The Issue of Misandry – 21st Century Social Conspiracy

You bring up some very interesting viewpoints I have never thought of or noticed. Yes, I have noticed that there is a certain brand of Feminism that goes way beyond woman-empowerment into sheer man-hatred, but I havent picked up upon all the nuanches in society. Good work.

Some see life as a Pendulum and where there was one extreme (hatred and mistreatment of women), it eventually swings to the other extreme. The problem begins when the extreme becomes mainstream.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Not having a care for man and misandry are completely different.

WHAT?

Misandry /mɪˈsændri/ is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex).

en.wikipedia.org...

What would your definition be?

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

[Are you kidding me? That's like saying she has the right to sue him if she does fall pregnant accidently!

But she could. A women, could get pregnant, NOT tell the man about it, until the kid was 5 or 10 and then sue him and bring him to court for past child support.

You think that's ok?

Not at all! Do you have ANY IDEA how much the female body goes through and the last implications that can occur when a women goes through 9 months of pregnancy and labour!?

That's just a fact of life, it doesn't make the women's opinion of the value of a human life, any more important than a man's.

And im sure if women were forcing men to get vasectomies you'd have a problem with that? Yet you seem perfectly at ease for men to start dictating to women what's going on with their reproductive organs!

Who said anything about dictating? Did I say that men should have the final say in this process? NO, I said his opinion and his argument matters as much, which means 50%.

As for vasectomies, many men have the procedure done instead of the women they are with, because of how invasive a hysterectomy is. That's just common sense. Nothing to do with abortion, please leave your straw men at the door.

The entire idea that a man has legal rights over an unborn baby is ABSURD.

Not when it's my baby. I have just as much claim to ownership over my seed as a women does. I am JUST as important as a parent as my counterpart is.

those in favour completely disregard the fact that the mother is a human being and she has rights over her own body.

Of course she does, but she doesn't have the right over the life of child that she made with somebody else.

Again, use your straw man to claim that I wish for men to have CONTROL over abortion, this is not true and it's intellectually dishonest for you to use that against anybody who hasn't made that claim.

What I suggest is that a man's opinion's, when the life of HIS child is at stake, matters.

ETA: SOrry about this post, I will remain on topic after wards. Please send me your reply via PM

~Tenth

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc


Yes well the reason they cant do that is because its wrong.

Men simply dont have rights on the abortion issue, that's not misandry, that's because 9 months of pregnancy involves the woman and not the man.

Men shouldnt be calling the shots if they aint carrying the baby.

It shouldnt even up for debate.

I disagree. My brother was engaged to be married, and he and his fiancée decided to get the baby started right away. At the last moment she got cold feet, called off the marriage and aborted the baby.

That is just BS. She had made a choice once, and if she changed her mind, then she could have given up custody and let him keep it. But the way we make men pay child support, holding them responsible for their choice of act, it is not fair that a woman is NOT responsible for her choices of act! If she chose to be pregnant, she should have to accept the responsibilities for that choice.

This is not the thread for this topic of debate so i will be private messaging you my reply.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


If you want to debate the rights of men on unborn children make a thread about it, im not gonna get sidelined discussing abortion issues, i shouldnt have to tell you this tbh :/

Im sorry that reply was out of order, i need a time out from this thread.

(I broke this into two posts since it wouldn't fit in one)

Personally I'm less concerned with governmental policy and law regarding this issue than I am the opinion and actions of society at large. I remember when I was in the 5th or 6th grade this girl was going around hitting boys on the head with texbooks. This girl would always refer to the boys in the class as "males" with a disgusted tone. How on earth a girl this young got this crap in her head I have no idea (I suspect a militant feminist single mother) but that's what happened. Someone told the teacher, and the (female) teacher's response? "He's a boy so he probably deserved it"

How do you think that makes a 6th grade boy feel to hear that? From an authority figure such as a teacher saying something like that, and having your female peers physically assault you due to your gender. We always talk about the self esteem of young girls, what about young boys? What does that do for your self esteem to be assaulted for you gender, then have the authority figure support the person assaulting you?

