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Are women being turned into livestock again?

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posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 11:31 AM
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"The birth control pill revolutionised women's health - and grew to become one of the most popular forms of family planning. But it is now under attack from pro-life groups in the US.

A growing number of doctors and pharmacists are now refusing to dispense it, on the grounds that it is actually a form of abortion.

Pro-choice groups fear this new moral objection to the Pill could lead to more unplanned pregnancies, even more abortions. "

news.bbc.co.uk...

Has this issue been covered here before??

Apparently with conservative, religious people taking control of the country, even our right to prevent conception is being threatened. Obviously, abortion is a hot button for people on both sides of the issue, but women have had access to pregnancy prevention for a long time. You would think that if you don't want women exercising authority over their own bodies after they are pregnant, then all efforts would be made for those women to prevent pregnancy. The birth control pill is a cheap, easy, close to 100% way to do that. No pregnancies, no abortions.

It seems women are being forced back to a time when sex was only for men, and women are at the mercy of male "compassion" if they end up pregnant. Sex is legal. Premarital, extramarital, whatever, as long as it involves consenting adults. Birth control is legal. And still, barely, abortion is legal. How is it good for our country to take away a person's control over their own body? How is it good for our country to make one half the population (the female half) dependent on the other for the choice of whether or nor to bear a child. Men rape, men coerce, men lie, men cheat. Most women have been at the receiving end of male wiles when sex is at stake. And too many women have seen how fast those men deny any responsibility if the woman gets pregnant.

Have some common decency people!! If you want to take away a woman's right not to have a child, at least leave prevention of pregnancy alone. PLenty of women want to have children. Let the ones who don't live in peace with the rights afforded to a citizen of a free country.




posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 11:36 AM
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If their going to go that far and say that the pill is a form of abortion might as well take the condom away too...

That damn sperm.... You men must die....



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 11:40 AM
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Side note...

Other forms of "contraceptives" include the diaphram, that foamy stuff you spray up there there to "catch semen" the female condom, tube tying, ect...


Are these bungholes going to go that far and say these are forms of abortion too???
Holy Hannah, maybe it's time American women become the new Amazon Warrior Women.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
If their going to go that far and say that the pill is a form of abortion might as well take the condom away too...

That damn sperm.... You men must die....


Oh boy! Don't go there
There is a story in the bible about a man, Onan, I think, wasting his seed on the ground. God cursed or punished him for it (don't have my bible with me, so I can't quite remember the details). That is supposedly where the whole "masturbation is bad" school of thought came from. If the folks who want a return to old testament law keep at it, I'm sure even condoms will be sinful.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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Like I said on anther thread Mr. happy and his seed had to be regulated also this country is going too far in taking women rights away.

Education, accessible birth control for the single and family plan for the married is what we need not legislation.

For god sake can somebody stops the pharmaceuticals from making more pills to keep Mr. Happy, happier.

The "Christian" fundamentalist wants to take women birth control away but I do not see any of them complaining about "performance enhancement pills" for males.

I see it this way they are encouraging old men to find younger women so they can enjoy their renew "libido". While their aging wives are just too tired to performanyway, I do not see any Christian groups claiming that these "enhancement" pills are going to brake long term marriages.

They show in commercials these beautiful older ladies with their improved husband but we all know how most of older women really look in this country.

I tell you this is a male dominated society and people live with double standards and we women are the losers.


I want to see Mr. Happy legislated as a danger to women health and well being.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
Side note...

Other forms of "contraceptives" include the diaphram, that foamy stuff you spray up there there to "catch semen" the female condom, tube tying, ect...


Are these bungholes going to go that far and say these are forms of abortion too???
Holy Hannah, maybe it's time American women become the new Amazon Warrior Women.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by TrueLies]


One reason why the pill is so popular is that when taken correctly, it works better than most forms of birth control. There are side effects, so it's not for everyone though. If you factor out drug company profits, it's really cheap too. Surgical sterilization is pretty effective
I should know, I'm spayed myself. But it ain't cheap and it's potentially life-threatening, like any surgery requiring you to be put under. And I'm sure some women want to choose *when* to have a baby, not just if. Even lawfully married christian couples might want to have moral sex, but delay having children for financial or other reasons. They don't call it family planning for nothing!

