The Issue of Misandry – 21st Century Social Conspiracy

I'm really glad you started this thread. I've been sort of morbidly fascinated with the more fanatical feminist groups for the last few months, and also with so called Men's Rights Activists. Frankly, I think both groups probably started out with good intentions and have grown into something ugly.

I'm not personally offended by the doddering husband trope often seen in sitcoms and commercials. I genuinely find them funny, and they usually strike a chord with me. I've always had wonderful strong women around. Almost every woman I've dated has been a strong character, and I tend to make clumsy mistakes that they help me with. I get how some people are frustrated by it though. You mentioned that many commercials are aimed at men with the promise of attracting a mate. While I think that's true, women REALLY get the brunt of that type of advertising from what I've seen. The only thing I can really think of I've bought in the last year that's only purpose or appeal was attracting the other sex is cologne. If it were up to me I'd rarely bathe and rub gasoline behind my ears.

What I DO have a problem with are many of the laws on the books, especially in regards to child custody and divorce. They seem incredibly outdated. Back in the day, when a woman was a homemaker, had little to no education and the man was the sole bread winner I think the laws made a lot more sense. Today it seems like the courts award a ridiculous amount of money to the mother, and it's very hard for the father to get equal custody and nearly impossible for them to have custody full time. I think that's ridiculous.

I also take issue with the idea that if two people have drunken sex, and the woman later calls it rape when feelings of regret arise, it's very hard for the man to fight it. I absolutely understand that date rape happens, and often. I also am aware that there is a huge difference between being so drunk you can't say no, and being sloppy and overlooking the partners weight/general fugliness and sometimes tail or third eye. I firmly believe rape is an awful, awful crime and understand in many cases it goes completely unreported which I also think is a travesty. That being said, if you're a man you better make sure you know the girl your bringing home, because if she screams rape her word is going to hold more weight, which is a huge issue. Now this isn't always true, there are a lot of victim blamers, but I think the majority of folks are going to believe a man guilty before his day in court, and sadly during it.

One thing I've had some slight personal experience with and seen happen to friends is a complete disregard for men in domestic disputes. I had an ex that was acting like a complete nutter during a fight, she took a swing at me and I blocked it. She had a bruise on her wrist from it and had she been the vindictive sort could have easily had me thrown in jail. Who are the cops going to believe? The guy or the girl that weighs 100 pounds soaking wet? I've also seen friends families destroyed by this nonsense. It's not that I think women aren't more likely to be abused, it's that no matter what the guy is going to have a lot more 'splainin to do and people will almost always side with the woman.

I think it's very clear that we have some archaic laws concerning men and women. They need to change, and soon. I believe a TRUE feminist would support this.

Here is why I think feminism still has a place. Women DO get payed less. It's a fact. Women DO get raped and physically abused more often. Women are still treated like crap because they are women. I've seen all of this first hand, and I take absolutely no issue with anyone that stands up against this type of mistreatment. Women and men that strive for equality, which as you said is what we should all be striving for, are awesome in my book. I don't want to see any woman scared to speak up if she gets sexually harassed, passed over for promotions or treated like a "little lady". Treat my Mom like that in front of me and you're getting punched in the nose.

I hate this new age feminism. Everything is taboo, and if you make even the slightest joke about male/female differences you're as bad as a rapist. It's fine to joke about murder, but joke around and say my cell phone company really bent me over and you're a part of the 'rape culture' destroying women's lives. You can't have an honest discussion about some of the issues men are facing because women are so subjugated by the patriarchy and my penis means I'm privileged so I just can't understand any sort of discrimination. Being white and straight is apparently equally as abhorrent. Men bad girls good.

I have a ton of female friends and we just get along. We're equal. My Dr. is female. I trust her as much as a male Dr.

Good thread. My view is that feminism still has a place if its for actual equality and not man bashing. I love women. They're awesome.

