locker room. He did that the next time as well. We were told, that whatever else happened, we were not to give up our grip on our rifle.

We were swarmed again, I was knocked to the floor, stepped on and kicked a few times, and basically froze with a death grip on my rifle. I was pulled out of the mob by the biggest, most beautiful black man I had ever seen. He was 9 1/2 feet tall, looked like a god, and could pull 50 box cars with one finger. (Of course, I was under a little stress.)

I recently thought about people in life I really admired. I was surprised to see that six out of seven were Black. These things make me think that change is possible, I just don't know how to make it happen, especially against the forces who want race relations to stay bad or get worse.

I'm wide open for your thoughts.

With respect,
Charles1952


nice story indeed.

my point was not to make it sound like anything is beneath me, i've been as low as you can go in this world so i know how it can be. my point was to hopefully show more people that unless we concentrate on the root of the issues, we will never fix anything and that discussing symptoms only, has never saved anyone anything.

our world, our society has been customized by the wealthy for so long, many no longer see their negative weight on the world. everyone assumes it's just random, it's not random, it's by design that we have to live this way and it's only in the best interest of the elite.

racism, slavery, corruption, uncaring, indebtedness, serfdom, taxes, unfair laws that only govern the masses and never the elite, these things aren't by chance, they are not random and will never change until people focus on the big picture and quit arguing about semantics.

so many are easily confused, misguided, lead astray call it what you will but they consume it like it's nectar from the gods. these discussion's serve no purpose to the aware human being, they have nothing to offer and serve only to cover up the root of the problem, the wealthy whom run this show globally. this is what i meant when i said "i can't believe i'm even discussing this" because discussion on semantics serves no positive and only spreads negative.

they're killing our world, our lives, our hopes and our dreams for generations to come and all the masses seem to do is waste time discussing semantics.

do your part and make a change within yourselves, that's how we can beat these people at their own game and it is a game for them, unlike the masses where it's life and death and misery so bad you may wish to be dead.

if you want to make it work we must all look within and heal ourselves first and arguing, discussing whatever you wish to call it, won't do any good if we are all blind to the root of the issue, lack of caring for ourselves and our fellow human beings and the elite.

yes i know, caring for the elite comes with a grainy taste in the mouth but it must also be done, they are just like us only self consumed and blind to the real world, then again are they so different at all......



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



Originally posted by charles1952
You may be right, I don't know what was in the person's head. It seemed to me that it was a little more angry, a little more "You Whites are going to have to listen to the non-Whites. You need to be told what they want, why they want it, and you have to accept your guilt and pay for it." As I say, I'm guessing, but it sounded like that.


Believe me, that's not what the quote said nor what it meant. The poster prides herself on saying what she means.
This discussion will happen in this country. It needs to happen.

Too many people want to claim that racism doesn't exist because we have a black president or because of some other measure, but that's like saying, "America doesn't have a problem with homeless veterans because look - I'm a veteran and I have a home..."

People claim that this is a post-racial society, but there are hundreds of indicators to the contrary.

If you read that thread I linked, you'll find I actually agreed with the Bill Cosby position. But not in the way that most people do. Most people lay his words out there (bolded) like an edict for black people - that they need to to get their "stuff" together... But we ALL need to work together to change the dynamic of race in this country. We ALL make racism happen and we ALL need to work together to make it go away. Affirmative action isn't going to do it. Welfare isn't going to do it. NAACP isn't going to do it. A black president isn't going to do it.

The PEOPLE need to do it. And that starts with open and honest discussion with us ALL. It starts with curiosity, interest and the acknowledgement that racism exists in the first place, and then it will take the DESIRE to make it go away. Most of the people here don't even think racism exists. It doesn't affect them in their daily lives - they don't see it, so it doesn't exist. They aren't curious about it. They think the media is manufacturing it...

People aren't willing to explore this thing called "white guilt", they just deny it and hurl it like an insult at anyone who dare feel compassion for the race as a whole. They deny being racist and instead, call those who wish to talk about it "racist" as an insult. If we took the "sting" out of the word "racist" that would help immensely! We are born into a racist country. OK, maybe we're not the MOST racist country. Sure, there are countries that are MORE racist than we are. But are we willing to accept that? Should there be ANY racism? Shouldn't we work toward an ideal of betterment?

Silent Racism: How Whites Perpetuate the Status Quo

This is a test I did during that thread I linked earlier... It's an eye opener.


Race IAT Test

We have a long way to go.
But only if we shed the stigma of being "racist" will we move forward. I love to think that I'm not racist, but I was born in the USA and raised by racist parents. They didn't belong to the KKK or anything, and I even dated outside my race (they HATED that I dated a black man, but a Latino guy was OK) and I picked up subtle cues my whole life. If we could all be a little more honest with ourselves, and stop thinking of "racism" as the worst insult in the world, we might just be able to move forward...



posted on Jul, 19 2013 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Politicians with dishonest agendas play the race card whenever it suits them. It helps deflect from important issues like domestic spying. The middle eastern governments do the same thing when it comes to supporting the palestinians over israel.

There are many intra-racial and inter-racial crimes committed in america every day so honestly I see no reason why the zimmerman trial had to reach such epic porportions, much like the OJ simpson trial. At least OJ was a football star where as zimmerman was a wannabe cop nobody.



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