"The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

reply to post by logical7

Muslims have courts and a justice system long before the time when people at your place were throwing their sh!t and garbage in the middle of the street!!

Wow, logical7 - foul. You need to study up on the history of the UK. Really.
Heard of King Arthur? You are talking about the "dark ages" - what went on before was not like that - and if I'm to believe my daughter's description of what goes on in India - no toilet paper?
or the statistics: More cell phones than toilets?

careful with that. It is true that in the Tudor period in the 13th-16th centuries people threw their waste into the streets and the place was filthy. But England had been around LONG before Romans went there and started imposing THEIR laws and customs onto the indigenous tribes.

Just as Mohammed did with his Medina-stage conquering of what became the "Ottoman Empire", which then met with a retaliatory "Crusade" . Islam is NOT INNOCENT in the fracturing of the world. Neither is "the West." And neither of them has a firm understanding of the other, which is the problem. A few individuals do, and they try to educate the populace - but when the populace itself doesn't even know those people exist the message fails to get delivered.

And so they simply carry on with their ignorant, uneducated "opinions" - because no one is correcting them.
And so it remains fractured. Thus, we all need to get ON THE SAME PAGE if we are going to survive as a species.

what to say? people white/black/red or yellow who beat their wifes OR husbands are stupid. And if their laws say it's ok, that corruption of a society. People who don't use logic and reason are doomed and are dooming the rest of us to thier stupid false reality of hate and out of control thinking. hey government people, instead of torchuring me with mind control, why not go after real criminals?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Muslims have courts and a justice system long before the time when people at your place were throwing their sh!t and garbage in the middle of the street!!

Wow, logical7 - foul. You need to study up on the history of the UK. Really.
Heard of King Arthur? You are talking about the "dark ages" - what went on before was not like that - and if I'm to believe my daughter's description of what goes on in India - no toilet paper?
or the statistics: More cell phones than toilets?

careful with that. It is true that in the Tudor period in the 13th-16th centuries people threw their waste into the streets and the place was filthy. But England had been around LONG before Romans went there and started imposing THEIR laws and customs onto the indigenous tribes.

Just as Mohammed did with his Medina-stage conquering of what became the "Ottoman Empire", which then met with a retaliatory "Crusade" . Islam is NOT INNOCENT in the fracturing of the world. Neither is "the West." And neither of them has a firm understanding of the other, which is the problem. A few individuals do, and they try to educate the populace - but when the populace itself doesn't even know those people exist the message fails to get delivered.

And so they simply carry on with their ignorant, uneducated "opinions" - because no one is correcting them.
And so it remains fractured. Thus, we all need to get ON THE SAME PAGE if we are going to survive as a species.

Only a few hundred years ago people threw their wast into the street.

So that means that everyone should evolve at the same time does it?

Nah, let the weak perish, the filthy rot and the losers in the world keep on losing.

Not my path to be tolerant.

Originally posted by Trueman
What comment can you make after watching a video like this one? I mean, what is wrong with these people????

I'm afraid to make further comments, since I don't know if islam girls are ok with that.

edit on 20-6-2013 by Trueman because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-6-2013 by Trueman because: (no reason given)

In a single generation the women in Islamic nations could wage their own G-had against their oppressors and make Islamic male babies being born a wishful thought. But they won't because they are brainwashed into believing they are the guilty ones and worthy of abuse. Besides, one evil would never erase another. The only answer is to be liberated from slavery.

Willing to bet I'm not the only one to say that this is some kind of propaganda from Israel..

reply to post by Astyanax

where anti-Muslim bigots are justifying their hatred of Islam by belabouring certain verses in the Koran, parading crimes and abuses committed by Muslims against Muslims, and so on. Clearly such abuses are real – every society is plagued by them, not just Islamic ones – but they are no justification for hating anybody

I don't understand why Progressives and Feminists who fought so hard in the US to gain respect and freedom and equality for women would support barbaric treatment of women in other cultures in the name of "tolerance". It is not tolerance, it is blindness. And then turn around and say that Christians are bigots. You have some NERVE!

reply to post by Astyanax

Do you expect Muslims to discard or alter their holy book, which is said to have been dictated to the Prophet by God Himself?

