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Judge rules 911 Operator may be held liable in man's death.

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posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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Forgive me, everyone...for not having found this to add to the OP. It should have gone with it and would have been very helpful in putting this man's actions as a 911 operator in perspective to the outcome of this case. To answer some above concerns? No..I don't think race had anything whatsoever to do with it. They handle so many calls in a major city that names probably don't even register in that way after awhile. It's just another ID to separate the people on a call, not an important stat to identify their personal history or racial makeup. However, I digress from what I came to add.


At least one former emergency-communications operator, Juan Jesus Rodriguez, was a repeat violator, failing performance audits twice in 2011. The city has declined to identify the names of those failing their audits, but the details about Rodriguez were revealed in a pending federal lawsuit.

Court documents show Rodriguez went on to have "deficiencies" for failing to "address scene safety and the integrity of a crime scene" during his handling of a February 2012 homicide call. In that case, supervisors gave him a verbal reprimand for failing to demonstrate sufficient urgency and for directing a man who had just confessed to choking to death his mother's boyfriend to go back into the house where the killing occurred.

Rodriguez remained on the job despite the problems only to violate policy again about a month later, a violation that ended in a fatal shooting when he sent a car full of Sudanese refugees back to the scene of a crime they were trying to report.


Source Article: Denver's 911 call review shows a pattern of problems

The above article goes into more detail about what happened in this particular shooting as well as the history and recent changes to the Denver 911 operations center. It adds critical context in more than one area of the story here and I hope everyone takes a moment to read more. Again, I wish I'd found this to add to the original piece but it's here on the thread now and important to understand all that happened in this as well as how the shooting itself came to happen.


Actual 911 Call Transcript
edit on 20-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: Added transcript




posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:11 AM
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It's a Darwin thing to be sure. If the 911 operator had told them to set the car on fire as a signal, would they have done THAT too?

A case of the stupid leading the idiotic, though in their defense I'd bet they were pretty shaken up from the attack and not thinking very well. The 911 operator didn't have that excuse, and should never have been hired in the first place.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by Pinke
 


Here, the guideline if you come home and there is broken glass, or you're in an altercation like this is to get out of danger, and stay out of danger.

Agreed. That would apply here too. Apparently thats what they did. They left the area. Who wouldn't? So the call was made after the danger was over. But, as it turned out in this case, it wasn't.


Perhaps there are other factors contributing to this, but surely this isn't advised conduct.

I agree with that too. After the fact.

How many times does (apparent) random juvenile delinquency escalate to murder from a 911 operators perspective? Especially in a high crime area where there are is a lot of belligerent behavior. They called 911 after the danger was over... what did they expect from 911 at that point? Shows their unfamiliarity with procedure.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



He then learned that the attackers had brandished a gun during the initial altercation.
That's the lawyer that pretty much screwed himself.

The operator THEN learned. That's a HUGE difference. Smashing a window and yelling racial slurs is not the same as brandishing a weapon and threatening to kill someone. If I were informed that someone had just had a window smashed I would tell them to drive to a well lit public area and wait for the cops. I got the impression that the young men were able to flee and lose the attackers. It basically states that. Then the dirtbags found them.

Let's not throw someone under the bus when, for all we know, they were acting in good faith and following procedure. If anything that operator probably deserves a hug and some compassion.

I also want to ask you who the real criminal is here. Was it the man that in hindsight didn't give the right advice, or the one that pulled the trigger?



Well it is also possible that...



when a group of Hispanic men allegedly pulled up along side, shouted racial slurs and shattered their windshield with beer bottles and "bottle rockets."


Being hispanic also the dispatcher did not like some of the things said in the race part of the thing. How did the guys report it, was Rodrigez feeling angry at what they said?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:10 PM
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I've thought a few times about becoming a 911 operator, since I have the requisite medical terminology and communication skills. I'd never apply after reading this; if you can be charged with murder (or held liable for a death occurring a long ways away from your location) how can you do this job and be able to sleep at night? People working in this capacity need lots of training and oversight but also need to be held harmless from making a wrong judgment call.

And what if squad cars were all busy at that point on other calls and they didn't call for a police check on things because they knew that none were available? Or were thinking that perhaps being all lit up would deter any further assaults?

If 'just leaving the scene and going somewhere less conspicuous' was possible, why didn't the people involved do that rather than waste time on the phone calling for help that might take precious minutes getting there?



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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Some say it might be your best interest to ignore the 911 operator directions. Maybe so, maybe not.

Isn't that what G. Zimmerman did.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:26 PM
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Geez, too bad police are unable to respond to an alternate location. How about directing them to a police station.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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Hispanic operator tells Asian victims to advertise themselves and return to fellow Hispanic attackers. Sounds racial to me. I can't see it any other way. No cops called... sent to their death willingly. Hispanics stick together.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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Hispanics Smashing a window and yelling racial slurs does lead to very unfortunate outcomes. Almost all carry knives and are just looking for some reason to escalate the violence.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 01:53 PM
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At first I was like, "How could a 911 operator be held liable?"

Then after reading it I was like, "That's how."


I don't think that operator is qualified to take orders at a drive thru menu.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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Why am I getting the feeling that TSA and 911 employees are bottom of the barrel? People that couldn't find work elsewhere and just fell backwards into these positions? Half way illiterate, probably at best high school education...we have a lot riding on these folks, seems they should have higher standards for hiring.




posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Hr2burn
Why am I getting the feeling that TSA and 911 employees are bottom of the barrel? People that couldn't find work elsewhere and just fell backwards into these positions? Half way illiterate, probably at best high school education...we have a lot riding on these folks, seems they should have higher standards for hiring.