I heard a blurb about pharmacists denying birth control to women on Air America this morning, and googled it to see what's up. I had no idea about past cases of this happening, and with the recent move to theocracize america, it's really really scary.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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I can not understand why the people make such a sedition, the world is anyhow over-populated isnt she?..China and (Japan ?) "advertise" not for no purpose for the "1 Kid Family"


btw..Saerlaith, cool pic in your avatar


[edit on 9-11-2004 by dacruz]



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Saerlaith
Oh boy! Don't go there
There is a story in the bible about a man, Onan, I think, wasting his seed on the ground. God cursed or punished him for it (don't have my bible with me, so I can't quite remember the details). That is supposedly where the whole "masturbation is bad" school of thought came from. If the folks who want a return to old testament law keep at it, I'm sure even condoms will be sinful.


Exacty my point Saerlaith, you can not find anything about women's condenation of having a womb in the bible but you can find the sin's of spilling the seeds without a womb.


And again religous fundamentalist interpret their "believes" to their own agenda just like a politician.

They need to be stop.


Women out there don't you get it, if you are stuck with a house full of brats you will be stuck at home and your years of education and your dreams of becoming somebody will die, because society and religious fundamentalist wants to dominate you. They are in a mission of taken any rights women have and they one women to be dependant on a man.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by marg6043]

[edit on 9-11-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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This could be a conspiracy!


Think about it...........The white man runs America the white man doesn't want any other race above him and because white people are becoming a minority in this country they could be getting scared thus enforcing abortion laws and contraceptive laws to spawn more white folks...

I know it sounds out there, but so does a muslim or mexican president.... (to them, not me I could care less who the prez is)





[edit on 9-11-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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Look how easy it is to turn a wild animal into a nice tame one. If you get rid of the ones who refuse to be tamed, or don't behave how the powers that be want (think witch burnings), the ones that are left will breed nice docile offspring.

"The red fox (Vulpes fulva) has been raised on seminatural fur farms for over 100 years and was selected for fur traits and not behavioral traits. However, they demonstrate three distinctly different characteristic responses to man. Thirty percent were extremely aggressive toward man, 60% were either fearful or fearfully aggressive, and 10% displayed a quiet exploratory reaction without either fear or aggression. The objective of this experiment was to breed animals similar in behavior to the domestic dog. By selecting and breeding the tamest individuals, 20 years later the experiment succeeded in turning wild foxes into tame, border collie-like fox-dogs. "
www.dogstuff.info...

They've done it with cattle too. www.limousinnz.co.nz...

I have tons of research for a site that will hopefully be up & running soon, documenting that female humans have been bred down and domesticated over time. I think right along with that is that men are being bred to take direction well, while still retaining the testosterone needed to rile them up for battle. Icky stuff!



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:22 PM
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I don't GET "this right to prevent conception."

Every Choice has a natural set of outcomes. Since WHEN do we think we can simply prevent one set of outcomes by shutting down opportunities for spirits to incarnate--

and yet, that's just a matter of convenience? How can the matter of incarnation be a matter of convenience or preference?

Wow. Destruction is NEVER a blessing; LIFE is not a problem.

How many childless couples are unable to find a healthy child to love and care for?

What kind of racket is it, that makes family life a matter of whim?

I'm not here to advocate any secular laws in this regard. People vote on the laws they want to abide by.

However, the Choices I made and make in my life reflect Jesus' concern for and reverence for Life as it is gifted to us by God Almighty.

If you want a morning-after pill, that simply describes where you are in your consciousness.

But, like the market for porn and violence, I'm just not going there myself.

Does this make any sense to you--who want infinite opportunity for control and power over your personal experience?

Will you leave NOTHING to God?

[shrug--there's just NO icon for shrug.]



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Saerlaith
I have tons of research for a site that will hopefully be up & running soon, documenting that female humans have been bred down and domesticated over time.


You have never met my wife or daughters


I kind of doubt this 99.99999% of the people through most of history were slaves or serfs. People probibly are more (our at least the same) agressive now than in the past.

[edit on 9-11-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by SaerlaithI have tons of research for a site that will hopefully be up & running soon, documenting that female humans have been bred down and domesticated over time. I think right along with that is that men are being bred to take direction well, while still retaining the testosterone needed to rile them up for battle. Icky stuff!


Nah, that's socialization and not breeding.

In nomadic societies, women were generally expected to be fairly independant (since you didn't know when your man might be coming back.) In highly structured societies with a strong difference in male and female roles, you find the "highly domesticated woman" ... with a few "bluestockings" or rebels as social outcasts. Punishment for being "different" could be fairly extreme.

In societies with few differences between men's and women's roles, women are more independant/feisty. If you move a woman from one society (restrictive) into another (less restrictive) and give her time to acculturate to the new society, she becomes more "uppity."



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
I don't GET "this right to prevent conception."

