"The Rod for the Disobedient" - Wife Beating in Islam

reply to post by 23432


"In this muslim society , the women are in charge of men ."

To be honest i think our western nations could do with taking a leaf out of that particular book!

"If you watch the video , you would understand why the wife beating is a non issue for this particular group of women."

As you say through its only one particular group. Im trying to get my little ones back to sleep right now, ile watch it when I have some spare time.

"Violence against women is an absolute NO amongs these muslims . "

Seems admirable to me mate.

What are your thoughts on the short 2min video i posted regarding Sharia law courts is the UK?

Originally posted by 23432

Originally posted by Trueman

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by andy06shake


That would be like a priest breaking the confessional oath, would it not?

If wife-beating is appropriate in muslim culture, dont you think a few well-known clerics would say so?

And wouldnt it be officially legal in some countries? (Maybe it is...I dont know...thats why Im asking).

How many more videos you need ? Because I'm convinced.

I have put up a video proving that this wife beating issue is a non issue but you have refused to watch it. Funny thing is your rejection was based upon your own presumptions .

I don't think you are seeking the truth, I think you want to divert the beam of light. Someone else already answered you anyway.

reply to post by Unity_99

Amazingly enough there is denial and covering the facts going on.

So true. Right now is a thread with about a 1/3 of replies and only 10 flags in the ATS front page. I guess true is many times "inconvenient". Hello staff ???

Don't say "Islam tells you to beat women", If a Muslims happens to commit sin, he does not in any way represent Islam as a whole. Every human commits mistakes that's the reason there is forgiveness.

When Islam gave the women right to speak out and be a part of society 1400 years ago, was there anyone to say "Islam tells us to beat women"? NO! Don't try to delude the real message, it will always prevail.

Please tell me that you have at least read what the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said about women. Do you want some examples? Do you value your own women as much as he did?

THIS IS WHAT PROPHET MOHAMED s.a.w TALKED ABOUT

WIVES:

1.Muhammad said: "Beat not your wives." Then Omar came to the Rasul (Muhammad) and said, "Wives have got the upper hand of their husbands from hearing this."

2.He is the most perfect Muslim whose disposition is best; and the best of you are they who behave best to their wives.

3. A virtuous wife is a man's best treasure.

4.Women are the twin-halves of men.

WOMEN:

1.The world and all things in it are valuable; but the most valuable thing in the world is a virtuous woman.

2.The best women are the virtuous; they are the most affectionate to infants, and the most careful of their husbands' property.

3. When a woman performeth the five times of prayer, and fasteth the month of Ramadan, and is chaste, and is not disobedient to her husband, then tell her to enter Paradise by whichever door she likes..

4. Verily a great number of women are assembled near my family, complaining of their husbands; and those men who ill-treat their wives do not behave well. He is not of my way who teacheth a woman to stray.

5.Asma, daughter of Yazid, said, "Victuals were brought to Muhammad, and he put them before some of us women who were present, and said, `Eat ye.' But notwithstanding we were hungry we said, ` We have no inclination.' Muhammad said, `O women! do not mix hunger with lies."'

6.Whoever doeth good to girls, it will be a curtain to him from hell-fire.

7.Whoever befriendeth two girl till they come of age, will be in the next world along with me, like my two fingers joining each other.

8.Whoever befriendeth three daughters, or three sisters, and teacheth them manners, and is affectionate to them, till they come of age, may God apportion Paradise for him.

9.Whoever hath a daughter, and doth not bury her alive, or scold her, or prefer his male children to her, may God bring him into Paradise.

10. Shall I not point out to you the best of virtues? It is your doing good to your daughter when she is returned to you having been divorced by her husband.

11.God enjoins you to treat women well, for they are your mothers, daughters, and aunts.


HOLY QURAAN VERSES

He (God) it is who did create you from a single soul and therefrom did create his mate, that he might dwell with her (in love)...(Qur'an 7:189)

The Creator of heavens and earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves ...Qur'an 42:1 1

And Allah has given you mates of your own nature, and has given you from your mates, children and grandchildren, and has made provision of good things for you. Is it then in vanity that they believe and in the grace of God that they disbelieve? Qur'an 16:72

...So their Lord accepted their prayers, (saying): I will not suffer to be lost the work of any of you whether male or female. You proceed one from another ...(Qur'an 3: 195).

Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily to him will We give a new life that is good and pure, and We will bestow on such their reward according to the their actions. (Qur'an 16:97, see also 4:124).

