The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: BotheLumberJack

Aye forgotten books is amazing , even the free books are good !

some really good stuff in there for sure

a reply to: sapien82

I think those aliens too often seek to place their own values on what humans may look like. Actually, gods do the same. That's why both aliens and gods come here admonishing and demoting humans. Or worse: giving them tablets of testimony and urging them to obey the laws they wish humans to obey. A classic. It is called hegemony.

@Sigrun:

I don't think anything that undermines the mental and/or physical well being of an individual or group, anything that degrades functional capacity is just something typical of Saturn. I think all gods do that, it is in their godlike nature to ask others to obey and sing praises to them. Talking about good gods versus evil ones is a distraction to tackle the real question: why are there some people who call themselves gods and want to be obeyed? I mean, what is the mental process that leads someone to believe in gods? The origin of religions is a mystery to me or, to be more precise, the will to obey.

@boozo:

Yes, tha's exactly what I think. Now, concerning the obelisks of old I never heard of them. Can you explain to me anything about those obelisks, please?

a reply to: Direne

A Saturnine response tinged with Anti-Jovian sentiment is hardly going to invalidate my position, with regards to obedience and establishment of hierarchy through loyalty and recognition of status that only relates to Jupiter, there are plenty of Deities that don't care what you think at all.

The mental process that causes people to believe in Gods is observation, if you behave in a Saturnine manner i am likely to continue believing in that principle, if you obey my direction and desist i will compose a Hymn to Jupiter, that's how it works, but as i mentioned earlier i don't assume shared qualities.

a reply to: Sigrun

They perceive the birth of Zarathustra to be a turning point in world history, which is divided into the periods before and after Zarathustra. As soon as Zarathustra is born, Evil, embodied by Aŋra Mainiiu and his minions, the daēuuas, starts to withdraw from the surface of the earth and hide underground. Its eventual complete removal is the culmination and end (frašō.kərəti‐) of world history.

Sigrun, I'm currently reading a book from where I took that paragraph above. The book is this one:

The Wiley Blackwell Companion to Zoroastrianism,
Edited by Michael Stausberg and Yuhan Sohrab‐Dinshaw Vevaina with the assistance of Anna Tessmann.

My question is whether you know of any religion which considers good to come from below the ground surface and evil coming from the sky, for it seems to me that most religions consider darkness and the underground as evil.

a reply to: Direne

Not really in terms of evil coming from the sky, most religions do associate the underworld with death and dark forces but the Indo-Europeans and Caucasians had a generally positive outlook on the underworld Deities in the earliest records, this much later translated into the tradition of Faeries. It was the case that the fates were understood to generate both good and evil, in terms of the spiritual/planetary archetypes, the Anatolian Heptad.

The Hurrian Queen of the Underworld in charge of all this was Allani correspondent to Hittite Arinna the Sun Goddess of the Underworld, the Mesopotamians understood her as Eres-Kigal/Queen of Eres, were the shrine Eres was located at the City of Uruk the Semitic name for which was Eresh, the Greeks named her Eris the Romans Discordia.

The basis for potential discord is the generation of choice, the evil option as well as the good, with the Queen of the Underworld then it is always a case of choose wisely or face the consequences, for that reason Allani was often paired with Ishara the Goddess of critical thinking and rejection of the corrupt.

a reply to: Sigrun

Yes, Sigrun, the basis for potential discord is the generation of choice. Decision making is always a stressing activity up to the point that modern civilisation tends to delegate complex decisions to machines and AI, not to mention the increasingly lack of critical thinking and the full acceptance of mere opinions as truths, without ever taking the time to minimally reflect about facts.

I think Zoroastrianism may be of interest for our discussion as it is considered the first monotheistic religion, though it is also a religion which focuses on dualities, such as heaven and hell, a view that passed down onto Judaism and Christianity, among many other religions. It is also an interesting religion in that it posits that the fate of the human soul depends on its store of thoughts, words and deeds. Words are too way important for Zoroastrianism and it considers them as seeds stored in the soul.

This would make of the soul a seed house in a way, and it would explain why the soul is mainly targeted by both good and evil forces.

a reply to: Direne

To a considerable extent of course our decision making is influenced by external factors, cultural upbringing and peer group pressure, everybody is exerting influence upon it, 99% of the posts on this forum are concerned with influencing the decision making of others, but still the choice remains ours.

The same factors relate to Zoroastrianism and the great meta-physical divide, the internalized process is conceptually Feminine and generated from ultimate darkness, whereas the externalized is the Masculine and towards the ever increasing light, thus also subjectivity and objectivity, it had been the case that the Sun within the underworld was conceptualized as Feminine yet when it emerged from within it became Masculine.

As discussed it had been realized that the Sun and Planets did not in fact enter into the Earth towards regeneration, that in fact the Suns external light was a constant, and thus the internal realm became associated with foolishness and lies and the journey though the underworld towards rebirth a ridiculous notion, it was the Atenists that first held such views.

The emphasis then becomes on the externalized, Masculine, and Universally objective truth, we call this science, the only source of this is also externalized through Angelic intermediaries of those same Celestial forces, upon supposed receipt of such we call it genius.

It's very likely in my opinion Zoroastrianism was influenced by Judaism, there is a school of thought considers such, a distrust towards the Earth develops and the potential dark forces contained therein, Apocalyptic thought considers it's destruction and the creation of a new one a sentiment also shared by Gnostic Dualism, a supposed triumph of objectivity were the baby is thrown out with the bathwater, the whole thing just another of Kumarbi's mad schemes to destroy Tessub and his relationship to the internal otherwise known as the infernal...

