Is Christianity a Religion of War?

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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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Is Christianity a Religion of War?

In another thread, I brought up the idea that Christianity was a religion of War and Vengeance. I am going to outline my views here in this thread as to free up the other thread from running even more off topic.

1. Jesus was murdered. John 19
2. Jesus can only return when the world is at war. 1Thes. 2:3 (Revelations, entire book)
3. No peace is possible until Jesus returns. Isaiah 48:22; 1Thes:5:3; Dan:8:25
4. Peace without Jesus is a lie and a sign of the AntiChrist 1Thes:5:3; Dan:8:25

There was a portion of the people responding saying that Jesus preached peace and love, while this is true, he preached it only toward his disciples. To others he preached death and destruction. These are not my opinions, these are scripture. Jesus is a Warrior God. Below are the scriptures that show this visage.


Rev. 19:11-16

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.


We see here Jesus the Warrior. He is atop a horse with an army at his back, attacking those whom oppose him. There is no misunderstanding exactly what is being said. Jesus has come to make war.

Matthew 10:34–39

Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.


Here Jesus discusses, rather violently, the dissolution that he is going to set upon the Earth. He will rip apart families and cause strife in the homes of those who do not follow his teachings.

Luke 19:11-27

While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’“But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’“He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it. “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’“‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

“The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’ “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’“Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’ “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’ “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’ “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

“He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”


Here we have Jesus setting himself up in a parable as King, clearly discussing what should happen to non-believers.

These are not taken out of context. These are entire passages of the book taken as they were written with their meanings intact.

This is but a small sampling of how Christianity offers itself up as a religion of War and Vengence, crafted by an angry and admittedly jealous God. (Exodus 20:5; Deuteronomy 5:9; Deuteronomy 6:15) If Christianity is a religion whose God was murdered, and whose prophecies for his return state the the world must be at War (Revelations: Entire Book), how can any Christian really hope for peace and not strive for the war that will bring Jesus back to take them home?

Am I missing something vital to the story, or is this it? Is this the real reason so much war has been waged in the name of Christianity? Is it merely a religion of War that has transcended that original meaning by those less interested in the warrior aspects of Jesus in favor of the friendly man that died for their sins?

However, as we have seen, he didn't die for everyone's sins, just those that believe in him. (John 3:16) Do those sins include things like killing in his name? I don't see why they wouldn't, especially with the scriptures I have posted evidencing that claim.

I'm interested in seeing what happens here.




posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


There is a magnitude of condoning death and violence in the Bible. At times from God himself apparently. For horrible asinine reasons that would throw someone in prison for their remaining days, or at the least be ostracized from friends and family.

As a result a huge amount of cognitive dissonance is created from the religious person while attempting to remain faithful and believing it's the 'Word of God'. Just doesn't jive with the part of them that is modernized. In order to reconcile, excuse after excuse is fabricated on the Bible's behalf.

Now saying Christianity is a religion of war to me depends on whether we are talking historically or the religion as it is today. I think Christianity is a religion of mind control. I feel this way about other religions as well.
edit on 13-7-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Now saying Christianity is a religion of war to me depends on whether we are talking historically or the religion as it is today. I think Christianity is a religion of mind control. I feel this way about other religions as well.


I agree with what I've omitted.

I think that a good portion of people involved in religion aren't merely trying to control the minds of others. I feel that they actually believe everything that they are telling others about Jesus. I think it is more about societal control than mind control, personally, especially in the case of Christianity.

It comes back to whether or not the tenants of Christianity point toward War as the final solution for all detractors of their religion. I feel that it does.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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Not to be off topic, but I'm curious as to how the responses pan out, especially of the Christain crowd.

I mean, after all, this entire book is all "God's word," and the entire thing is absolute truth, right? Or is it going to be the typical "you are cherry-picking passages out of context," parable we all here.

If anything, in my opinion of course, this just goes to show the non-divinity (I'm not sure if that's a word, oh well) of The Bible and any holy book as far as I'm concerned. More passages that conflict one another, go absolutely against what a God should remotely stand for, ridiculous leaps of logic, such as : In a Universe that could be part of a Multiverse that as far as we know is infinite; yet God sends his only son to save us? And how far have we come? Well, lets see. Children still being bombed by drones, yet religious people will justify that in someway; "God works in mysterious ways," or the infamous "It's human free will."

But God is omnipotent and omniscient?

Furthermore, who the hell is anyone to claim outright what is God's word and how in the hell did they gain the insight as to understand God's will? Seriously, if I came out and told people that I hear God in my head and he's telling me his will and its absolute truth, would you drop to your knees and praise Jesus Christ?

Then what's the point of doing it to a book, that's been translated/written by men, that most followers haven't read, and is more times than not paraphrased in order to subjugate some form of hatred, bigotry, sexism, or racism.

And the rebuttle; "Hate the sin, love the sinner." Who are you to judge what is and what is not a sin? It should come from an ethical and sensible standpoint, not a subjective and honestly ridiculous fable that holds absolutely no - NO shred of evidence.