This scene has played out over the years with men being the perpetrators of such acts. Now it's changing, women are doing it. They think because their gender has gone through this for so long, now it's their time to victimize the other size. Same thing as race relations, after so long of being treated poorly, minorities don't want equality, they want revenge. Even though most of the people with this mentality were never alive to see or experience the atrocities they use as ammunition against their racial opponents.

If ANYTHING remotely similar would have happened like that, but with the gender roles reversed, we probably would have seen some huge court case or lawsuit due to the issue.

That's why I'm more concerned with society's attitude. I think it's likely that some serious emotional or other issues could be caused in young boys which later manifest in more serious ways. Men tend to internalize things and let it fester inside them as long as possible, having it ground into your mind from a young age that not only are you dumb, weak, emotionally stunted, violent, a sexual predator simply for having a penis, but you also are the bad guy who has victimized the opposite gender, and you should feel bad about it.

People's minds are kind of like brewing beer. You put the work in at the beginning, you let it ferment, and something comes out at the end. With a person's mind, as a child the work and ingredients for a well adjusted adult are added to the child's mind. After time the child's mind grow's into that of an adult, and the way it grew depended on the ingredients and conditions you started it out in. It's a long process. You can't see issues manifest immediately, just like if you screw up brewing or get a beer infection it doesn't manifest immediately.

Putting these negative self-image ideas into young boys heads will not make them well adjusted adults. They might have issues of low self esteem and feel inadequate after years of programming, turning into sad useless adults. Or they go the other way and develop a deep seeded hatred of women and go on to commit violence against them.

I'm probably the least sexist guy out there. I treat all people the same from whatever gender (well, if you are a pretty lady I'll treat you a bit differently if I'm hitting on you, obviously) but BECAUSE I treat all people the same that's seen as sexism. The push for women's equality is not about equality, it's about tearing down men and becoming the polar opposite of 1950's culture, where women are dominate and victimize men.

Women want equality. Well, guess what, sometimes when guys get pissed at each other they punch each other. Is that good? Well... maybe not. But it is what it is. If two guys get in a fight and bloody each other up, nobody sits there and says " oh those poor guys)

If a man and woman were fighting and the guy bloodied the woman up, he is an evil evil man and she is a poor victim.

Why the double standard? If guys get in fights and nobody is evil, why is a man evil if he fights with a woman? Because women want the protection of being the fair gender. They don't want to be treated like men, because they KNOW men are treated like chit.

I totally agree with the OP that there are many things that show men as being stupid brutes, or many times stupid wimps too, while the women are showed as smart, sexy, strong people. This is not up for debate, try to think of a popular American show that shows all the women as being dumb bimbos (that isn't some tricky way to get masturbating material on TV) and the men as the smart strong ones of the relationship. I can't think of a single one that shows such a gap in the "worth" of the person they are representing.

What I don't really agree with (or at least I've yet to be convinced of) is that this is all some sort of organized plot by the Illuminati or whatever else. I'm open to the idea of there being a (or various) cabals of rich wealthy people trying to change society and the country for their own goals, just not yet convinced on the scale of this operation. I'm thinking the super wealthy and powerful are too greedy and doublecrossing that they would never be able to cooperate with each other at any large scale.

It's very true that men are at a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to parental rights and what not. Courts give children to women like they were giving out candy. I believe this is simply a holdover from the "old days" when women were the child care experts and men were the support staff basically. So there is definitely still the idea in people's heads that women are better parents than men. That may change (hopefully) as time goes on and we will see fair action taken in court custody cases.

TV shows with dumb men and smart women, again I totally agree and understand, I just think the cause is different. Again, I think is is an effect from the "old ways" in the sense that when men were always dominate in older TV shows, now that things in society have changed it's represented in TV shows. When TV programs first starting putting women into roles of power and respect I'm sure it was welcomed by women and by many men that were used to seeing the same old thing all the time. Like any business they continue to sell shows which they thing will sell, and they think that people still like seeing dumb weak men and smart strong women.