Every Choice has a natural set of outcomes. Since WHEN do we think we can simply prevent one set of outcomes by shutting down opportunities for spirits to incarnate--

and yet, that's just a matter of convenience? How can the matter of incarnation be a matter of convenience or preference?

Wow. Destruction is NEVER a blessing; LIFE is not a problem.

How many childless couples are unable to find a healthy child to love and care for?

What kind of racket is it, that makes family life a matter of whim?

I'm not here to advocate any secular laws in this regard. People vote on the laws they want to abide by.

However, the Choices I made and make in my life reflect Jesus' concern for and reverence for Life as it is gifted to us by God Almighty.

If you want a morning-after pill, that simply describes where you are in your consciousness.

But, like the market for porn and violence, I'm just not going there myself.

Does this make any sense to you--who want infinite opportunity for control and power over your personal experience?

Will you leave NOTHING to God?

[shrug--there's just NO icon for shrug.]




I think we take matters into our own hands for convenience every time we blow our noses with anti-viral tissue. Killing life, preventing new life, and subverting the possibility that your god wanted people to get sick. We are a medically/technically proficient culture and that knowledge is being used to control human destiny all the time. For lifesaving purposes, and also pure selfish convenience. Is that wrong too? It seems a bigger wrong to force women to have children they may have tried to prevent. If it's legal/moral/ whatever for men to prevent their sperm from making children, then it must be just as appropriate for women.

Yes, I know, don't want babies, don't have sex. Don't want cancer don't smoke, drink, live near a nuclear plant. But people do have sex, and we have the means to prevent conception, a goal of almost every culture since people figured out the birds and the bees.

More power to you if you are sticking to your personal beliefs, but keep them personal. The founding documents of this country specifically mention that it's against the law to make laws regarding religion, either for or against. So within those parameters, taking away a humans right to use medical technology to improve their life, because your religion disapproves it, is un-american.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Nah, that's socialization and not breeding.



Well, I'm still researching, and generalizations always get one into trouble. There have been written accounts of early european women being large and warrior-like, lots of stories of women soldiers, generals, leaders, etc. that are glossed over in most textbooks. And if you look at the gist of most advertising, there is a huge pink/blue, boy/girl, gun/barbie focus that little kids and their parents seem to think just fine. I know there are plenty of individuals that are pretty undomesticated
, myself included. But in general, I think there has been a breeding and socializational push to keep women happy and tame. Much easier for leaders to make plans when they can count on certain behaviors from their subjects.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 01:14 PM
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As for Birth control and God, what do you think Gods answer will be when every family has 10-15 kids? A long time ago it didnt matter most would die before growing up but now they wont.We would hit 15-20 BILLION people in just a few years. Or maybe medicine is "sinful" also and subverting Gods will? So to obey God we have to live in an over populated disease filled world?

That is compassion for life?



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 01:23 PM
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Why, you think God doesn't KNOW when the Planet is "filled"?

You think God doesn't KNOW what to do or how to renew a race that is overwhelming the eco-system?

Could it be that the allowance of Evil always seems to do the "pruning" just before a series of natural disasters transforms the planet?

That pattern does seem to have recurred time and time again, throughout history.

The "allowance" of Evil to operate for a time--cuts many lives short and places them in the Subjective so that Change can be accomplished.

Harsh but apparently, true.



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 01:27 PM
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why make it illegal when you can just leave it and let the woman decide?
its her choice isnt it?



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
You think God doesn't KNOW what to do or how to renew a race that is overwhelming the eco-system?


So your answer is to have as many kids as possible so you can watch the die from famine?

just courious do you believe in medicine? Isnt that subverting Gods will, after all doesnt he know when you are susposed to die?

And if it was Gods will for you to have a child how would a pill stop that? Is the pill more powerful than God?



posted on Nov, 9 2004 @ 01:31 PM
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"Will you leave NOTHING to God? "

Ya know, this is only my opinion, but well, seems to me that one of the biggest problems is that man didn't leave one small thing to god. When you surrender your life to christ, well, what did that consist of, just words muttered...or did they mean something, like, umm....you were placing everything in his hands, and allowing him to lead you and have a certain amount of control over ALL OF YOUR LIFE. Welll, what happened to dear wifey there? Doesn't seem that you have left her at the alter, for God to handle, like your finances, employment, and all the other little tidbits of life you put faith in God to handle. Name me one church that has not got women in a position where technicallly the women is under the lordship of her husband. Before you start knocking around 40-50 year old women not having enough faith to attempt to bring a 9-10lb bably into this world, well, you better ask yourself why you don't trust God to lead your wife into the life HE wishes for her to have, but would rather coerce her with threats from the heavens.


[edit on 9-11-2004 by dawnstar]




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