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Originally posted by tacitblue
You know, this nails the problem with the pro-life vs. pro-choice debate right on the head. The issue isn't the issue... The issue is freedom of choice.
Pro-choice doesn't mean you have to have an abortion... It means you have the CHOICE to have an abortion. It is possible to be pro-choice AND against abortion. It is a personal decision - just like what religion to believe in.
Originally posted by DrHoracid
Abortion is MURDER. Contraceptives are pre-life Catholic BS. Just Satan-the-pope trying to confuse the stupid women again. Longer live Mr. Happy, key word Longer....................
Originally posted by 0951
Originally posted by Bikereddie
I had a vasectomy 15 years ago, so guess that means i'm guilty of "aborting" my sperm going by the standard that the contraceptive pill is deemed the same as abortion.
As celibate (and happily so) - where does this leave me then ?
No better probably, for passing over the 'opportunity', and being selfish etc...
I'm of the view that I'm not being used by my DNA - all that stuff about falling in love, building a home, having kids - it's all nonsense - it's just a trick played on you by 'your' DNA looking to survive another generation by fiddling about with your body chemistry and making you feel "emotions".
I guess being an atheist (& an evolutionist too, whilst I'm at it) helps too, as I don't need to comply with any externally derived "moral duty" either ...
Apologies to Bikereddie, this wasn't really in any way a response to your posting, but there was a nice link there about being "guilty of aborting" that I wanted to build on: Hope you're ok with that
[edit on 9-11-2004 by 0951]
Originally posted by tacitblue
Condoms are outlawed in the Roman Catholic Church; though it is only minorities of devote practitioners who abide by the rule.
Ever been to any mostly Catholic 3rd world country? Guatamala? I wouldn't exactly say minorities...
tacitblue I think you misunderstood my post. I was not saying only minority GROUPS abide by this rule, but the minority of practicing Catholics.
Men should have no weight in debate on this issue. We make up only one tiny second of the birthing process - in a purely phisiological sense.
Okay take away the tiny second of the birth process men ARE involved in and you have NO baby. I think that is a pretty significant involvment don't you. Unless of course we soley practice artificial insemination--which a lot of Anti-Choice (I won't call them Anti-abortionsts) also see as a form of abortion.
Men can surely debate, but only from the sidelines... I'd be interested to see how issues like this would turn out if that were the case.
There for, those setting policy regarding women's reproductive rights should be female. Female politicians should set female focused laws.
This is one of the most undemocratic views I have ever read. To say a mixed experience collective should have no involvent in making laws for individual groups is a fascist ideology! So you also think only woman jurers should sit at rape trials, led by female judges only?
Let's take your theory one step futher: Only black people can make laws about black issues. Only the elderly make laws about pensions. Only doctors make laws about healthcare. Only children make children's laws. Only Muslims passing laws for followers of Islam. Only refugees making laws about their new countries asylum and intake policy.Only the unborn making laws about abortion and contraception!!!
Very secular thinking. Next we will only be having religious leaders making laws for everyone. All based on that great and unbiased work of Fact th Bible, or the New Constitution of The USA as it seems to be now known. George Orwell wrote in Animal Farm a seven conmandment constitution for his fictional animal society. The seventh was "All animals are created equal." All seven were later replaced with the one comandment "
All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
Also "no animal shall kill another animal" became "No animal shall kill another animal without cause".Using religion, politics or any ideology to the determine the moral choices of people is a very weak and easily manipulated form of thinking.
Originally posted by just_a_pilot
Saer, before I continue I want you to know I am pro-choice.
But here is where it does not make sense to me. This is not in assumption of a long term relationship.
If you get pregnant and do not want the child you can have an abortion. What if you are pregnant and do not want the child and the father WANTS the child? Where are his rights? He cannot force you to have the child nor will the courts side with him.
What if the father wants absolutly nothing to do with the child yet the mother decides to keep it? Why should the father be liable for child support? I should think that if the one night stand that resulted in a pregnancy happened and the father under no circumstances wants anything to do with it then he should not have to pay child support if the womans choice was to have the baby.
What if you are pregnant and do not want the child and the father WANTS the child? Where are his rights? He cannot force you to have the child nor will the courts side with him.
Originally posted by James the Lesser
We were lucky that the mauslims finally took control of Europe and started the Renissance or we may still be afraid of demons killing our crops and dieing at the ripe old age of 25. If christians never existed this place would be far better then what it is.
Originally posted by veritas93
Also, human beings have been using religion (which includes far more than just Christianity) to manipulate the masses for many thousands of years now. "If christians never existed"... people would have manipulated some other religion for their personal gain and I doubt that "this place would be" any better than "what it is" now.
Originally posted by DrHoracid
Abortion is MURDER.
Originally posted by Saerlaith. Men rape, men coerce, men lie, men cheat. Most women have been at the receiving end of male wiles when sex is at stake. And too many women have seen how fast those men deny any responsibility if the woman gets pregnant.
Originally posted by Saerlaith
Men rape, men coerce, men lie, men cheat. Most women have been at the receiving end of male wiles when sex is at stake. And too many women have seen how fast those men deny any responsibility if the woman gets pregnant.