I guess what I'm saying is guys who decide to become more "effeminate" by choosing traits they perceive women to have but they don't are completely missing the point.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

It was all done to prep us for Hillary Clinton as POTUS

reply to post by Skyfloating


Yeah there is man-hatred present in some sectors of society, especially liberal ones that I have been in, that actually prevent me from accomplishing much of anything or being myself while I'm there.

Not to mention in the dating scene - getting a girl to commit to showing up on one date, let alone a monogamous relationship is like pulling teeth - and I'm not the only one who has noticed.

Between these two things, many men in their 20's are put in a position where they literally cannot make much progress.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


S&F for sure!

Being a victim of this very thing through the court system, (corrupt court system I should say), where investigations NEVER ONCE took place of the accusations placed against my ex-wife for child neglect. I would agree that it does start in the home, always has and always will and I would agree with the poster above that stated children are being raised in day-cares and public schools and the very fabric of society is being completely manipulated and twisted.

Now, as a kid, my parents banned us from reading 'Cracked' magazine and said it was 'Communism' and said that if we were caught with the magazine, all hell would break out and we'd be grounded indefinitely till we left home.. they were not joking. So is the magazine 'Cracked' actually communism? I have no idea and to this day haven't read it only because I have no interest in such reading.

only gonna say this once..

the best way to bring down any nation is from within, this sounds off topic but let me assure you it's not. Tothetenth, your powers of observation are serving you well; I completely concur what you are saying.

I'll guess I'll continue to bring a point home, my wife fully understands of her husband having the last word in our home, as in there is no arguing days and days about how to spend money, critical things of the sort, if she wants to spend something at the store but knows it might be out of our budget, she asks if it's ok .. 90% of the time I don't really care, but, the 10% of the time.. depending on the amount I'll tell her no and give a reason.

The conversation of that subject is now dead, there is no .."but .. I thought that you thought.. blah, blah blah " of hours of arguing over something I put my foot down on because she KNOWS there's only 1 authority in the household and her husband has the last word period. She knows there a blessing in it for her.

From the dawn of time, MEN here always and forever shall be made to have the last decision in households and governments. Male children are being raised by women, and female children are being raised with the understanding of 'mom has the last word' and the cycle continues when they enter society for themselves because they have been in that environment for 18 years.

this is completely backwards to the order that was put in place for us and we keep thinking we receiving the blessings from thinking this is OK, but there will be none until WE straighten out.

oh yes.. and where does Communisum fit in, in a nutshell, is to twist and upset the balance of power

there seems to be an unconsidered economic consequence to feminism and the alleged attack on men
en.wikipedia.org...
and this grass eater/Herbivore men thing is seen as a big problem in Japan

put simply when men become disillusioned with women they go “Galt” and no longer produce as much for society as they have in the past when supporting a family



this Youtube channel explains the situation well
www.youtube.com...

you can also drop “men going their own way” and “where have all the men gone” into google for more on this situation

Originally posted by madmac5150
When was the last time that a man and potential future father was able to legally block a woman from aborting their unborn child? The woman has the option as a matter of "choice" to end the pregnancy. The father has no rights to save the unborn child's life, even though it "takes two to tango"... and he is the parent as well...

you've cleary never watched a woman go through pregnancy in close proximity. Pregnancy is brutal on the body, many women never get their body back after pregnancy, i was lucky cause my wife pretty much got back to smoking hottie in about a year, but its not just about physical appearance, there are all kinds of other issues like abdominal muscle problems in some women especially if they have had a C section, and the pregnancy itself creates a lot of internal pressure on the bowels and everything else that was in there prior to a baby taking up all the space, and the emotional strain can be very intense, as well as the mental strain. I watched my wife go for almost two years with the longest night sleep she ever had was 5 hours, if i hadnt been around (when iw asnt working which was all the time, nightshift and afternoons while finishing my studies) i dont know how she would have gotten trhough it if she had to do it on her own.

If a man decides after a child is born its pretty easy from a legal and societal perspective for him to just dissapear, same options do not apply to a mother, and adoption is not the same for a mother giving up her child as a man who walks out the door.

As men we dont pay the physical price for pregnancy and i think we should have a say of course, but not over a womans decision to go through a pregnancy. Maybe when we can grow babies in artificial wombs that may change the dynamics of the debate.