BOTH sexes like those shows, women like them because they show strong smart women dominating their husbands. Men like to watch them because they can relate to being dominated by their wife. It works out well for production companies. I just don't think some cabal is pushing these shows, I think they are what works for their purpose.

reply to post by James1982


The only US shows that I have been known to watch are The Big Bang Theory, which contradicts your point somewhat...although, given, both sexes display their own brand of buffoonery...How I met your Mother...again, reasonably equal in it's own way...various Sci-Fi...good and strong with both sexes usually...

...so I am wondering, perhaps this is more to do with viewing choices, rather than a problem that exists across the board...

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
reply to post by James1982

 

The only US shows that I have been known to watch are The Big Bang Theory, which contradicts your point somewhat...although, given, both sexes display their own brand of buffoonery...How I met your Mother...again, reasonably equal in it's own way...various Sci-Fi...good and strong with both sexes usually...

...so I am wondering, perhaps this is more to do with viewing choices, rather than a problem that exists across the board...

I'm sure there are some exceptions but in general I think it's fairly accurate. On a show like big bang theory they all act ridiculous don't they? Only thing I have seen of that show is commercials and a few minutes time watching the show while others were watching it.

My viewing preferences for TV didn't give me the idea, since I mainly watch stuff on History, Science channel, Link, Current, AMC etc. I'm not really into sitcoms or whatever they call those types of shows these days. I'm basing the observation on what's popular as a whole, because if I know about a show like that, it's because it's popular enough that it's hard to avoid knowing about if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
reply to post by James1982

 

The only US shows that I have been known to watch are The Big Bang Theory, which contradicts your point somewhat...although, given, both sexes display their own brand of buffoonery...How I met your Mother...again, reasonably equal in it's own way...various Sci-Fi...good and strong with both sexes usually...

...so I am wondering, perhaps this is more to do with viewing choices, rather than a problem that exists across the board...

I'm sure there are some exceptions but in general I think it's fairly accurate. On a show like big bang theory they all act ridiculous don't they?

Doesn't that apply to the majority of the shows in question though? Aren't we mainly discussing comedy programmes? Doesn't comedy usually exaggerate whatever reality it is portraying?

I too mainly watch documentaries, which certainly in the UK, are presented in equal measure by male and female academics. And what about news shows, given what I have seen on this site, most US news programming seems to use women in rather revealing clothing...seems to me, that if the US media is disrespecting of it's male viewers, it is more in the sense that they think you more easily distracted by the sight of a shapely thigh and well-endowed cleavage.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I used sitcoms because they are the most blatant in their attempts at doing so, but it's frequent in many different programs. Even reality television seeks to skew the imagine of men. ( although it's done to women in this respect too, look at shows like Teen Mom for example, that's just exploitation.)

If you want a good idea of what feminism is turning into, go take a look at Jezebel and it's forums. Go look at the conversations where men attempted to bring up these subjects, you'll see the vitriol I'm talking about. It's also prevalent on Tumblr as well.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

I used sitcoms because they are the most blatant in their attempts at doing so, but it's frequent in many different programs. Even reality television seeks to skew the imagine of men. ( although it's done to women in this respect too, look at shows like Teen Mom for example, that's just exploitation.)

If you want a good idea of what feminism is turning into, go take a look at Jezebel and it's forums. Go look at the conversations where men attempted to bring up these subjects, you'll see the vitriol I'm talking about. It's also prevalent on Tumblr as well.

~Tenth

Ah you see...this is where I exercise my power

I would much, much rather endure childbirth again than engage with any of the media you suggest.

I wonder, if enough people stopped watching the 'freak shows' whether the monkeys would stop performing...

Sure, you can stand around on here shouting 'don't feed the trolls'...but ya know, ya kind of have to extend that mentality to every aspect of your life. Know what I mean? Well, at least I do, that's the main thing

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Not having a care for man and misandry are completely different.