I will tell of Tessub, the great lord of Kummi. I will praise the young woman Allani at the gates of the Netherworld. In addition to them I will speak of the young woman Ishara, a skilled goddess, famous for her wisdom.

Tessub and Suwaliyat went down to the Dark Netherworld, and Allani girded herself for work. She goes back and forth in front of Tessub, and Allani made a fine feast at the gates of the Netherworld.

A question then of how the internal can influence the external.

a reply to: Sigrun

It is the fifth month, the month of the Hidden Sun, Itu ìlamu, also called Er-me. Alalu rules in Heaven during this month, while Allani (Aelannyn) makes a fine feast at the gates of the Netherworld. That's why it is the month of the Hidden Sun, Sigrun, because we celebrate that Aelannyn is at the gates of the Netherworld while we dance here in Urkesh.

For the Egyptians the name of this place is Sngr (Shanagar); for Kassites and Hittites Ša-an-har-ra, Ša-an-ha-ar, for
Semitic peoples, Shinar. For us, Elyam.


It's been a pleasure discussing with you. Now I must leave. Wish peace to you and yours.

a reply to: Sigrun

either of you know why they practiced the death ritual of the tower of silence, why was it against their religion to bury bodies instead letting them rot in the open sun with carrion in the tower of silence, why did they object and forbid the burial of bodies ?

a reply to: sapien82

The idea of excarnation is that the body is taken up into the air in order to unite with El-lil, the Lord of the wind, in reality this simply leads to being scattered across the land as bird droppings, a variant is the funeral pyre were one ascends in the skies as smoke in effect becoming an airborne pollutant.



a reply to: Direne

El-Yam was easily defeated, but the line of succession with regards to the Hesiod Theogony always held that the successor was first the cup-bearer of his precedent, in that sense Allani serving Tessub his drinking cup involved the understanding that the line of succession would proceed thus, something of a poison chalice, a transference of authority from the Age of Jupiter.

Although some have tried to also draw a connection between Yamm and the Greek goddess of chaos, Eris, there are significant differences in motivation and action in that Eris is calculating and crafty in her desire to turn order upside down and her actions are subtle while Yamm seems entirely motivated by rage, his actions are apparent and he makes no secret of his contempt for the other gods and their puny creations, humans.

Yammy

C'mon back, Kantzveldt.

We can fix all of this.

C'mon back.

Let's go now.

a reply to: Direne

I truly have to commend you on your strong stank.

I have paperbacks from long-extinct American used-bookstores that reek of your posts.

How do you do that?

If I want to smell you I can open up, for instance, A Dweller On Two Planets, which I keep around, because, well, I'm weird like that.

What's you're excuse?

a reply to: Godric

You could open up a copy of Bacon's New Atlantis and see the same thing also;

Ye shall understand (my dear friends) that amongst the excellent acts of that king, one above all hath the pre-eminence. It was the erection and institution of an Order or Society, which we call Salomon's House; the noblest foundation (as we think) that ever was upon the earth; and the lanthorn of this kingdom. And for the country of Bensalem, this man would make no end of commending it; being desirous, by tradition among the Jews there, to have it believed that the people thereof were of the generations of Abraham, by another son, whom they call Nachoran; and that Moses by a secret Cabala ordained the Laws of Bensalem which they now use.

We have also, as you must think, novices and apprentices, that the succession of the former employed men do not fail; besides, a great number of servants and attendants, men and women. And this we do also: we have consultations, which of the inventions and experiences which we have discovered shall be published, and which not: and take all an oath of secrecy, for the concealing of those which we think fit to keep secret: though some of those we do reveal sometimes to the state and some not

New Atlantis

Mere gatekeepers that create false history in order to prevent deeper enquiry into actual and thus perpetuate their own erroneous world view, a distortion of narrative, here's another example of looking to an earlier version in this case with regards to the Cain and Abel narrative, much beloved of the biblical mystagogues and their tales of Shinar, it suggests in all things there is a wrong and right approach, the gates of Horn and Ivory.

Appu and his two Sons

a reply to: Sigrun

...see the same thing also;

Smell

...not "See".

K? K?

________________________________

Anyways. WTF?!?

How are you?

As you know, I can't comm IM yet.

________________________________

You apparently speak for the FL.com collective now.

Am I reading that correctly? Or Wrongly?

P.S. # You, Direne.

a reply to: Godric


What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet; So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd, Retain that dear perfection which he owes Without that title.

Today, 0 degrees Aries, that magical divide between the old yearly cycle and the new, between the Feminine and the Masculine, Inanna/Pisces-Anunitum on the one side Dumuzid/Aries on the other, and hopefully continuity somehow achieved.

Astral Dumuzi

Brother Wrong is no concern of mine.

a reply to: Direne


Long time Direne, I hope you are well. Your as well spoken as ever too! Its nice to see you around and about here.

a reply to: Sigrun

Just come back to the fold, Sigrun.

That's a good name.

C'mon now.

Those weird Spanish #ers? Feels good to be included. Right?

They are so hot, and #.

And what with Borges? Who can resist that?

Yet you are ATS.

*Sniff*

a reply to: Godric

Sic 'em, G.

a reply to: The GUT

I'm on their 6.

a reply to: Godric

I'm no little Black Sheep...Bah!

And there are sheep other than ATS that required rounding up.