Originally posted by Komodo

I'll guess I'll continue to bring a point home, my wife fully understands of her husband having the last word in our home,
............. she KNOWS there's only 1 authority in the household and her husband has the last word period.

From the dawn of time, MEN here always and forever shall be made to have the last decision in households and governments.

this is completely backwards to the order that was put in place for us
oh yes.. and where does Communisum fit in, in a nutshell, is to twist and upset the balance of power

Balance??? You are not describing a balance, you are describing a huge imbalance.
As much as I feel repulsed by misandry, misogyny stirs the same within me.
Is it that impossible to imagine having a partner? Shared balanced power?
How do you see it as rational that a woman should have a man tell her how she can spend her own pay check?
I guess, if a man wants to carry that much power, he'd have to carry the responsibility that goes with it- like be in charge of all the housekeeping, cooking and child care, in order to be up on what is needed for the home and children when shopping.

But I am perplexed by your comment "the order that was put in place for us - what are you talking about? Who or what put an order in place for us?

I'm going on two decades in the legal field. As a lawyer representing both men and women in domestic cases, I can say that women perpetrate more abuse, both physically and emotionally, than men in all of the cases I have dealt with. Restraining orders (what an incredible joke), domestic violence, custody are all a huge uphill battle if you are a male. I'll sum it up -- in my opinion, based on many years experience -- men get much less "justice" ("justice" -- another joke) than a woman who only has to pretend she is afraid of her ex-, that he is a threat to her tender innocence.

Good example -- I was attempting to settle a custody dispute between my client and his ex before the proceeding began -- the judge said we should try to do so in the courtroom and that he would step out for a half hour. The courtroom was empty except for myself, my client and the ex. She said she wanted to have the kid on her birthday. My client stated in his usual low volume that he was reluctant to allow that because she has always abandoned the children (she had 4 other children from 4 separate fathers) on her birthday to go out and get drunk, early. She blustered, stumbled on her responses and before walking out claimed he was being abusive and threatening, and later told the clerk that she wanted a deputy to protect her while in court from him, that she was afraid of him. I'm sitting there more than a bit stunned at the blatant lies this woman is telling the judge. Of course, the judge positioned a deputy near her in the courtroom and believed her. Go figure.

Originally posted by racasan
there seems to be an unconsidered economic consequence to feminism and the alleged attack on men
en.wikipedia.org...
and this grass eater/Herbivore men thing is seen as a big problem in Japan

put simply when men become disillusioned with women they go “Galt” and no longer produce as much for society as they have in the past when supporting a family



this Youtube channel explains the situation well
www.youtube.com...

you can also drop “men going their own way” and “where have all the men gone” into google for more on this situation

edit on 27-6-2013 by racasan because: edit to add

So... Men have to be tailored to then or society stops going round?

Japan has a very sexist culture anyhow, they see their women as second class. I can only imagine that the men who reject companionship with a women are making a "statement" rather then just "lowering" themselves to their basic need for love.

And dont even mention those websites as sources, the guys on there are seriously nutty, no better than the hard-line feminists.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Society works because those that produce make more than they need and that extra supports those that don’t produce – right?

If a lot of men decide the game is so stacked against them that they no longer want play then they won’t have any reason to produce anything extra, the will just make what they need and nothing more* – right?

If the “men going their own way” “grass eater men” movement takes off and a large percentage of men no longer bother with women then western population and economy will decline and the more traditional populations will take over – islam for example – right?



*Men don’t consume nearly as much as women do – I read somewhere women consume about 80% of goods and services

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Society works because those that produce make more than they need and that extra supports those that don’t produce – right?

If a lot of men decide the game is so stacked against them that they no longer want play then they won’t have any reason to produce anything extra, the will just make what they need and nothing more* – right?

So... Only men produce? And only for the reason that they get what they want out of life? Am i getting this right?

If the “men going their own way” “grass eater men” movement takes off and a large percentage of men no longer bother with women then western population and economy will decline and the more traditional populations will take over – islam for example – right?

