Is Christianity a Religion of War?

So you have proven you can take scripture out of context and make it say what you want so you can whore for stars, and then pat yourself on the back.

You know, just forget it. I'm not going to bother wasting anymore of my time on you.

I don't think the parable you quoted is Jesus referring to himself, but the people who did and still do run the world today.

It is implied at the beginning of that passage that the parable was told because they were near Jerusalem and because the people thought the kingdom would come at once, so it's possible that he was telling them that particular parable because of how those who ran the holy land were "hard men" that would kill anyone who didn't agree with them or submit to them and how things would still be even after he was killed.

Jesus was anything but a "hard man" and never came off that way throughout the rest of the gospels, so I find it extremely hard to believe that he was referring to himself when he told that parable. It goes completely against his character in the rest of the gospels.

Also, if you look at the passage directly after that one you will read this:

Luke 19
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes.

I think this is referring to Jerusalem and the religious leaders in general rejecting his teachings on peace, and instead killing him and sticking to the same old ways as referenced in the parable.

He even goes on to the temple and chastises those who are there, meaning he didn't agree with how things were being ran. This is also a reference to the parable and how Jerusalem was the "nobleman".

I think you're taking the parable out of context personally. As for the rest, I agree that Christianity is a religion of war because it makes people complacent and that makes them uncaring and indifferent to bad things like war.

BUT, I will say that Christianity only follows Jesus in name, not teachings. They twisted his message to suit their needs. Jesus saying he came not to bring peace but war was him foretelling what his teachings would end up becoming and how those in power would create war over what he said, which is why he is referenced as having a double-edged sword in his mouth in Revelation.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Jesus was only hard to the Moneychangers at the Temple . Those money changers at the Temple are just like the ones today . They are the same money worshipping Jews as of today except that they have branched out to strangle the world .

Jesus did not just preach peace and love to His disciples. What He was teaching His disciples was meant to taught to the rest of the world. That was the whole point, they were being prepared for their mission. What the Bible says is only the surface, while what is implied goes much, much deeper. And part of Jesus' message did have a lot to do with the coming of God, which would entail a great battle between the forces of light and darkness, but that by no means implies this a religion of killing and war.

It is quite obvious from what Jesus taught that man was not supposed to kill other men. The whole "war" that is coming is supposed to be more of a supernatural conflict. It is stated that at the time when Jesus comes back the world will be embedded in conflict between various nations, but this is not the doing of God, Jesus, or good people...Rather it is the doing of bad men. People like those who run the governments of the world today.

I have seen people attribute all the bad things to God way too often, when the truth is that the free will of man is the cause of all the world's pain and suffering. And people think God should care more and fix things, but why should He? He understands that the life a person lives on earth as a physical being is not a long one, and constitutes only a minute fraction of their entire existence. So while a human being will view something bad as being something that is just horrible in the course of their life, it really does not mean anything great, because the emotions that humans feel, and the time they spend on earth, mean little. It is true that how one conducts themselves on earth may play a role in their life after death, but I was just explaining why God doesn't come down and "fix" everything.

Everything will be "fixed" after one has died, and the Bible teaches that even while some are still alive things will be "fixed" after Jesus establishes His reign on earth. This is what the Bible teaches, and what Christians believe.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Jesus was only hard to the Moneychangers at the Temple . Those money changers at the Temple are just like the ones today . They are the same money worshipping Jews as of today except that they have branched out to strangle the world .

I have a friend that says this as well....

Why does everyone blame the jews?

reply to post by SimonPeter


And those money-changers were the ones who worked for the people running that temple, a.k.a. the religious leaders. Those who set up and still run Christianity today are no different, they are greedy, power hungry men who care nothing about the truth, only their bottom line.

They are more than willing to lie in order to expand their bottom line, and that's exactly what they did when they legalized Christianity, they lied and are still lying to this day.

Grats on getting your condescending and sarcastic overtones to come out so well in type.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


What a dumb thread only used to breed hate!

reply to post by Akragon


Take a few minutes and read the Protocols of Zion from the site . Also the Talmud that was not an inspired book from God .Then think about who controls the worlds banking systems as well as our privately owned bank they call the Fed. reserve . Also look at who controls News and most of the Hollywood media , ACLU and the other areas prescribed in them for their agenda .

reply to post by JDmOKI
[ore]


Is truth also hate ? I have not condemned them . I am for Israel which has nothing to do with the Money Changers .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Israel is the Jewish headquarters of the world. What were you saying about Jews earlier?

What makes you think the headquarters has nothing to do with the business so to say? If Jews are money changers as you say, it's a safe bet that their leaders and CEO's are too.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

So we are in the period of history before Jesus the Warrior comes from heaven with an army to vanquish those that have not been converted?

All Christians want Jesus to return.
Jesus can't return unless the world is at war.
Do all Christians want the world to be at war so Jesus will return?

edit on 13-7-2013 by MichaelPMaccabee because: (no reason given)

Thanks for replying. I know you've had a bunch of other replies, but another can't hurt... so here's mine.

1) Yes, all Christians want Jesus to return.

2) "Jesus can't return unless the world is at war." This isn't quite correct or accurate. Jesus can return at any time. In fact, there are absolutely no preconditions on the return of Christ for the church. The preconditions are placed on the return of Christ to earth for Israel, which is not the same thing. It is at THAT time that He will come as King.

The Bible talks about (and Christians argue about this, but I think the logic Scripturally is pretty clear) two events: the Rapture, and the 2nd Coming. The Rapture is an event that is theologically described as "imminent"; that is, that it can occur at any time. There are no specific signs or markers given for this event. This is what I, as a Christian, look for.

