I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Serdgiam

In my life, I have found it near impossible to deny how powerful the teachings of Jesus are. When you simplify it, all of the great men and women of history have had the same simple message, from Mother Theresa, to MLK, to Ghandi, and so many more.

I would recommend that you read the book god is not Great, by Christopher Hitchens.

He starts out as one of the witnesses of Mother Theresa's "miracle" then served as "Devil's Advocate" in the Papal Court's investigation of said "miracle".

Somewhere in this thread I believe I've already quoted about MLK, and in chapter 13 Ghandi is also discussed along with MLK. Things aren't quite what they are often presented as being.

While I enjoy exploring others perspectives, I much prefer to do it actively through discourse. I have very little interest, at this point, of just reading the ramblings of another unless they are speaking to me. This changes when math is involved, since subjectivity takes more of a back seat.

Just my thing.

I truly believe "Love one another," is a law of the universe.

Eros is certainly interacting with Chaos. Love one another may be a strong law of the universe, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the only law however. (heresy, I know)

We probably have different views on what I am speaking about with "Love." In fact, I would almost guarantee it. Hint: It has nothing to do with any emotion or carnal impulse whatsoever.

I never said its the only law either, would you mind expanding on where that came from?

reply to post by Serdgiam

I never said its the only law either, would you mind expanding on where that came from?

My misunderstanding from first reading of your post. By the third reading I realized my error. Sorry, those things happen.

Your statement here:

Perhaps a bit more complex of one than, say, physics.. since it involves what we know as free will. But, the results are amazingly consistent when choosing for or against this one principle.

clarified the fact that I misunderstood. Again, sorry.

reply to post by Serdgiam

We probably have different views on what I am speaking about with "Love." In fact, I would almost guarantee it. Hint: It has nothing to do with any emotion or carnal impulse whatsoever.

I feel that, much like "God", love and the "law of love" is a clumsy human translation of a much more simplistic and pervasive law of physics, a principle really. We describe it as "love" and as "God" because these are the only things we know of that are similar.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I feel that, much like "God", love and the "law of love" is a clumsy human translation of a much more simplistic and pervasive law of physics, a principle really. We describe it as "love" and as "God" because these are the only things we know of that are similar.

Of course!

Thats what we do with literally everything. We *have* to put it into the human context because we are human.

Science is only a human interpretation of what exists, religion is only a human interpretation of what exists, etc.

The amazing part is even in such a limited context, look at how many variables exist.

Simple, complex, convoluted, clumsy, are all human contexts. None are relevant to "what is," only to us Humies. And yet, those contexts themselves are also a part of "what is."

Quite amazing really...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

You never know what might come of your actions. It is almost never what you think it is going to be, but each one of our little contributions to the world changes it forever.

Obviously nothing constructive or productive. My friend is now drinking himself into hysteria, claiming that he lied and he loves Jesus. He's got some problems he needs to deal with, I guess, and atheism just doesn't do it for him in his intoxicated state. Thanks for the support though.

edit on 29-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Jesus is not God he is human and just the messager of the WORD of God. You can believe in the Man that is Jesus, and still be an athiest.

Jesus is God AND the message, as an athiest you deny both the man; the message and God.

Jesus is God, in the same manner you are God, ITS expression as a human being, To be an athiest is to deny ones own self existance.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


That's not a commonly accepted form of theism, particularly within the major religions. You know this.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
To be an athiest is to deny ones own self existence.

Well, this.

reply to post by HarryTZ


See my previous post. What you are suggesting is a highly unorthodox theism.

reply to post by Serdgiam


I SO hope you got applause for this, Serdg.

AFTER ;INFINITY: in my opinion, (as a therapist, not as a veteran converter-to-atheism) you were the "trigger" for this new-found 'doubt' in Acooper's mind.

It is said that our bodies "renew" every 7 years, biologically (cell-wise and so-forth). It is ALSO said that our SOULS, or minds, "renew" at that same interval. Age 49, therefore, is a big deal.

We also know that kids move from early childhood to latent at 7, enter adolescence by 14, become "youths" at 21, and achieve 'brain maturity' at around 25-30. MANY A RELATIONSHIP falls apart during the "7-year-ache", and many a child turns from a seeming angel to a raging beast at about 14. They start to simmer down ~21.....finish school.....begin addressing real adulthood.

This process doesn't stop. 42ish begins mid-life crisis time. 49.....reconciling our lives with our past. Dealing with our histories, our dreams lost, interests changed, role in life drifted (from child to kid to adolescent to youth to parent/working adult, to parent of teens, to empty nester....

Life is a cycle of developmental stages. Your friend is entering his post-mid-life phase, with MUCH soul-searching to do. I hope he has adequate time to do so without having to run in circles trying just to keep up with 'responsibilities.' I turned 50 in 2008. Right before that, I retired. It will be 5 years here very soon....a couple of months from now.