So, you're basically stating that men are naturally going to stop WANTING to reproduce because they've lost some sort of foothold in society? Those movements will never take off because as ive said, they are ran by nutters. They lack even basic comprehension of human interaction, all they see is themselves and their gender and immediately equate it with their own "right to power"
MGTOW "movement" is a joke.

*Men don’t consume nearly as much as women do – I read somewhere women consume about 80% of goods and services

So its women keeping the economy going then?

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Sorry I didn’t mean to imply a sex bias about who produces, but men do make up about half of the population so I think it’s fair to say they do produce some things and if men or anybody has no need to work harder than they need then why would they?


There are 3 ways to deal with women
1 - just be a pick up artist and have to long term commitment to one
2 - ignore them
3 – stick with the traditional father/husband roll

If option 3 is seen as no longer an option then what do you think will happen?



Drop “women control 80% of consumer spending” in google there are a lot of articles on this

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Sorry I didn’t mean to imply a sex bias about who produces, but men do make up about half of the population so I think it’s fair to say they do produce some things and if men or anybody has no need to work harder than they need then why would they?

So, what specificity would deter men from producing and contributing to society? It would seem to me that a man can be born into absolute poverty - and still seek to work, have intimate relationships - build a life so to speak.

There are 3 ways to deal with women
1 - just be a pick up artist and have to long term commitment to one
2 - ignore them
3 – stick with the traditional father/husband roll

1) Not all women let themselves get "picked up"
2) Not all women will spit their dummy out if a paticular man ignores her.
3) Not all women want their husbands/fathers telling them how to live their lives.

If option 3 is seen as no longer an option then what do you think will happen?

I think society will continue to move onwards and upwards, why? What do you think is going to happen?

Drop “women control 80% of consumer spending” in google there are a lot of articles on this

I am gonna do this tonight after i get home from voluntary work, sounds interesting

reply to post by SearchLightsInc



There are always consequences when things change – right?

Do you think there are going to be consequences for:
no fault divorce?
men losing access to their children and the court system being stacked against them?
men losing a big chunk of their stuff after a divorce? (particularly annoying if the divorce wasn’t his fault)
there also seems to be a problem with male education? (or the female learning style being more favoured in schools)


just to be clear – I have just recently become aware of the mgtow thing, but the implications of it seem huge – I don’t know how many men would have to go down this path before the already declining child birth rates in the west are even more effected

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

There are always consequences when things change – right?

Yes but not all of them are negative.

Do you think there are going to be consequences for:
no fault divorce?

No i dont. I think it will make separation easier.

men losing access to their children and the court system being stacked against them?

Men are not losing all access but having limited access. My older brother is currently in a custody battle and the mother is being a right b***h but he's hardly perfect, not by a long shot.

men losing a big chunk of their stuff after a divorce? (particularly annoying if the divorce wasn’t his fault)

Are women not subjected to equal laws whereby they loose half of their stuff to? In modern proceedings, i would argue that women have just as much to lose when divorce is on the cards.

there also seems to be a problem with male education? (or the female learning style being more favoured in schools)

Education needs to be looked at all round and i agree that a decline in practical education has acted against the interests of males who seem to learn better by doing. Rather than sitting in one place and absorbing information. I feel in the interests of all students, education should be more varied to stop people from getting bored.

just to be clear – I have just recently become aware of the mgtow thing, but the implications of it seem huge – I don’t know how many men would have to go down this path before the already declining child birth rates in the west are even more effected

Declining birth rates i thought were more do with the economy - Families requiring both parents to work, people staying in education, women chasing careers, people in their early 20's unable to move out of their parents house's to start a family etc?

I'll be frank with you, the mgtow site seems to be full of bigoted misogynists. I have yet to hear a valid argument that justifies their hate for women on general.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


S+F for a very interesting viewpoint.

One other thing I would like to add to what you have laid out in the OP is the new combat role of women in the military. That coward Panetta has now made it to where women can be tankers, artillery, infantry, etc. Which is in my view a very bad decision in the long run.

