"The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

reply to post by MidnightTide

Why in the hell is there a sanction "for beating" in the first place!!

You'd have to ask the Prophet that, or possibly the Caliph Abu Bakr who collected the various written records of Muhammad's recitation and compiled the Qu'ran from it. I suppose they were men of their time, and – like men in most times and places – thought it perfectly acceptable to beat their wives. Though it is said the Prophet never struck a woman.

The men in the video are modern Muslims, saddled with a holy book full of the same pre-civilised tripe that litters the Old Testament. Just like Christians are stuck with the absurdities of Genesis, the moral primitivism of Leviticus and the sadism of Job, Muslims are stuck with the sura that tells them it's acceptable to beat their wives. Decent, rational members of both religions must reach some accommodation between scripture and conscience. The men in the video are trying to help their fellow-Muslims do that.

By contrast, intolerance and self-righteous bigotry help nobody.

reply to post by logical7


"they have a choice to accept the judgement by the sharia council but if either parties don't, then they can go to the court and get judged by common law. Is that so difficult to understand??"

Some of these so called Sharia law councils operate from council houses. So to me that sounds a whole lot like street/schemie justice!

What about the fact that they are totally biased toward misogynistic ideologies, they essentially treat females like chattel, rather a large percentage of whom simply comply with the judgments of these bogus law councils because they don't know any better or feel that they must due to the religious value system that they have been born into.

And what happens when they don't accept the false judgments of said councils, they are ostracized in there local communities by other simple Sharia law followers and family members.

Just because some wee old dude possess a Koran, desk and council house does not bestow upon him the ability to judge others im afraid, is that so difficult to understand?

reply to post by Astyanax

By contrast, intolerance and self-righteous bigotry help nobody.

Oh, I forgot a couple more excuses, thanks for reminding me:

3 misdirect towards another religion (namely Christianity)
4 label a person as intolerant and a bigot.

Sorry, but Christianity isn't what it once was centuries ago, Islam is still in the middle ages in comparison. Go ahead and call me a bigot but still doesn't change the fact Islam STILL needs to undergo a lot of changes.

reply to post by MidnightTide

Oh, I forgot a couple more excuses, thanks for reminding me:

3 misdirect towards another religion (namely Christianity)
4 label a person as intolerant and a bigot.

Sorry, but Christianity isn't what it once was centuries ago, Islam is still in the middle ages in comparison. Go ahead and call me a bigot but still doesn't change the fact Islam STILL needs to undergo a lot of changes.

Do you expect Muslims to discard or alter their holy book, which is said to have been dictated to the Prophet by God Himself? Would you expect a Christian or a Jew to have to do that?

Bigotry is negative prejudice – making ugly a priori assumptions about others and then behaving as if those assumptions are true. Going by that definition, how do you think this post of yours qualifies? I am not a Muslim. I have no love for any religion; you may call me an atheist. I was raised a Christian in a multiracial, religiously mixed society in which the majority faith was Buddhism.

What I see here, mostly, is your knee jerking. The video posted by the OP is actually a laudable effort by well-meaning men caught up in a difficult situation, trying to do the best they can. It looks to me like half the people on this thread couldn't hold back long enough to watch the video before leaping in to tell the world what they think is wrong with Islam, Muslims and all the rest. As a disinterested observer, I say: shame on you.

Why cant we all just toss organised religion to the wind. Pray to what ever deity floats our boat (quietly) and get on with our lives without breaching other individuals Human rights?

To all the guys saying there's no circumstance where a grown man would need to physically defend himself against a woman:

1)There's plenty of cases of women beating their husbands and being taken to jail for it.

2)Go out on a date with Ronda Rousey and see things turn out if she decides she want's to slap an armbar on you. You'll be crying for the police. Or more likely an ambulance to taken you to the hospital after she snaps your arm.

Women can be the the one dishing out the violence in a "grown-up" relation ship , let's not get that twisted.

Lastly: Thread Title is VERY misleading. I watched the video twice, and this guy is try to put the rods down, and use them as a tool. Just like Dad's belt and Mom's wooden spoon was used on all the kids in my neighborhood in the early 80's so good for him. Oh but some people here can tell he's not being sincere...cause of his grin? please.

