What is that "the christian god"?

oh, I see pbuh = peace be upon him?

I thought now wthell is that?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

Believe what you want, but if you read the Old Testament thoroughly, you'll see where God came to his people with different names and they had to be continually reminded that their God was the same God. Do a Google search for "the many names of God".

Deuteronomy 6:4

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Jesus didn't have the same name in the Old Testament that he did in the New Testament, but you can tell by all of the Old Testament scriptures that he fulfilled pointed to him being the God that they did not recognize from the time of their fathers (such as Abraham).

Now if you want to go off the deep end and say that Jesus didn't say what he said and that a bunch of people just made it all up based on trying to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies themselves, then you just shot down your own self-proclaimed Messiah as well.

what you claim is just conjecture and assumptions.
Yes God has many names but linking that to the idea that Jesus pbuh has a different name in OT is done without any proof. Can you do it without using NT?
Yes i am claiming the people who wrote and copied and recopied NT over centuries knew OT well and knew the prophecies well and could very easily twist things to make it all fit and give amazing conformation to someone who arleady wants to believe and they would never be any wiser if they keep going into the circular logic!

The OT has mention of Messiah and he is Jesus pbuh, no doubt about that.
The whole disagreement is about this strange innovation of making him god!! and spreading that pagan believe all over by force and now billions think its true.
Its true because paul told it, its true because council of nicea voted it as true!! But how truthful and Jesus following were these people?

I am not here to argue with christians about christianity. I just want to clear Jesus pbuh of these claims and blames as he never said them.

reply to post by logical7

I am not here to argue with christians about christianity. I just want to clear Jesus pbuh of these claims and blames as he never said them.

He said them, but as a follower of Allah and Muhammad, you're not going to understand them.

They are written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wherever you see Jesus speak.

Once again, this is part of the mystery of the Bible that I was talking about earlier. Only those who can decipher his words through the power of the Holy Spirit will be able to read them and understand what he said. This was another reason Jesus spoke in parables.

I could list every single verse that Jesus spoke claiming he was God and you'd still tell me that you didn't interpret it that way, when to me it's crystal clear.

I'll leave you with some more of Jesus' words...

Matthew 10:34

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

When Jesus mentions a "sword", he's talking about the Word of God. Look up sword in other verses and you'll know what I'm talking about.

Luke 12:51

51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Jesus obviously knew that his word would bring division. This division will go on until Jesus makes himself known to everyone, which he eventually will.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

Yes i am claiming the people who wrote and copied and recopied NT over centuries knew OT well and knew the prophecies well and could very easily twist things to make it all fit and give amazing conformation to someone who arleady wants to believe and they would never be any wiser if they keep going into the circular logic!

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Islam and Qur'an says.

4:157 That they
said (in
boast), "We
killed Christ
Jesus the
son of Mary, the
Messenger
of Allah";-
but they
killed him
not, nor crucified
him, but so it
was made to
appear to
them, and
those who differ
therein are
full of
doubts, with
no (certain)
knowledge, but only
conjecture
to follow, for
of a surety
they killed
him not:-

And yet you fell in your own words. Muhammad lived centuries after Jesus and died in year 632, so didn´t Muhammad knew the lectures of the Old Testament and the New when he wrote Quran ? He didnt live at same century or the time as the apostles did nor at the time when NT was written. Its easy task to copy and paste i think.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

I am not here to argue with christians about christianity. I just want to clear Jesus pbuh of these claims and blames as he never said them.

He said them, but as a follower of Allah and Muhammad, you're not going to understand them.

C'mon Deet,

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

They are written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wherever you see Jesus speak.

Once again, this is part of the mystery of the Bible that I was talking about earlier. Only those who can decipher his words through the power of the Holy Spirit will be able to read them and understand what he said. This was another reason Jesus spoke in parables.

Jesus did not need to speak in parables for everybody to understand. The parables were for those who did not understand.. by the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by logical7

 

I could list every single verse that Jesus spoke claiming he was God and you'd still tell me that you didn't interpret it that way, when to me it's crystal clear.

You better listed them instantly to get the conversation rolling Dee.

reply to post by Angle


Personally, I hate it when people speak in parables. Tell me the truth straight up, God, and don't sugar coat it!

As for specific Bible verses, I'll copy and paste a few that I posted yesterday trying to show people that the Old Testament God and the New Testament God were the same. Lucky for you, I just did this yesterday and know where to find them, otherwise, I probably wouldn't bother because I know where this conversation is going to lead!

Here you go...

God in the Old Testament (God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the Almighty God)

Genesis 17:1

17 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Genesis 26:24

24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.