"Seeking knowledge is mandatory for every Muslim". (AlBayhaqi). Muslim as used here including both males and females.

"...But consort with them(women) in kindness, for if you hate them it may happen that you hate a thing wherein God has placed much good." (Qur'an 4: l9).

OTHER SAYINGS OF THE QURAAN AND PROPHET MOHAMED

Islam consideres kindness to parents next to the worship of God.

"And we have enjoined upon man (to be good) to his parents: His mother bears him in weakness upon weakness..." (Qur'an 31:14) (See also Qur'an 46:15, 29:8).

Moreover, the Qur'an has a special recommendation for the good treatment of mothers:
"Your Lord has decreed that you worship none save Him, and that you be kind to your parents. . ." (Qur'an 17:23).

A man came to Prophet Muhammad (P) asking:
O Messenger of God, who among the people is the most worthy of my good company? The Prophet (P) said, Your mother. The man said then who else: The Prophet (P) said, Your mother. The man asked, Then who else? Only then did the Prophet (P) say, Your father. (Al-Bukhari and Muslim).

A famous saying of The Prophet is "Paradise is at the feet of mothers." (In Al'Nisa'I, Ibn Majah, Ahmad).

"It is the generous (in character) who is good to women, and it is the wicked who insults them."


Islam is perfect, but you have gravely misunderstood it.

Don't take Muslim countries as an example when speaking about Islam. Muslims follow Islam of course, but that does not mean that they don't follow other cultures, traditions along with it. There are close to 2 billion Muslims, do you really think they're all 100% perfect Muslims?

When Christians, Jews and people of all other religions beat their wives. Do you then blame it on their religion? Even though their religion may allow beating of wives? NO, certainly you do not. Some people are just against Islam because it's to perfect to believe. Being against the truth is only your lost. You're argument isn't going to get you anywhere.

reply to post by Misbah


Ok....good reply. Now.......just say if the information in the video is true. Yes or No.

That's the whole point, so answer straight. don't quote your prophet or texts, because those guys have big sticks in their hands and they have no sheeps or goats.

Again.....it's about that video.

Ok - I'm happilly married to a Muslim man (for 10 yrs ) and I live in the Middle East - I'm not Muslim, I'm British but I feel I'm at least a little bit qualified to reply to this thread. I didn't watch the video but I read most of the thread so I've got a pretty accurate picture of what's being said here.

I for one, have thankfully never been hit or threatened by my husband. He prays 5 times a day, is a pretty strict Muslim and knows the Quran inside out, yet 'wife beating' is as far off his agenda as it possibly could be. He's a kind, loving man and protective as could be of me and our children. But that's just me.

I also have many Muslim friends, some of them converts, who are married to Arab Muslim men. I am also very close to my husband's family ( he has 13 sisters from his fathers 2 separate marriages - his first wife died) who are all Muslim. They are all, without doubt, strong women with strong positions within their family and I just don't see this 'rod-bearing' attitude in any of them.
My own sister in law has been known to lock her long suffering husband out of the house for coming home late a couple of nights in a row, resulting in him having to sleep on his mother in laws couch for a few nights til she calmed down! Believe me, he knows better than to get on her wrong side! In fact, since moving here, I have never before come across women so self -assured, arrogant in some cases, who spend their lives in beauty salons or lunching with friends before driving off in their flashy 4x4 s while their maids look after their kids and their husbands are no doubt slaving away working to provide the lifestyle these women are fortunate enough to enjoy.
This is what I see every day, whenever I step out of my door. So very far removed from the video and the controlled and abused women it refers to.

However - I also don't need to go very far to see a totally different picture. My house looks out onto a valley where shepherds live, a they have done forever, in nothing more than a tent. I watch as their wives cook on an open fire as they come home, their dogs and kids running around, no electricity, just lamps and fire. This is within the very same city that I can find all the glitz and glamour you can imagine. If I drive just 2 minutes downthe road, I come to traffic lights where kids are begging, barely clothed, going from car to car with their hand outstretched while somewhere not too far away, lurking in the shadows, is their father, ready to collect the earnings. A lady can be seen every day, leading her donkey through the streets, kids piled on it's back going through the bins.
In the East of the city are ' ghetto like' buildings, house after house with holes for windows, crammed together, washing strewn between the crumbling buildings. The people who live there can't afford an education. Their kids often dont go to school at all. They dont question their way of life because they dont have reason to.Probably not even a TV. Life for them is tough and built upon strong cultural and religious traditions and teachings and they are living as they always have done for centuries. Life for them is not restaurants, spas and flashy cars. So how can you possibly expect them to even know, not least understand, the different standards and the so called 'civilisation' we enjoy in the West? These people are living a life that is different to anything we know, myself included.
And occasionally, or quite often, such people from such backgrounds end up on TV producing videos such as this one....
Abuse of women ( or anyone or thing) can never be justified, and I am not saying that the lack of education or cultural awareness, or, I hate to say, civilisation, is an excuse. But when people are living tough lives in harsh environments that have not changed for centuries and yet they are guided by and follow a very literal version of the Quran, it's hard to judge in the same league as domestic abuse in the society we live in in the West.