Also it's a completely different culture, you can not compare it to the U.S. In this day to and age Islam. American woman have so many oppourtunities and hotlines they can call to get REAL help. There is no reason for a woman in the US to stay in an abusive relationship in the year 2013. I had two sisters stay in these types of relationships for way to long, and their excuses were the usual..., but the kids..., but I have no where to go. I call bs on them.Told them to Call Child Services if your really getting beat, they won't leave the kids with the father, and there's plenty of funded places that take "battered spouses" (male and female). Both finally listened and they are much stronger woman for it. (and they didn't need to pole-dance to get their self-esteem back, really wth is that?) You wan't to get real self-esteem back, and ensure this never happens to you again. do a google search for "Women Empowered, Gracie University dot com".

If your significant other is beating you, leave. Or cry to someone else. I have zero sympathy for you. Perhaps you like it? Or are you gonna pull the worthless old, but "My daddy beat my Mommy so it's all I know!" That story is getting old, take responsibility for your life. Break the cycle, or your sons will grow up as wife beaters, and your daughters will grow up to be punching bags or vice versa. If you really loved your kids, you'd see it, and get out.

reply to post by dollukka


I wish I had not watched that video, That Man is an evil coward. He was stomping on her chest like he was trying to kill that poor Women? That was very disturbing. I can't believe that some people treat other human beings that way. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by andy06shake

Just because some wee old dude possess a Koran, desk and council house does not bestow upon him the ability to judge others im afraid, is that so difficult to understand?

i am afraid that the same description applies to a judge sitting in a court with a rule book and a desk

or maybe you are just ignorant that islamic jurisprudence is a subject being studied long before your country was even a country!!

Muslims have courts and a justice system long before the time when people at your place were throwing their sh!t and garbage in the middle of the street!!

Originally posted by Astyanax
Do you expect Muslims to discard or alter their holy book, which is said to have been dictated to the Prophet by God Himself?

I expect all people to use common sense and if their 'religion' says to beat women, then they should know enough that it isn't from God and they should discard it. This isn't rocket science. Beating women, even 'a little' is BAD. I mean .. comeon ... DUH!

I noticed that he said that the rod was for the huband to wife and vise versa have you ever heard of a woman beating her husband in this religion?

Originally posted by hotel1
I believe this is where the expression 'rule of thumb' stems from when in times past it was considered acceptable and was indeed lawful for a man to beat his wife with a rod so long as that rod was no thicker than his thumb. Kudos to the poster who advocated sexy funtime bedroom spanking.

I wonder if the moderators will ever start to punish users who intentionally propagate falsehoods......

womenshistory.about.com...
www.debunker.com...

Then again, a person could actually be low enough in intelligence to believe what they are peddling;either way, I believe via those links, that people should be able to deny ignorance in the future, when they wish to cite a hateful falsehood, propagated by a hate movement.

reply to post by Astyanax


Christians know that there are fundamental primitive things in the past that are not done, and illegal. They stick with the positive messages, metaphors, interpretations and Christ's message.

I suggest that Islam do the same.

We're talking about crimes and they should be illegal with huge teeth to enforce, across the world via the UN.

I don't believe in war, but I do believe in police armies of all Good Upright nations FREEING THE ABUSED CITIZENS OF A FASCIST OR THEOCRACY STATE. Would not be bombing them, would round up women and children and the good men to eco farms and yurts and safety, that would always be built and in large supply, there would far more homes than people needed.

And the ones who need to be imprisoned, dealt with.

The Islam meaning of Guardianship must have a very different interpretation to myself. I thought guardianship was more about protection and care rather than abuse and demonising.

I was listening to a radio presenter the other day driving to work who officially declared the age of Chivalry is dead after hearing a story of the treatment of a woman who went on a blind date with a friends friend. The comments by people ringing in prompted the presenter to make the announcement based on their views and opinions of the incident.

Between that and this video and some of the comments made throughout the postings I don't want to believe that Chivalry is dead but it certainly seems close to it!