Nope, if they want to still use sticks to beat their wives into submission, they can still do it in places like Saudi Arabia or wherever, but it is not acceptable in the States.
Maybe Hillary will go in with her UN cr&^ and try to force them...but I don't see it happening as she is still busy trying to take away our guns and our parental rights.
edit: oh wait, I think the UN is already on this bigoted way of trying to change other cultures

www2.ohchr.org...

Beyond their specific and diverse characteristics, the Arab countries have in common several cultural, historical and geographical aspects. All of them are traditional/patriarchal societies where more or less women have suffered - and continue - from legal, economic, socio-cultural and political discrimination that hinder their citizenship and enjoyment of their human rights as equal as men. This has an impact on the development of all societies as demonstrated by yearly published gender gaps and sex-disaggregated indicators.

www2.ohchr.org...

Maybe you should take up your case with the UN to preserve the rights of men to beat their women.

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by Trueman

 

and that means something.

yes it means that ....

Wow, thanks. So we have a muslim person here confirming the video.

How did I do that ? I think ...

You interpreted my silence like how you wanted.

Just the way you find news and interpret them the way you want.

I liked the stats they brought up in the video from 1999-2000 about how in america according to the UN we beat a wife every 12 seconds and the result is death or something along those lines glad they threw that in there

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I don't understand why Progressives and Feminists who fought so hard in the US to gain respect and freedom and equality for women would support barbaric treatment of women in other cultures in the name of "tolerance".

What??

Do who in the what now????

Seems to me, ThirdEye, that you have been attacking ME for being a "Progressive Leftist Commie Marxist" - when what I'm doing IS standing up for the rights of women and saying that 'barbaric treatment' is just that -
and now somehow .....
what??


Good God! Do you really not pay attention to who it is you're attacking from thread to thread?
I give up on you. You are really not tracking all of this. It seems to me. And I don't 'understand' it.

Just like another was calling those who care and want an equal world biggots, the dark side always turns it around and blantantly lie.

Its so transparent and obvious, yet they think they're fooling everyone.

wtf is wrong with these people
i bet that arabic religions attitude about women came from a fear of the mystical powers that many ancient cultures attributed to them ( many cultures believed that women have greater esp abilities and that menstrual blood could be used in very powerful magick spells)

reply to post by wildtimes

Just as Mohammed did with his Medina-stage conquering of what became the "Ottoman Empire", which then met with a retaliatory "Crusade" .

Retaliatory crusade?? and i need a history lesson?
Mohammad pbuh leading to "Ottoman Empire"?? and i need a history lesson?
you either subscribe to a christian history or end up summarising the whole of Islamic Empire in a single line and that too wrongly!

I was making a point that Islamic Jurisprudence has been studied long before UK even existed as UK. Its a study like any law degree and only then a person gets to be the Judge. Do you know about it? Maybe you can help explain andy.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


You sure it's not acceptable in the US?

Christian Domestic Discipline (Huffington Post)

It claims to be consensual and I'm sure some of it is but I'm also sure some of it is not. Many Islamic women also consent to being submissive to their husbands including physical 'discipline'. Wife/Girlfriend beating sadly isn't that rare at all even without religious dogmas in place.

Christianity is no different than Islam. It has it's peaceful moderate worshippers and it's extremists, just like Islam. There's gender equality in both and male dominance in both. The comparisons go on and on...

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I don't understand why Progressives and Feminists who fought so hard in the US to gain respect and freedom and equality for women would support barbaric treatment of women in other cultures in the name of "tolerance". It is not tolerance, it is blindness. And then turn around and say that Christians are bigots. You have some NERVE!

I am not American and I do not live in the United States. The fight for freedom and equality before the law is not confined to one country; it goes on around the world.

Progressives and feminists don't support the 'barbaric treatment of women in other cultures'. However, some of us realise the importance of that phrase 'other cultures'. A person from another culture is a person who does not share your values, does not think as you do. Their ideas about right and wrong differ from yours. And however much you disagree with them, however much your religious, political or personal sensibilities may be revolted, they have every right to their own ways of thinking, their own values and ideas.