Finally, I always look back on my marriage to a British man for 10 years before I divorced him and met my present, Muslim, husband. I suffered years of mental abuse and degradation with my ex husband. It's only after meeting the lovely ( Muslim) man who is my second husband that I was able to build my shattered self esteem up again, with his help. Ironic really.....

reply to post by Lovely1973


Thanks for the input Lovely1973, that's exactly the kind of information this thread needs!

From the horse's mouth so to speak(Meaning you know what your talking about, no disrespect)!

Originally posted by Lovely1973
Ok - I'm happilly married to a Muslim man (for 10 yrs ) and I live in the Middle East - I'm not Muslim, I'm British but I feel I'm at least a little bit qualified to reply to this thread. I didn't watch the video but I read most of the thread so I've got a pretty accurate picture of what's being said here.

I for one, have thankfully never been hit or threatened by my husband. He prays 5 times a day, is a pretty strict Muslim and knows the Quran inside out, yet 'wife beating' is as far off his agenda as it possibly could be. He's a kind, loving man and protective as could be of me and our children. But that's just me.

I also have many Muslim friends, some of them converts, who are married to Arab Muslim men. I am also very close to my husband's family ( he has 13 sisters from his fathers 2 separate marriages - his first wife died) who are all Muslim. They are all, without doubt, strong women with strong positions within their family and I just don't see this 'rod-bearing' attitude in any of them.
My own sister in law has been known to lock her long suffering husband out of the house for coming home late a couple of nights in a row, resulting in him having to sleep on his mother in laws couch for a few nights til she calmed down! Believe me, he knows better than to get on her wrong side! In fact, since moving here, I have never before come across women so self -assured, arrogant in some cases, who spend their lives in beauty salons or lunching with friends before driving off in their flashy 4x4 s while their maids look after their kids and their husbands are no doubt slaving away working to provide the lifestyle these women are fortunate enough to enjoy.
This is what I see every day, whenever I step out of my door. So very far removed from the video and the controlled and abused women it refers to.

However - I also don't need to go very far to see a totally different picture. My house looks out onto a valley where shepherds live, a they have done forever, in nothing more than a tent. I watch as their wives cook on an open fire as they come home, their dogs and kids running around, no electricity, just lamps and fire. This is within the very same city that I can find all the glitz and glamour you can imagine. If I drive just 2 minutes downthe road, I come to traffic lights where kids are begging, barely clothed, going from car to car with their hand outstretched while somewhere not too far away, lurking in the shadows, is their father, ready to collect the earnings. A lady can be seen every day, leading her donkey through the streets, kids piled on it's back going through the bins.
In the East of the city are ' ghetto like' buildings, house after house with holes for windows, crammed together, washing strewn between the crumbling buildings. The people who live there can't afford an education. Their kids often dont go to school at all. They dont question their way of life because they dont have reason to.Probably not even a TV. Life for them is tough and built upon strong cultural and religious traditions and teachings and they are living as they always have done for centuries. Life for them is not restaurants, spas and flashy cars. So how can you possibly expect them to even know, not least understand, the different standards and the so called 'civilisation' we enjoy in the West? These people are living a life that is different to anything we know, myself included.
And occasionally, or quite often, such people from such backgrounds end up on TV producing videos such as this one....
Abuse of women ( or anyone or thing) can never be justified, and I am not saying that the lack of education or cultural awareness, or, I hate to say, civilisation, is an excuse. But when people are living tough lives in harsh environments that have not changed for centuries and yet they are guided by and follow a very literal version of the Quran, it's hard to judge in the same league as domestic abuse in the society we live in in the West.

Finally, I always look back on my marriage to a British man for 10 years before I divorced him and met my present, Muslim, husband. I suffered years of mental abuse and degradation with my ex husband. It's only after meeting the lovely ( Muslim) man who is my second husband that I was able to build my shattered self esteem up again, with his help. Ironic really.....