Hope you don't mind, I fixed your link for you...



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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As with all things, these types of incidents allow for review of the contingencies that may or may not be in place. This case should allow for a precedent of litigation that may help various agencies to review such an incident for better planning and advice to those in distress.

Some states seem to automatically exempt officers or agents of detention centers from even being sued, or at least that's what they'd like us to think.

Clearly an investigation should take place with regard to this case, and it calls for better planning.

Then again, if an individual knows his or her safety may be compromised by the "advice" of the operator, that person should do what they believe will keep them safe.



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 
It would seem all involved were not aware of what was going on and, or what they were doing. The person killed and is friends, possibly because they did not understand American customs
Anyone from the hood, would of know to hall butt, away from area and not listen to 911 operator.

edit on 20-6-2013 by OOOOOO because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


*jaw hanging*

I saw the title ,ans thought this was going to be a dispatcher doing the right thing,and someone died due to time constraints etc ,but I have never heard of anything like this ....
He should be prosecuted for man slaughter ,at the very least .



posted on Jun, 20 2013 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by Hr2burn
 


I can't speak for the TSA ,except I applied for a job with them at JFK in 2008 . I passed the initial tests ,and went to JFK HQ for my interview .
This was for a part time job too,and it is a federal position . These people get federal benefits .

While I was waiting ,the woman at the front desk ,called me over ,after saying hi to three of the other people waiting,as they all seemed like friends of hers ,and she told me she didn't like my socks .
Yes really .
She told me I couldn't even go in for my appt ,unless I went home and changed my clothes to something more to her liking .
She said if I came back in clothes to her liking ,within a half hour ,I could go in for my appt .

This was the RECEPTIONIST ,who's outfit was polyester crap from JC Penny ,not the guy in the back I had the appt with . I said I live 20 min away .With traffic ,back and forth ,is an hour . Could I re schedule my appt ?
No,if you miss your appt ,you cannot even apply for the job again for another six months .

This was all quite purposeful ,as far as I could tell .

I went home ,and whipped out a nasty email to the guy I had the appt with . He sent a very apologetic email back ,and begged me to come back for an interview.
After that experience ,and all the hhhiiiii..... to her pals, and screwing me to insure they got the job,not me ,I wanted no part of it .

As for 911 dispatch ,in nyc ,we have CROs first .
Call receiving operator .
They decide where the call goes .
If the calls are for PD ,FD or EMS ,or a combination .
The cro gets the inital call,and then designates it ,and everyone is dispatched simultaneously .
All operators on the line .
So its more comprehensive than most systems ,and our dispatchers do make small mistakes ,but nothing like that .

Everyone knows you don't put hazards on or lights ,in cases like that . Who doesn't know that if you work in the field ? It draws a target on your back .

edit on 6/20/13 by PtolemyII because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/20/13 by PtolemyII because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Yeah this is sad and someone F'ed up. But it's not just the 911 operators, there are millions of cops in this country that Do NOT know the law. (or have half a brain) I'm saying neither the 911 operators and the cops are trained very well - and how can they be? They have so many laws each cop would have to be a law expert to know 3/4th of them and understand them fully.

But it's not just about laws but proper training. If I call 911 I want to know the fellow on the other end has my back. I want to know he guides me to safety. Why didn't thos 911 operator do this? Sounds to me like he was chastising these people for leaving the scene of the crime and therefore told them they had to return to the scene of the crime.

If you were in a burning building.. wouldn't the 911 operator tell you to get out? There are tons of stories on ATS and around the net that show 911 operators are sometimes not very bright. This guy deserved the chair.. no.. worse.. slow torture by bamboo shoots growing an inch a day up his bum until it kills him. 911 Operators need to take their jobs seriously as if lives are On The Line - because the Are.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I was a 911 police call taker and dispatcher for 5 years. The call takers do not dispatch the officer. They input the call and the dispatcher sends the units based on priority they give them as they receive them. Now, if we knew what notes the operator put in there for the dispatcher then we could place sole blame on the operator. People do get what I call "institutionalized" in these jobs. I have one call I will never forget that involved the death of a child and hearing his mother screaming for help, but I took thousands of calls and after a while it's just too easy to get careless for some of the operators.

I in no way give any excuses for what this operator did and it's obvious they were not using any common sense. I also wonder if it was an issue of bad department policy because it sounds like that to me, and they are the scapegoat.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by Hr2burn
 


While you are entitled to your views about TSA and 911 operators, most of the people I worked with were either college educated, about to go into the academy after college and they worked as dispatchers during college, or have been on the job for a decade or longer and were good at what they did.

I would also like to say that the job is akin to being an octopus with three phones, four or more monitors, 25 phone lines including 911, and citizens calling and wanting you to send an officer to make their 9 year old go to bed or butt dialing you for the 1000th time. Most people who went through the 8 weeks of training before getting into the comm center washed out within a month because they just can't handle the stress. One mistake and you can ruin your job, get someone killed, and then for all the thanks you mainly get angry citizens bitching you out 99% of the time. So, before you start judging others, think about the job and what it entails and oh.. by the way, they usually start out at $10 to $12 per hour. I can see you running up to apply right?



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by UnifiedSerenity
 


It looked like you replied to my OP on that, and your reply makes sense for your background, that's not what brings me to reply. Have you had a moment to look at the stories and actual 911 call transcript that I found later and linked in the top post on this page (page #2) of the thread? I'd be curious on your thoughts, given your background, when taken with this operators precious history of bad judgement and bad outcomes as a result of it ...as well as the overall investigations on the 911 call center in Denver which has apparently led to some major improvements over time?




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