You, and people who think along the same lines as you, don't recognise that right. You want other people in other countries to adopt the same values as yourself, to think and act as you do.

Perhaps you don't see why that is wrong. That is because you are so much a creature of the values and ideas of your society that you cannot see the world except through their distorting lens.

How would you like it if someone came along and tried to make you behave according to their values? Many of you see even the act of giving Muslims and people of other cultures the right to practice their own religious and social rites in your countries as a threat to your own freedoms – even though nobody is asking you to eat only halal meat and bow five times a day in the direction of Mecca. Yet some of you approve of doing much worse than that to Muslims, in the name of the values of your culture. You want to go over there and force them to abandon sharia law, to throw their holy book out into the trash. And when they demur, you do it for them.

And you say I have a nerve! :shk:

If they want to still use sticks to beat their wives into submission, they can still do it in places like Saudi Arabia or wherever, but it is not acceptable in the States.

1. That video was shown on Saudi Arabian TV.
   
   
2. A woman is beaten by her man every fifteen seconds in the USA. If wife-beating is not acceptable to Americans, perhaps they should do something about that appalling statistic, instead of getting their boxer shorts in a twist about what men in foreign countries do with their wives.

Maybe you should take up your case with the UN to preserve the rights of men to beat their women.

You appear to have forgotten that the United Nations is just that: an association made up of people from all over the world. If Africans, Middle Easterners and South Asians wish to address the issue of domestic violence in their countries through the UN, they have every right to do so, since their countries are UN members and signatories to the various UN conventions and declarations concerning these matters. And the UN itself is mandated by its member-states to concern itself with such matters. Working on important global issues such as violence against women through the United Nations is very different from taking an imperialistic, paternalistic, holier-than-thou approach to other cultures and prescribing how other people should behave.

reply to post by Unity_99

Just like another was calling those who care and want an equal world biggots, the dark side always turns it around and blantantly lie.

An equal world? You'll never get that. But we may hope to attain a world of equal social opportunity for everybody. We are very far from it today – I suppose places like Finland and the Scandinavian countries come nearest – but that is no reason to stop us trying, and hoping.

We will not get there, however, as long as people like you think their own point of view, their own values and beliefs, are the only correct ones in existence, and that they have a right to impose them on peoples and cultures that do not share them.

When you advocate using force to right the wrongs of the world, as you did earlier, you line yourself up along with the Donald Rumsfelds and Henry Kissingers. Is that where you want to be standing?

You call me a liar. Point me to one falsehood I have uttered in this thread. Show me where I have lied.

reply to post by wildtimes


I did not address you in this thread, I addressed another poster. But if the shoe fits....maybe you just didn't pay attention to who my post was a response to. I was addressing someone who seems to think that it is intolerant to not accept wife beating because it is a different cultural upbringing, and I find it hilarious that you were insulted that I referenced the UN on gender abuse, and women in foreign countries especially.

reply to post by Astyanax

Progressives and feminists don't support the 'barbaric treatment of women in other cultures'.

I think maybe you are not correct, as I have seen Progressives here on this very site defending Sharia Law. It was very recent on a thread here. Since Sharia Law by it's very nature is biased against women, and even the UN document I posted explicitly cites that culture, I think Progressives don't understand that in their rush to appear tolerant of other cultures, they end up defending something they supposedly fought against in the last century. Maybe it's just an oversight, but when called on it, they get very upset, as we can see here in this thread.

reply to post by Astyanax

That video was shown on Saudi Arabian TV.

Yah and then you cite some statistic on Americans beating their wives. The difference here would be that in that video it appears acceptable in that culture, and in America you can go to jail for it.

Maybe somehow you didn't perceive that little difference called the Law.