The 2nd Coming occurs after the Tribulation (composed of 2x 3.5 year periods, the tribulation being the whole 7 years, and the Great Tribulation being a specific reference to the last 3.5 years of that 7 year period). This time will be after the removal of the church in the Rapture, and the removal of the Holy Spirit from the world - which will result in, in many respects, the removal of God's influence from the world. All hell will break loose - almost quite literally. This will result in war, yes.

So, do all Christians want war so that Jesus can return?
No. We don't require that... war isn't necessary for Christ to return for His church... but it will be a visible sign prior to Christ's return to rule from Jerusalem as King.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


If you visit the site you will see the Protocols Of Zion. The real Jews worship God through the Law and some are Messianic Jews . Those Money changers like the Golden Calf worshipers do not represent the true Jew . Pal said All in Israel is not Israel . God said I have reserved to my self 7,000 Jews who have not bent their knee to Baal . So we know that the endtimes will play out in Israel but only God knows who are his chosen .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Israel is in the back pocket of America, and we all know how corrupt America is. Why would Israel be in the pocket of such a corrupt country if they themselves aren't corrupt?

The dark side has cookies.

2nd.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Well in the bible it is claimed GOD killed millions of people out of selfish/vengeful/evil actions.
I've seen all kinds of twisted logic used by Christians to defend these actions, but they don't dispute it.
In the bible "satan" is the bad one when infact compared to GOD satan did very little in the way of genocide.
(That doesn't mean I support either.)
Limbo

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


I'm appalled that none of ATS's more well spoken Christians haven't called you out for this. Let's go through your first post:

1. Jesus was murdered. John 19
2. Jesus can only return when the world is at war. 1Thes. 2:3 (Revelations, entire book)
3. No peace is possible until Jesus returns. Isaiah 48:22; 1Thes:5:3; Dan:8:25
4. Peace without Jesus is a lie and a sign of the AntiChrist 1Thes:5:3; Dan:8:25

1) Yes. Yes he was. I suppose every other victim of murder is the God of war too.
2) Wrong. Because God has chosen to give people like you ample time to reconsider your views, there will be inevitable conflicts that occur as a result of HUMAN nature. This does not imply that WAR is somehow linked to the personality or character of Christ.
3) That is correct. This thread is a good example as to why it is correct.
4) Peace without Jesus is never defined as a "Lie". You should probably re-examine the scriptures you are talking about or I don't know, even quote them, for people who won't bother to look them up for themselves.

Rev. 19:11-16

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Then you say:

We see here Jesus the Warrior. He is atop a horse with an army at his back, attacking those whom oppose him. There is no misunderstanding exactly what is being said. Jesus has come to make war.

Apparently there IS a misunderstanding. This particular passage speaks about the word of God, and specifically Christ's role in administering that word. Do you suggest that he will shoot magical swords from his mouth that stab everyone? Or are you willing to admit the parable here?

Matthew 10:34–39

Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

and you say this:

Here Jesus discusses, rather violently, the dissolution that he is going to set upon the Earth. He will rip apart families and cause strife in the homes of those who do not follow his teachings.

What Christ is demonstrating here is that people like you will sow dissent amongst their own families due to Christian converts. Do you happen to have someone in your family that is a Christian? Even distantly? Do you look at them in the same way you clearly gloat over yourself? Perhaps that is a hint to what was being spoken about here.

You then say this in regards to Luke 19:11-27:

Here we have Jesus setting himself up in a parable as King, clearly discussing what should happen to non-believers.

Based on what evidence? What you claim is contrary to the nature and character of Christ. Not only that, but it is contrary to his WORD. Jesus is using a parable to convey the nature of the kingdom of man in contrast to the kingdom of heaven here, and you have missed the boat entirely.

You then proceed to sample random Old Testament scriptures to back up your claims (again out of context) that cannot possibly back up your assertion that Christ (and by extension his followers) worship, follow, or support war.

CHRISTIANINTY doesnt preach war......it actually teaches peace!! True christians wont go to war, cause it is wrong to kill!!

But the Bible Preaches at the end of times man will destroy themselves......they will have forgotton about God! They will worship bad things.....GOOD will be seen as wrong and BAD will be seen as good!

God will let man rule themselves until they realize no matter what type of government we create....it will not be the answer...only God's rule will prevail!

The Bible talks about the problems of man in the end times....it predicts a massive build up to war against Israel...but God will stop this battle before it takes place!

CHRISTIANINTY is about peace, not war........

i think what Christianity does is state the truth about human nature, and that is that we in the flesh have a tendency to be at war with ourselves, with our neighbor, and with our Creator. We do not want to submit and in truth we cannot without God's grace working in us... this is why the only way into the kingdom is to be born again... to receive the down payment in your inner spirit for what is to come... the new race of humanity that is in Christ.

Jesus said "the poor will always be with you"... and because human nature is what it is (although we have much potential for good also with God's help)... wars will always be with us. See James 4:1-4.

elsewhere... "do you not know the spirit of which you are of?" Luke 9:55.

God does not deal with us with justice at the present time of grace, but with mercy (because of the blood, testimony, and total righteousness of Christ). At some point there will be justice, and it will be dealt out by the person most qualified to judge... the righteous Son of God who humbled Himself, and died for humanity... this is why rejecting Christ's sacrifice is such an aweful thing... it is a choice for justice instead of mercy... and no human being (aside from Christ) can stand before God's Holy presence based on justice... only by mercy alone.