In my personal opinion, any man who needs to raise a hand to strike another, man, woman or child, in order to 'punish' or 'abuse' is a complete and utter coward. What ever happened to a healthy equal dialogue first? Or am I trying to believe in a futile dream? Surely we are better than this?

reply to post by logical7


"i am afraid that the same description applies to a judge sitting in a court with a rule book and a desk"

Are you sure? Nothing to do with years of university, then law school, then a career in law? This has nothing to do with becoming a REAL U.K judge? At Least that's how it works in the UK.

"or maybe you are just ignorant that islamic jurisprudence is a subject being studied long before your country was even a country!!"

If you are going to insinuate that i am ignorant you really should start sentences with a capital letter and end them with a full stop. LoL

"Muslims have courts and a justice system long before the time when people at your place were throwing their sh!t and garbage in the middle of the street!!"

Well I suppose that makes up for all the suicide bombings, beheadings, mercy killings, and other assorted atrocities being perpetrated by the Islamic extremists these days?

Difference is we are trying to learn from our mistakes(To a fashion), least some of us are!

Peace be upon you!


Edit:

No what the short end of the long stick is? Sharia Muslims in the UK need to realise they don't need pants for there victory dance. There part of the UK now whether they realize it or not!

End of they day, when push comes to shove, there wont be a middle east in the near future unless cooler heads prevail!

Simple, and according to plan......................................if we let them!

reply to post by andy06shake

Are you sure? Nothing to do with years of university, then law school, then a career in law? This has nothing to do with becoming a REAL U.K judge? At Least that's how it works in the UK.

oh i didnt knew that!

Do you think they put the first guy they see on the street in a beard and cap as a judge in sharia court??

"or maybe you are just ignorant that
islamic jurisprudence is a subject being
studied long before your country was
even a country!!" If you are going to insinuate that i am
ignorant you really should start
sentences with a capital letter and end
them with a full stop. LoL

my english is not that good but even i don't know of an exclamatory sentence ending with a full stop. I do know and it would be good if you accept your ignorance about Islamic Jurisprudence as a full science and more work/study being done in it than in the UK judicial system.

"Muslims have courts and a justice
system long before the time when
people at your place were throwing
their sh!t and garbage in the middle of
the street!!" Well I suppose that makes up for all
the suicide bombings, beheadings,
mercy killings, and other assorted
atrocities being perpetrated by the
Islamic extremists these days? Difference is we are trying to learn
from our mistakes(To a fashion), least
some of us are!

coming from a citizen of a country which barely left any country in the world uncolonised!
How do you justify arming those terrorists for the sake of "interests" of your country?
Learning from mistakes?? Oppressors don't learn, they get destroyed.


You don't want to be under sharia law, Fine. Why do you mind if muslims want it and get it democratically? Muslims have a religious code and they want to follow it. WHO DECIDES THAT RELIGION AND LAW SHOULD BE SEPERATE? It was the christians who did it and a big push came from the anti-church feelings leading to a secular system. Muslims have a different history and no anti-religious feelings, so its impossible to impose extremist secular ideology on them. Be it the Middle East or muslims in UK.

ALLAH AKBAR!!

reply to post by FlyersFan

I expect all people to use common sense and if their 'religion' says to beat women, then they should know enough that it isn't from God and they should discard it.

Oh, I agree unreservedly.

So what about a religion that approves the murder of women? Shouldn't that be discarded as well? Exodus 22:18

How about a faith whose holy book gives detailed orders for carrying out a genocide, with specific instructions for the slaughter of pregnant women? Numbers 31:17–18

How about bashing children's brains out? Better than hitting women, is it? Psalm 137:9

And goodness me, look what we have here: 1 Timothy 2:11–14

You're quite right, FlyersFan. People should use their common sense, and discard these religions that are so 'evidently not from God'. I did that 25 years ago. Your turn now.

This isn't rocket science. Beating women, even 'a little' is BAD. I mean .. comeon ... DUH!

Precisely.

Oh look, spousal abuse is condoned and encouraged by the "religion of peace?" SHOCKED.

I wouldn't even treat my own dog that way, let alone my beloved wife. They can all fukk off with their stoneage depravity.

reply to post by Astyanax


Try the TRUTH, it does'nt hurt honestly. Read the 10 Commandments, and you will not use such ancient BS that which you quted

reply to post by steaming

My quotes are from the Bible. I agree that they may be 'ancient BS', but how are the Ten Commandments any different?