WAR: Zarqawi Group Posts Video of Attack on UK Troops

Like most other offerings in its genre, it is heavily chopped and assembled with apparent lack of concern for logical sequencing, continuity or coherency.

Of course, maybe I'm misjudging it because there were no subtitles.

I don't think I need to listen to what they're saying, however, to get the message.

Val,

Do you think this could be footage from an unrelated incident..?
Possibly having nothing to do with the Brits that were killed?

Originally posted by spacedoubt

Originally posted by cstyle226
It's not music. It's prayer. It sounds like music to Americans, but it's actually prayer.
Try to think of things from more than your own angle.

All music is prayer. One way or another, it is.

My point was that the voices were professional. The harmonies were of
people who can ALL carry a tune. Prayer or music, whichever.
If it SOUNDS LIKE MUSIC, it IS music.
Is your opinion that these are average voices? or a more professional group?

It's not my opinion, it's a fact. They are not a "group." I am a Muslim, and I don't how else to explain it to you, other than I know.

If you ever hear the prayer being broadcast over the speakers from the mosques in Iraq during the battle of Fallujah, you will hear that it has a musical rhythm to it, but it is not music.

Cstyle

Please define Music for me.

I totally understand what you are saying about the prayer thing.
I've heard it as well.
But what I am saying is the voices are too good..
The Praying, or singing voices, are better than average. Can you hear what I mean?...I'm gonna give it another listen, and I'll post again..

Space

Majic

Like most other offerings in its genre, it is heavily chopped and assembled with apparent lack of concern for logical sequencing, continuity or coherency.

Yeah, but it still doesn't answer Val's question about gathering the remains...unless they were so unafraid of being caught filming that they took their time videoing the arm.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Val,

Do you think this could be footage from an unrelated incident..?
Possibly having nothing to do with the Brits that were killed?

This would explain several things that don't seem to make sense.

I think Val went to that deep place where she gets answers and sorts things out, so she'll probably be incommunicado for awhile...

Just because the quality is so good, doesn't mean it can't be prayer. My assumption would be that the Mujahideen listen to the prayers, as they prepare for fight.

A lot of prayer that I've heard sounds like that. It's supposed to be like that. You can read it anyway you want, it's the words that matter.

Also, they put it on the videos as part of the recruiting process.

[edit on 8-11-2004 by cstyle226]

OK, OK....

Professional PRAY-ERS..Whatever...It's all music to me...
SO I guess these Professional PRAY-ERS are ok with what their PRAY-ING was used for? Or, not.. What do you think..?

Absolutely, they are defending their land from an invasion army.

From Babylon to Baghdad, these people have been under constant attack from various empires for a minimum of 4000 years. They are used to it.

Whether it was the Persians, Ottomans (which I am a descendant of), British, and now the Americans, it doesn't matter...

Occupiers face resistance, and the resistance will not stop.

Gotcha, I understand that.

So they are terrorists as well...Thats all I was trying to get at..
It might be a good idea to find out in what studio this recording was made.
Surely, others may have this recording in their posession?

Lol...I don't think you understand, yet.

There is no "recording studio" where you can find trace or find them, and I'm sure tons of people have it, on CD no less.

They are just praying, and they support their people. Tracking down the the people that pray will do nothing. I think you are grasping for nothing with this idea.

And the reason the resistance will not be stopped is because every person you kill will be replaced, while the Coalition has a limited number of willing fighters.

I am willing to bet that you are wrong about that.
The video had some professional qualities, as did the audio.
It was too "sweet" to be done in someones garage..

Are there any popular CD's or tapes of this Muslim Prayer/singing?
If so, were they all just Off the cuff, or were any done professionally?

Yes there are...if you want some samples go on Shareaza or something and download and check them out.

Originally posted by cstyle226
Absolutely, they are defending their land from an invasion army.

From Babylon to Baghdad, these people have been under constant attack from various empires for a minimum of 4000 years. They are used to it.

Whether it was the Persians, Ottomans (which I am a descendant of), British, and now the Americans, it doesn't matter...

Occupiers face resistance, and the resistance will not stop.

Couple of questions for cstyle - Would you like to see a sovereign, democratically elected government in place in Iraq? Would you like to see the multinational force leave Iraq in the near future?

Who exactly do you want to see running Iraq? Perhaps Saddam should be put back in power, or should the country be handed over to Al Zaqawi and friends?

Originally posted by mattpryor
Couple of questions for cstyle - Would you like to see a sovereign, democratically elected government in place in Iraq?

Absolutely. Do I believe the government the US installs will last? No.

Would you like to see the multinational force leave Iraq in the near future?