WHAT?

Misandry /mɪˈsændri/ is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex).

en.wikipedia.org...

What would your definition be?

I notice that the definition that you have cited doesn't include apathy, which is what "not having a care" means.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

So which is it, there is systematic cultural misandry, or men and women are equally represented in both the public and private sectors and within those two areas men and women have certain (mostly archaic) laws skewed either in favor of or against a certain demographic of your choosing?

It's neither. The point I was making is that women don't have it as bad as the media claims they do in 1st world nations like ours. Things are quickly becoming very equal in employment, political influence and wages.

So the argument that men still control everything isn't really true now is it? Which is why it's not a good argument to use against the idea that Misandry exists in our culture and nobody wants to talk about it.

~Tenth

What problems are the media claiming that women have that aren't actually true, and is saying that women have problems that they don't have a form of misandry?

Men control the media and politics. Why aren't there equal numbers of female CEOs? Why aren't there equal numbers of US Sentors? Why aren't there equal numbers of US Presidental candidates outside of primary season? (Or even inside primary season for that matter

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Very interesting viewpoint, and as a woman, I think that both men and women are equally important. They just might contribute to the family, or society in a different way. I think that in order for the relationship to work in either a working environment or family is that men and women must respect and support each other. I have been married for 21 years and still have a wonderful relationship because he is my best friend. I not only love him, but respect and support him. He is the same way toward me. If we try to say one is better than the other than their is going to be division and strife. Stop trying to rule and just accept men and women as different but equal, the good vives and contributions from this relationship is just going to be stronger.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Not having a care for man and misandry are completely different.

WHAT?

Misandry /mɪˈsændri/ is the dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men (i.e. the male sex).

en.wikipedia.org...

What would your definition be?

I notice that the definition that you have cited doesn't include apathy, which is what "not having a care" means.

That's it? Semantics? I expected better.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The whole thing is stupid. But its there alright, I never even used to believe in this thing well not exactly never really put it to thought. But ya there are lots of females out there who are just siting with hate and spite for males, feminists aside but they are mainly the ones. I even remember years ago, I went to a job interview for a new store that was opening in the area. So ya the one interviewing me was some female, and you could just feel the hate off her, I mean outwardly it was not showing but a blind man could feel it. Don't know what was really up, I do believe she was a feminist type, that or she could of just broken up with a boyfriend and seeing I was male and under her job status power she may have just been passing on her hatreds to me. But anyways never got the job or called back, but seriously some females you meet just exude hidden spite and hatred.

And the funny part is when # happens I seem to get the same type coming on to me or trying there control mojo tactics on me, over time you learn to deal with it or you know set up shields against it, projecting fear, uncertainty works wonders, once you know how there mind works its really easy to manipulate there thought's or projections into anything you want, sometimes all it takes is a little bit of acting a certain way. And considering that all they do when they have any sort of power is try to make life for dudes as hard as they can, lets just say I avoid them like the plague, because frankly that's what they are. Nothing good can come of it, or them.

The whole feminism thing is bull#, its just plain and simple about control even back when it was invented it was about that, you control women you control men and therefore society, basically a bunch of rich and powerful people got together and figured out that how to make more money and control society, in the end its premises are as simple as selling a coke product and having a female in a skimpy outfit in the commercial. They never really had it as hard as all that to begin with, no more and no less then there male counterpart, the upper class females really had no clue what most things such as poverty were. In fact they had it so much easier that they never thought a second time that it all just may be bull#. All they really had to do is say to them "oh nos put down your curling iron and look these men have been oppressing you, you could be working in a factory for peanuts and get your power back from them" Really not all that different then how they got women to smoke.

If it ever had a role to play in equality that time is long gone. Most females don't really have anywhere near as many problems as they like to make out they do, there own inhibitions are what is holding them down. In fact not only do they usually have more options our whole society is more catering to them, and to tell the truth it always really was in a lot of ways.