Sorry for kind of going off on my own rant OP, and I'm certainly not attacking your post because I agree with it (although I'm not too familiar with scripture so the thread itself is slightly ambiguous to me). I'd like to see the responses, though, to the questions presented. Logical. Sensible. Not some fluffy lovey-dovey accept Jesus into your heart and be born again blah blah.

Unfortunately, I feel as if that is wishful thinking and the replies probably will be stagnat.

As House said, "If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people."



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 




I think that a good portion of people involved in religion aren't merely trying to control the minds of others.

The religion itself is supported and meant to be believed as infallible. It's the Creator's thoughts and wishes. Questioning its validity is not the aim or encouraged in religion. It's literally the opposite of being inquisitive and critical. Counter to scientific thinking. Closed to inquiry and therefore tightly controlled. If a good portion of people involved in religion are spreading this mentality than I don't see how it's not mind control (whether they are directly aware or not).


I feel that they actually believe everything that they are telling others about Jesus.

I have mixed opinions on that



I think it is more about societal control than mind control

How would you describe the difference?


It comes back to whether or not the tenants of Christianity point toward War as the final solution for all detractors of their religion. I feel that it does.

Right I guess I was asking if you meant that (Bible) or all aspects of the religion's impact today.

In this case I for one completely agree with your analysis. The Bible is rife with it. "God" more often than not commands death or violence to be acted out by the faithful. The OT especially. I made a list once! It was looong.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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Is Christianity a Religion of War?


Jesus has the answer for this -


But those my enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring here, and slay them before me.


Problem solved I think



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally I think it was more of a moral compass blue print on how the public could avoid being manipulated by government. Self protecting in the same way making its followers oppose any opposing views and leaving a sort of back up plan if they were over powered.

Governments who adopted the religion have done typical actions expected but in the churches name. Not wholly opposed by the church.


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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I think it is more about societal control than mind control

How would you describe the difference?


I don't think the modern incarnation of Christianity concerns itself with conversion as much as previous incarnations have. Conversion is the tool I most often associate with Mind Control, trying to control your mind (and your offspring's minds) through indoctrination. Modern Christianity is more about controlling -deeds-, as can be seen with the acceptance of homosexuality, for example. No longer is a large portion of Christianity concerning itself wit whether or not homosexuality is a sin, they are more opposed to it's larger place in society at large, as evidenced with the large Christian (Mormon.. whom are also Christians) backing of Prop 8 in California.

(To any who might answer, I'm not interested in this getting off topic into homosexuality and whether or not it is a sin. There are many other threads for that, I merely used it as an example in this post.)
edit on 13-7-2013 by MichaelPMaccabee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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All religions are religions of war. That's what religions are based on. Having beliefs that are worthy of fighting about. Making those who believe differently seem to be wrong. Most of the fighting and wars in the world are, in the bottom line, about religion.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Is Christianity a Religion of War?


Yes.

Is Christianity a Religion of Peace?

Yes, that too.

Christianity is like a jewel with many facets.

Which facet you focus on says a lot about you.


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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Is Christianity a Religion of War?


Yes.

Is Christianity a Religion of Peace?

Yes, that too.

Christianity is like a jewel with many facets.

Which facet you focus on says a lot about you.


You made that argument several times in the other thread, but didn't back it up with anything scriptural. From what I have been able to come up with, Jesus only looks at his own flock as deserving of peace. Are there passages that I have missed that say something different?



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:18 PM
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I'd love to take the time to answer this from a Christian, and Biblical, perspective.
I don't have that time right now, but in essence, my answer will be this:

Yes... and no.
While the verses you've quoted are absolutely true, they're not the whole picture - just a part of it... and if you take the entirety of Scripture (particularly, in this case, the New Testament, as what you're talking about is predominantly the evangelistic Christianity of the apostles) you'll find that the picture is indeed broader than this.

The answer, then, is one of context.

Yes, there is an element to which Christianity discusses war. Obviously these things are yet to come, as Jesus told us they would (Matthew 24, Revelation, Ezekiel 38, Psalm 83). The time immediately prior to Jesus' return (termed in Scripture as 'The Last Day', 'That Great Day', 'That Day', 'The time of Jacob's Trouble', 'The Tribulation', 'The Great Tribulation', etc.) will be characterised by these things... "wars and rumours of wars", and so on... not only that, but upon Christ's return, there will be a war in which Christ Himself fights the forces of the Beast (the devil), the False Prophet and the Antichrist. So, in that respect, you're absolutely correct.

What you've missed, though, is the fact that these things are yet future. You've listed Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy in your OP, and this is key to understanding these things. We are not yet in the final week of Daniel's prophecy, and there is a gap between the 69th week and the 70th. We are now in that gap. ...what does that gap represent? Grace.

When Jesus sent his apostles into the world, he didn't send them out to declare war. He sent them out to "make disciples... and baptize... in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". This is why Scripture says that "God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance".