You want to go over there and force them to abandon sharia law, to throw their holy book out into the trash

In what post did I ever say that? It's a lie and you know it. There is a difference between allowing Sharia to exist in one place and not bringing it here to the US. Do you understand that? It is not compatible with the US Constitution. I cited the UN, not because I agree with the UN, but to point out the incongruity in Progressive thinking, which I think also went right over your head and a few others too.
I am actually not for the UN forcing a One World Order on everyone. But while Progressives continually attack Christians as bigots, it is Progressives who push the Totalitarian way of social engineering. I am so sorry that no one here seems to understand this point.

A person from another culture is a person who does not share your values, does not think as you do.

Well, I'm not sure if you think that wife beating is just another culture or if you were talking about tasting different foods or a different kind of dress. I happen to like Harissa, but I don't have to accept being beaten. See what I mean?

The fact that the ACLU defends Sharia Law shows that Progressives are not sticking to their own rules when it comes to women.
So, like I said, if it's legal in Saudi Arabia, that doesn't mean we should do it in the States.

You, and people who think along the same lines as you, don't recognise that right

No, I don't recognize the right to beat wives here. I recognize it in Saudi Arabia however, because that is their law, and it is against the law here.
So what other people like me then? People who respect the law?
How about people like you, who use deflection like you did earlier in citing Old Testament Bible?
I also would like you to cite the particular passage in the Bible that recommends burning witches. It would be interesting to see what you come up with, because I think you have probably misinterpreted scripture.
Even the passage referring to burning in the Lake of Fire has nothing to do with burning witches. The fact that it happened in Salem does not mean it is a scriptural thing. It is a sad and sorry episode, just like honor killings are.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

nobody is asking you to eat only halal meat and bow five times a day in the direction of Mecca.

Halal meat is not the issue here, using sticks on women is. You're being very coy and I suppose this kind of misdirection may work on some people.

reply to post by Unity_99

Just like another was calling those who care and want an equal world biggots, the dark side always turns it around and blantantly lie.

So it's dark to not want to promote the UN? Boy have you got another thing coming when you realize what the UN is really doing if you think it is all sweetness and light.

If you think that the UN is about genuine equality, think again. It is a ruse for enslaving everyone to the Power Elite, with them as rulers and everyone else equally their slaves. I will never change my stance on this issue. While they talk a good talk about equality, it is nothing more than Totalitarianism with a pretty face.
In fact, would you care to explain how it is that the UN basically did nothing to stop the genocide in Rwanda? I believe in the docudrama of it, it was shown that UN troops drove around and did not intervene.

The nation’s Security Council accepted their failing responsibility to prevent the Rwandan genocide in 1994. Council members at first acknowledged that lack of governments provided the un-political stop to the massacres and admitted many mistakes made by them in tackling the issue. After the death of ten Belgium soldiers, the United Nations reported the removal of most 2,500 peace keepers. Canadian Foreign Minister, Lloyd Axworthy stated “none present could look back without feeling guilt and devastation at the lack to help the Rwandan civilians at their time in need” (BBC News).

en.wikipedia.org...

If you believe the UN is going to fix the problems of the world, you would be sadly mistaken.
Interestingly, it is the author of "They Fired The First Shot" who explains that in the visitation of Our Lady of Medugorje, Our Lady states, "As individuals, my children, you cannot stop the evil that wants to begin to rule this world and to destroy it...", and this statement was related to the evil that occurred as genocide of man against man in Rwanda, even of Christians against other Christians in that country, as both the Hutus and the Tutsis are Christian. This scenario is discussed on pages 13-18 in that book, and how the UN Peacekeepers were withdrawn from the region.

Here is the book, if you happen to feel like checking it out

www.medjugorje.com...

Oh by the way, apparently Jeane Kirkpatrick had the same opinion of the UN as I do.

The result of such a review is disturbing. Under the control of the numerous Third World nations, the UN has been actively promoting a comprehensive and totalitarian system of global management. Attacked by UN ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick as a philosophy of "global socialism,"[7] it is that and much more. The overriding UN ideology is one of international control of natural, financial, and informational resources, as well as the global regulation of economic and even cultural activities.

www.cato.org...

And this was really the point I was trying to make, in that while the UN may spout altruistic sounding rhetoric about human rights, what they really represent is Totalitarian control.