How about now? Let the Iraqi Mujahideen fight for their country, and the rest will work itself out. Now that statement may be the one that everyoen scoffs at, but the reason I say it is because the only legitimate government that will ever take hold in Iraq will be one of their own, at their own time, when they're ready. Forcing it on them won't do it. Maybe after the elections, and then after the US leaves, it'll last for a little while. But then the new "leader" will be killed, and it will return to the old ways.

Who exactly do you want to see running Iraq? Perhaps Saddam should be put back in power, or should the country be handed over to Al Zaqawi and friends?

Saddam was in power because he was the only one who could keep chaos from breaking out, yet he was a tyrant as well. I'd like to see an Iraqi running Iraq, chosen by them, at their own time.


The problem with the US is that it's motives are not as pure as you would like to believe. Sure, in a magical world, where people hand out cookies and flowers, and give everyone hugs, the US has come in like a knight in shining armor to rescue the Iraqi people from Saddam?

If Saddam being so awful was the reason for the invasion, and not the missing WMD that was originally claimed, what happened back in the 80's when Saddam was being helped by the US?

Did you assume that by helping Saddam, he would cut deals on his oil? But then when he made his own oil grab in Kuwait, he had to be stopped. THEN, it was decided that he wouldn't be friendly and help the oil barons in the UK and US, so his time is over, and the next tyrant will be installed...a friendly one, like in Saudi Arabia.

What about Saudi Arabia? Be nice to them because, even though they oppress their people, they let you build bases, and take their oil, not to mention holding hands with Bush like girlfriends, and sharing $$$$.

It's all corruption, on damn near every side. That's why I support the Mujahideen.

Let the Iraqi Mujahideen fight for their country, and the rest will work itself out. Now that statement may be the one that everyoen scoffs at, but the reason I say it is because the only legitimate government that will ever take hold in Iraq will be one of their own, at their own time, when they're ready. Forcing it on them won't do it.

You contradict yourself in your own statement - how can you force a country into democracy? The very nature of democracy is freedom of choice and freedom of speech. 90% of the public in Iraq have expressed an intent to vote in January, which indicates to me that they very much want to elect their own government. When they place their vote in the elections it will be of their own free will. Nobody will tell them who to elect.

It seems to me that most people in Iraq want to solve their disagreements regarding the country's problems through peaceful dialogue. The only exception is the insurgents, who seem to just want to kill and destroy. The same people who have the most to lose from a democratically elected government.

The problem with the US is that it's motives are not as pure as you would like to believe. Sure, in a magical world, where people hand out cookies and flowers, and give everyone hugs, the US has come in like a knight in shining armor to rescue the Iraqi people from Saddam?

Well no governments do anything for truly altruistic reasons, granted, but I think on the whole yes, western foreign policy is based on a concept of "doing the right thing", particularly where strategic aims coincide with a good cause. I honestly don't believe that any politician who is publically accountable would pay the price in human life, not to mention the staggering monetary cost, for motives such as greed.

As for the west supporting Saddam in the 80s - he was the lesser of two evils. Saddam's brand of Stalinist monocracy was seen as less terrifying than Iran. This has been discussed a million times and there's little point in trying to change your mind. But times change, that was then, this was now.

Saddam was in power because he was the only one who could keep chaos from breaking out

The only chaos I can see in Iraq at the moment is at the hands of the so-called Mujahideen...

[edit on 9-11-2004 by mattpryor]

There are reports that the bombing was carried out by a white European.

thisislondon.co.uk

A senior military source in Iraq said: "The bomber was Caucasian. That means he could be from anywhere between Bosnia to Birmingham. We don't know any more because there wasn't much left of him.

"But it confirms our fears that the Black Watch are now up against foreign terrorists."

I'm a little confused. This from the Reuters article posted by Um_Gazz

The three soldiers and an Iraqi translator were killed when the car bomber attacked their checkpoint south of Baghdad in the first suicide attack on UK forces in Iraq.

This from the article quoted by AceOfBase:

A video of the attack - which left eight Black Watch soldiers injured and a civilian Iraqi interpreter dead - has been aired on an extremists' website.

So, were 3 Brits killed, or no Brits killed? And the arm that was desecrated, was probably from the Iraqi interpreter? although I guess someone could possibly survive that kind of wound, given immediate medical treatment...

Originally posted by jsobecky
So, were 3 Brits killed, or no Brits killed? And the arm that was desecrated, was probably from the Iraqi interpreter? although I guess someone could possibly survive that kind of wound, given immediate medical treatment...

The text above the lines you quoted says three Black Watch soldiers were killed, they went on to say that eight more were injured and a translator was killed also.

The suicide bomber responsible for the death of three Black Watch soldiers last week is thought to be a white Europe-based al Qaida terrorist.

A video of the attack - which left eight Black Watch soldiers injured and a civilian Iraqi interpreter dead - has been aired on an extremists' website.

You're right - my bad. Three killed, eight injured, plus the interpreter killed.