Someone has quoted above a passage that describes the wedding feast of the King's Son (in this parable, the king's son is obvious, but those invited to the feast are Israel). Those invited do not arrive at the feast; they reject the King's Son and ignore the wedding feast - so God calls upon his servants to go out into the streets and invite anyone and everyone they can get their hands on.

This is the period of history we are in.
The time will come when those who have rejected the King's invitation will be judged. Scripture is clear on that... but for now, it's all about grace. Time is short, though, and God's grace is not greater than God's righteousness, not greater than His sense of justice. ...so, as in all things with God, balance. Grace for now, judgement later.

I hope that explains a few things.


Oh, and as a side note... you should also define what you mean by "peace".
...not peace itself, so much, but... peace for whom?

It's important to bear in mind that the majority of Scripture is centered on Israel. If we're talking about peace in Israel, well... that's pretty simple - there hasn't been peace there in 2000 years.

...if we're talking about worldwide peace... well, we haven't had that either.

...if you're talking about small pockets of non-conflict... well, we've had that, sure. ...though what the Bible talks about is far more than just non-conflict. The verses you've quoted in Isaiah go further, talking about those who have died before reaching 100 being considered tragic, etc. - the peace God brings is more than mere non-conflict... and ultimately is about the reconciliation of God and man, above all else.
edit on 13-7-2013 by Awen24 because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by Awen24
...
...
...
...
...

This is the period of history we are in.
The time will come when those who have rejected the King's invitation will be judged. Scripture is clear on that... but for now, it's all about grace. Time is short, though, and God's grace is not greater than God's righteousness, not greater than His sense of justice. ...so, as in all things with God, balance. Grace for now, judgement later.

I hope that explains a few things.


So we are in the period of history before Jesus the Warrior comes from heaven with an army to vanquish those that have not been converted?

All Christians want Jesus to return.
Jesus can't return unless the world is at war.
Do all Christians want the world to be at war so Jesus will return?
edit on 13-7-2013 by MichaelPMaccabee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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You can see it that way if you like.
Christians want Christ to return to bring about justice and a return to peace.
The world will find its way to near destruction before this happens. Yes I want that, my reasons are so peace can reign under Jesus

Is it a religion of war? Hardly. and your view that it is is near sighted. Christ's return ends all conflict once and for all.
The world will play out its role and many will die because humanity is corrupt, Christ will return and bring peace. With out Christ there is no peace.

Understand that word justice, its not war, its judgement.

Was Saddam murdered or executed. The wars will be a judgement.

But hey you believe what you like. Christ never condoned violence by Christians towards any one, wont .
edit on 13-7-2013 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by borntowatch
You can see it that way if you like.
Christians want Christ to return to bring about justice and a return to peace.
The world will find its way to near destruction before this happens. Yes I want that, my reasons are so peace can reign under Jesus

Is it a religion of war? Hardly. and your view that it is is near sighted. Christ's return ends all conflict once and for all.
The world will play out its role and many will die because humanity is corrupt, Christ will return and bring peace. With out Christ there is no peace.



Just so I am clear on your postion; You are a Christian that wants humanity to come to the brink of destruction so that Jesus can return and save you because you feel that humanity cannot attain peace without the intervention of Jesus.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by ChristianJihad



Is Christianity a Religion of War?


Jesus has the answer for this -


But those my enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring here, and slay them before me.


Problem solved I think


And this quote comes from where?


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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by ChristianJihad



Is Christianity a Religion of War?


Jesus has the answer for this -


But those my enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring here, and slay them before me.


Problem solved I think


And this quote comes from where?


It's Luke 19:27.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by borntowatch
You can see it that way if you like.
Christians want Christ to return to bring about justice and a return to peace.
The world will find its way to near destruction before this happens. Yes I want that, my reasons are so peace can reign under Jesus

Is it a religion of war? Hardly. and your view that it is is near sighted. Christ's return ends all conflict once and for all.
The world will play out its role and many will die because humanity is corrupt, Christ will return and bring peace. With out Christ there is no peace.



Just so I am clear on your postion; You are a Christian that wants humanity to come to the brink of destruction so that Jesus can return and save you because you feel that humanity cannot attain peace without the intervention of Jesus.


Just so we are clear.
I want people to live together in peace and love, if humanity cant do this on their own then I welcome a God who can orchestrate it for us

Its blatantly clear we as humanity, me included, cant live in peace, not just war but in our every day lives.So I am praying for righteous judgement. mercy and grace

Just so we are all clear, do you deny this world is over run with evil?



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by ChristianJihad



Is Christianity a Religion of War?


Jesus has the answer for this -


But those my enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring here, and slay them before me.


Problem solved I think


And this quote comes from where?



It's Luke 19:27.


Do you know what a parable is, do you understand the context
Does not even the US government recognise that treason is a crime.

If you dont want the King to be your king you will be banished from life. Its that simple, you choose.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Ok, just making sure
.





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