Brilliant and reflective: thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, wishing you love, light, and happiness always!

Originally posted by Misbah
Don't take Muslim countries as an example when speaking about Islam. Muslims follow Islam of course, but that does not mean that they don't follow other cultures, traditions along with it. There are close to 2 billion Muslims, do you really think they're all 100% perfect Muslims?

When Christians, Jews and people of all other religions beat their wives. Do you then blame it on their religion? Even though their religion may allow beating of wives? NO, certainly you do not. Some people are just against Islam because it's to perfect to believe. Being against the truth is only your lost. You're argument isn't going to get you anywhere.

Dude, try to understand. Let's say I have a stick at home, hanging in the living room. My wife comes home and ask me "honey.....what is that stick for?", and I answer "That honey, is the Rod for the Disobedient". Then I also tell her "Don't worry, I wont hit your face, I'll beat you carefully"

NEXT THING IS I GO JAIL, BEFORE I TRY TO USE IT. I'll be considered a violent person and the judge won't let me see my kids.

And that's how it works in civilized world.

*smirks and makes a mark on her tally board*

Wow, I was getting concerned the bigotry might be coming to an end and my future thread about all the Islamaphobia on ATS would be moot. It had slowed down a bit over the last couple of days. Rage on!

reply to post by Trueman

"NEXT THING IS I GO JAIL, BEFORE I TRY TO USE IT. I'll be considered a violent person and the judge won't let me see my kids.

And that's how it works in civilized world."

Plus they don't take too kindly to wife beaters in the nick. LoL

You can take that one to the bank!

reply to post by Lovely1973


Thank you for taking your time to reply, very happy to confirm not all muslims are the same and my respects to your family.

The problem here is that we have a video and it's very clear. That is part of a tv show, so it's hard to deny what they say. Regardless your personal experience.

reply to post by andy06shake


Haha.... I guess I'll be asked to pick up the soap on the floor of the showers.

reply to post by Trueman


I understand what Misbah is saying - Despite a country being Islamic and following Islamic traditions and practices, there are strong cultural practices in play too that may be taken as being Islamic simply because they occur in an Islamic country, when in fact it has nothing to do with the religion. I see it a lot here.

Not to mention the obvious that there are good and bad, extreme and moderate, in all sections of society. Some are just more vocal and / or more exploitable than others!

reply to post by Malynn


I have no phobias. I post a video and after 8 pages and 143 replies, nobody debunked it.

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by andy06shake

 

Haha.... I guess I'll be asked to pick up the soap on the floor of the showers.

There is that yes, more so i imagine in American jails. Here in the UK, if you are incarcerated for wife beating you are more lightly to have extra feces, urine and saliva in your food than the average prisoner. LoL

That and the repeated beatings from your fellow inmates, maybe a few razor blades passed under your door with the hint towards slashing your wrists. (Not condoning the promotion of suicide but it does happen)

Its not a nice experience for them nor should it be in my opinion.

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Malynn

 

I have no phobias. I post a video and after 8 pages and 143 replies, nobody debunked it.

Debunk is in the video I posted but you are too busy to watch .

Well , ignorance is your progative I suppose ...

Originally posted by andy06shake


What are your thoughts on the short 2min video i posted regarding Sharia law courts is the UK?

If group of people want to go by their rules & regulations and if it is not infringing on others rights,well , it is a free country after all .

Originally posted by Trueman
reply to post by Lovely1973

 

Thank you for taking your time to reply, very happy to confirm not all muslims are the same and my respects to your family.

The problem here is that we have a video and it's very clear. That is part of a tv show, so it's hard to deny what they say. Regardless your personal experience.

Thanks for your respects, I appreciate it.
But you can put any person with extreme views on TV, no matter how much of a minority they speak for, but that doesn't mean we all think like them or agree with them, does it?
I'm sure he nor anyone can deny what he says on the video.....it doesn't mean that it's representative of the majority of Muslims.
Dont get me wrong -The attitude displayed is out there, I'm not denying that at all. But it would be interesting to study the backgrounds ( like education and upbringing ) of the men spouting this stuff and I could almost guarantee they've had a considerable portion of their upbringing in a world very different from our own Western ideals, therefore of course they will see things differently. Not all the world is the same.
So how is it any different than putting a small group of British men on A TV show who advocate beating women. I'm sure there would be some out there who would do such a thing! Am thinking Jeremy Kyle....doesn't mean all British men are like that or agree with that.
Am I repeating myself? ;0)