Genesis 28:13

13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

Genesis 35:11

11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Exodus 3:6

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Exodus 3:13-14

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

God in the New Testament (Jesus)...

Matthew 5:17

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Matthew 10:34

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 22:32

32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mark 12:26

26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Luke 12:51

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Luke 24:44

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

John 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

reply to post by Angle


Actually, after reviewing those again, I was going for a different message there, so let me pull out just a few others.

John 14:7-9

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Colossians 1:15-17

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Philippians 2:5-11

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

reply to post by Deetermined


Ok, Deet.

But what do we get out of this:

John 5;19: Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

This clearly shows Jesus and God are two seperate beings, but for not contradicting you, I say, Jesus, peace be upon Him.

Also, Jesus died, God cannot die.

I always thought they were the same.

Islam, like Christianity, is an 'Abrahamic religion'. Both claim origin to Abraham. Christianity differs with the Trinity interpretation but I don't see how that would make it a different creator god. Metaphysically both religions believe one god created everything. You can say one religion is false sure, but both are essentially referring to the same god.

For instance Deists believe in a creator god. They would dismiss the validity of all the bibles. Yet they believe in a creator god as Christianity and Islam does. Would you say it's a different creator god? Doesn't make much sense. All you could really say is 'hey look I have some revealed truth about that creator god'. So Christianity and Islam are merely arguing over who has the 'right' reveled truth. Same god out of necessity to the fact its the creator. My thoughts anyways.

reply to post by dollukka

Muhammad knew the lectures of the Old Testament and the New when he wrote Quran ?

maybe you should know that he was illiterate!!
He couldn't read or write. The whole Qur'an was memorised by him and his companions and was later written down.

It also is odd of him to go against both jews and christian belief about Jesus pbuh if he made up a religion and just wanted more followers.

In Islam, Jesus pbuh is the Messiah which jews don't agree to and he is not god, to which christians take offence.

You will be surprised as to how many so called catholic christians actually have an islamic belief, they just don't know that its the islamic belief!!
Because the Church kept people in dark about Islam in earlier centuries and now all the misinformation being dumped on Internet against it.

When you need lies to defame an enemy then, the enemy maybe holding some very important truths! Or it maybe not an ememy AT ALL!!!

Yes, and what 'they' tried to achieve with witholding the Qu'ran, they did not succeed in. .......

Originally posted by Angle
So, HA HA HA, there are people around here, who claim being "christians" and having a "christian god".

1. Fact: God is god, and God adressed often in the Bible, is God adressed in the Qu'ran.

moeHA HA HA; then you have these same ones, 'christians', spouting... your "islamic" god blablablabla all nonsense about it, my "christian god" is so much better.

MKAY

The bible as well as the Qu'ran both say there is only one god, mainly God.

I'll be on my guard..

edit on 18-6-2013 by Angle because: (no reason given)

The existing One is the existing one no matter human view of it be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Sufi. The source for all religious belief but not trapped by human ideas of what it should be. Human religion is flawed and dogmatic from my point of view when it gets trapped in duality. The my view is better than your view.

Christ's sacrifice was that propitiation. God hates sin, He cannot even look upon sin. When Jesus cried out on the cross, "Why have you forsaken me?", it was because at that moment Jesus took on all sins of the world, past, present, and future, and was so embroiled with the sins of mankind that not even his Father in Heaven could look upon him.

I have my own theory on that one. I think Jesus lost the sense on his crown chakra (or whatever name you want to call the feeling on top of the head) temporary since the body was shuting down and exhausted. I will never let Jesus take my burden because it is mine to fix, but if he want to guide me or say hi then he is welcome. . Jesus is a little one (soul brother) and that is the biggest compliment you can give a soul from my point of view.

reply to post by Angle

John 5;19: Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

No, it only means that he's the mirror image of the Father in heaven. His higher self.

Here's another verse...

John 10:17-18

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

reply to post by Angle


Why should i get in a debate with two groups of people so blind that it makes them both look ignorant?

Originally posted by JDmOKI
reply to post by Angle

 

Why should i get in a debate with two groups of people so blind that it makes them both look ignorant?

Be Judged with the same measure you Judge with.

Peace.

reply to post by Angle


I will be judged by the golden rule. Its really not that hard

Originally posted by JDmOKI
reply to post by Angle

 

I will be judged by the golden rule. Its really not that hard

.... denying it? I thought I'd finish the sentence. Or did you just got used to it?

The golden rule is one is Judged by the measure he/she judges with.

reply to post by Angle


Hmmm so I'm my own judge. Good, I wouldn't have it any other way.

philosophical enough?

reply to post by Angle

HA HA HA

you have received many angry responses towards your thread, and you will receive even more after you read the end of this sentence.

HA HA HA

MKAY