Some of them have had it so cushy and always had or could get men to do things for them that they have become completely disillusioned with certain realities, some just seem to be plain users, others just seem to be about power and control, and the rest just seem to be ignorant on the most basics of things, a great many seem to be incapable of some of the most basics of things, to which they create whole games whereby they get the guy to do them. Its freaking ridiculous, but it says a great deal about them and our society as well.

And no our society is not becoming more feminine in fact more females are becoming more masculine, and a lot of dudes are way more feminine then females. I do believe that the female gender has been coddled for so long that they have become completely incapable of certain things. Its like if you raised a kid and spoiled him by giving them everything, eventually you would have raised a brat. Now couple that with the fact that in society and even when they are little girls most of them seem to be able to do no wrong, or the fact that when they do its not only put to the wayside but completely ignored like it never happened.

And what you have is when they grow up there completely living in there own world were everything they do is right, and you have society there friends who watched the same shows like Dr Phil or the more sophisticated versions and shows, giving each other big heads, and couple that with the fact that every guy in there life will say the things they want to hear. Because well frankly if they say the things they don't want to hear it wont go anywhere, and no doubt they will have some other guy who will say the right things eventually. And given the fact that this behavior has not only been happening today but for generations even thousands of years ago in its own way. What you have is somebody who has the making of a little tyrant at every turn.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

Men control the media.

Bull#, there are lots of women in the media. And even if there not in the seat there ussually married to the guy that is.

The heads of almost every media conglomerate are male.

Ok that may be so. But behind them is a female or a bunch of females riding the gravy train all the way. Why do the work when you can get it all for free.

Men control politics.

Is that why the majority of it is catering to women? Again, how do men control politics? I personally have very little say in any of it and so does every other guy I know. The majority of politics like your other above examples have much more to do with social class and elitism then anything else. Unless you think your vote counts. Sure it counts, it just does not count for you or your interests.

The vast majority of seats of political power in the United States are held by a males.

OK that may be so, yet do you think all of those guys are some sort of monks living in monasteries. There usually is a female behind them all. In fact the some of the richest and most famous people who hold political seats only do so because there wife inherited a fortune like that John Kerry guy or that guy who was running for president last time John McCain. A majority of there fortunes they got from there wife's, last I checked John Kerry was the richest representative to hold political power in his area and considering they are all multimillionaires. Well, like I said, it works both ways. Even the ones who did not inherit there money well they have a woman or women who are riding that gravy train and likely as influential as any of them. But again that stuff is more about social class, big money and big business anything else. Of which there are female representatives of them.

If sexism isn't the reason for this bias in a society that is roughly 50-50 male to female, then what accounts for these discrepancies?

People are stupid, and its all bull# that's what. You can make them believe anything really, most females do not even get paid less then there male counterpart. # most males do not even get paid the same as other males working the same job and doing the same exact dam thing. It's all about control and cashing in, all while riding the gravy train, and females are easily controlled and coerced, thereby making the great majority of the populous easily deceived and controlled, lead by the nose down the wire to there ends.

All right, I've been thinking about this for a while. I have feminine traits too, but I'm not a pushover, that's ridiculous. As a feminist I believe in individuality. But hear me out.

Any guy who is trying to be feminine by laying around passive and not dealing with his problems and not communicating effectively is completely missing the point.

I am extremely honest. I am extremely straight-forward. However, I am also tactful (I try). In addition, if someone gives me advice, I listen because I know that it only helps. If someone gives me criticism, I listen, because I know that it only helps to get rid of false worldviews.

Anyone trying to prevent open communication and resolving issues is not creating a healthy feminine environment. What else... if someone is doing something in an unhealthy manner, I may mention it to them and explain how it would improve their objectives or whatnot...

And it's all about balance, I mean, sometimes you do just want to sit on the couch and zone out or whatever. But girls aren't going to like a guy who is a pushover, most of the time.

Boundaries are important for me as well... in addition to that, I will stand up for what I think to be a just situation, for example, we have a female visitor here and I had to tell her fairly sternly to treat our cats with more respect.