And yeah, I know more than a few guys whose spare time is totally dominated by their wives or girlfriends and its kinda sad really.

I've been married for 13 years and I realize the ins and outs of it by now. I let my wife go and do what she wants and she does the same for me and we trust each other so it works for us. Some of these girls I've seen (especially the young ones like 25 or less) won't cook or clean or anything while their man is at work. They want to be waited on and have everything done for them like spoiled little girls.

Also just look around you and see how many spoiled men and boys are around nowadays. Its like men who act like immature juveniles are revered and hard working serious fellas are seen as boring. I'm 35 and I know several guys that are 25 or so still living with their mom or girlfriend, still drinking, partying, blowing their money, no ambition, no sense of direction or purpose. Just breathing. Oxygen thieves is what I call them because they contribute nothing to themselves or their families.

Originally posted by racasan

Drop “women control 80% of consumer spending” in google there are a lot of articles on this

Here you go, you seem to have gotten it a bit confused:

Women’s consumption reflects that they generally earn less than men and have less
money at their disposal. They are more likely to buy the cheaper basic
essentials such as food, clothing and household articles.
Men both earn and spend more than women and their purchases tend towards more expensive
capital goods such as homes, cars and electronics.

While it is estimated that women make over 80% of consumer purchasing decisions, men spend over
80% of household income, although this is changing as women gain more
economic and marketplace power

So men are spending more of the household budget, and buying more toys, while women are buying more necessities for survival for the family with less money.

What is termed “women’s consumption” of household goods and
services is more often representative of family consumption as a whole.
Women are responsible for activities such as shopping, food preparation,
gift-buying, and disposal of used items. Women spend more than men on
consumer goods, including in the categories of hygiene, medical care and
health, clothing and shoes, books and culture. Men are more likely to eat out
than women, consume more alcohol and tobacco, and spend more on
transport and sport. A study in the United Kingdom shows that in families,
women are responsible for purchasing almost all household goods, while
men make more consumption decisions with regard to automobiles and
holidays

Interesting studies on female consumption-

In terms of resource impacts, women tend to leave a smaller ecological
footprint than men due to their more sustainable consumption patterns.
Sustainable consumption is using resources in a way that minimises harm to
the environment while supporting the well-being of people. Men’s lifestyles
and consumer patterns, whether they are rich or poor, tend to be more
resource-intensive and less sustainable than women’s (Johnsson-Latham,
2006). Impressing a more feminine footprint would result in a smaller
impact on the environment as well as better access to goods and services
that take into account the needs of both women and men.

The current trend towards being eco-conscientious is part of the feminine mentality.

In recent decades, a large share of economic growth in the OECD area
has come from employing more women. Since 1995, narrowing the gap
between male and female employment rates has accounted for half of the
increase in Europe’s overall employment rate and a quarter of annual
economic growth.

It is estimated that if female employment were raised to
the male rate, growth in gross domestic product (GDP) would be substantial,
particularly in countries such as Japan (CSR, 2007). Similarly, a study in the
United Kingdom found that the country could gain 2% of GDP by better
harnessing women’s skills (WWC, 2006).

The employment gender gap is most pronounced in countries such as Turkey,
Mexico, Italy and Greece, where less than 50% of women work. Female
employment rates are highest at over 70% in Iceland, Denmark, Norway,
Sweden and Switzerland.

So Japanese men cutting out on the economy might mean
more jobs for women,
and less electronics and cars coming out that country, and more sustainable production of things like food, clothing, and household goods?

www.oecd.org...

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Men tend to be physically stronger, while women tend to be more nurturing.

I emphatically disagree that women tend to be more nurturing. That is an archaic stereotype, a particularly irritating one, that has been promoted in mass media for as long as I can remember. In reality, however, it is rarely -- RARELY -- the case that women are the more nurturing, caring, or sensitive gender.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Good on you for having the courage and determination to bring this issue into the spotlight.

Be wary of certain Pro-Feminist members whom will attempt to downplay your facts and obfuscate your views.