It has taken EVERY DAY of those 5 years to get my head together. I have been lethargic, morose, inert, but always thinking, learning, fiercely studying, writing, reading, ....
first I put together my family's geneaology on both sides...then I wrote a novel based on the 'people' I discovered doing so. In the process, I delved into intensive study of the period of time in question (pre-English Civil War). In the process, I learned a GREAT deal about the history of the Christian religion - from its arrival in England to (medieval) feudal days of cathedral building and subsistence farming, up to now.

My father died right as I finished the first "complete draft" - it was 700-some pages long.
This brought back my misgivings and concentration to religion AGAIN, in many ways.....
and now I'm out of that "thicket" and back into an open meadow.

I hope your friend will persevere. THE GOD VIRUS is an excellent little book to help out. Written by Dr Darrel Ray, the same guy who founded RecoveryfromReligion. It is a day's read; and will explain a LOT to mr cooper. I hope he will take advantage of those excellent tools to help him regain his balance.


EDIT: (Wow. Thanks, guys. I'm honored by the feedback in my absence...which I found AFTER this reply was posted, when I went back to the post I replied to here and kept reading. I value you BOTH as important - and friends - kindred souls - in my quest! *blushes*)

reply to post by wildtimes


His perseverance will happen on his own time. He's still drinking; why, I don't know. It's hard to get any kind of coherent answer out of his rambling rabbity monologues. I don't know what it is or if I caused it - this isn't the first time he's relapsed into one of his stupors. He has a system that he is able to fall back on with some degree of regularity...I think it's trying to hide from something, but he won't tell me what it is, and every time he promises me he won't, he breaks that promise. Hell, he just broke a promise to me in the last couple of days, even after I impressed upon him the importance of keeping his word in this matter. I asked him to sober up, and he refused even after saying he would. So I'm thinking he's lost to my influence for the time being.

As such, I'm washing my hands of it and leaving him to fight this particular battle on his own, because I know my presence will do nothing but make him more comfortable with what he's doing. And that's something I can't do.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You are right to leave him to his own devices. All we can do is make suggestions, my friend. You can't control him in any way at all. He will - he DOES - HAVE TO FIND HIS OWN WAY....
his own path through the forest of his life. Yours has crossed his, and you stopped and spoke for a bit, then you went back to YOUR path, which no one else can walk, and he is back on HIS path, which you can't join.

All we can do is shout out hints and suggestions to those within earshot - but they HAVE TO TAKE their own path, all the same.
You did good.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


It's neither theism nor atheism (though I'd say its closer to atheism than theism).
It's mysticism.

reply to post by HarryTZ

It's neither theism nor atheism (though I'd say its closer to atheism than theism).
It's mysticism.

Not if you acknowledge the existence of a god in any form or capacity.

Jesus is God, in the same manner you are God, ITS expression as a human being, To be an athiest is to deny ones own self existance.

This is what Vethumanbeing posted. This is what you agreed with. And yet you say this philosophy lies outside the realm of "god or no god". If it's not a god, then what is it? Are we just the molecular components of a divine projection? Where does this projection originate? What being, entity, or phenomena serves as the source?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

That's not a commonly accepted form of theism, particularly within the major religions. You know this.

I do not belong to any religon, major/minor or anywhere inbetween therefore I have the freedom to understand my relationship with a creator on my own terms.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

I do not belong to any religon, major/minor or anywhere inbetween therefore I have the freedom to understand my relationship with a creator on my own terms.

The reasons for my response are explained, at least briefly, in my previous post.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

It's neither theism nor atheism (though I'd say its closer to atheism than theism).
It's mysticism.

Not if you acknowledge the existence of a god in any form or capacity.

Jesus is God, in the same manner you are God, ITS expression as a human being, To be an athiest is to deny ones own self existance.

This is what Vethumanbeing posted. This is what you agreed with. And yet you say this philosophy lies outside the realm of "god or no god". If it's not a god, then what is it? Are we just the molecular components of a divine projection? Where does this projection originate? What being, entity, or phenomena serves as the source?

I didnt see any handshake agreement in that statement. HarryTZ is expressing something beyond rightous march step dogma, a more esoteric idea of a Creatorform. Anything that is created has a concerted majical element to it, as no one can explain the actual animation of the object (human), birth yes but what animates it? Spirit, what is that? Death=the leaving/vacating of that spirtform from that body. Are you molecular componets of the devine, a projection of PURE INTENT? What being serves as the source; certainly NOT the one that desires 'worship'. Perhaps you have your Gods mixed up and is why you are an Atheist.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

It's neither theism nor atheism (though I'd say its closer to atheism than theism).
It's mysticism.

Not if you acknowledge the existence of a god in any form or capacity.

Jesus is God, in the same manner you are God, ITS expression as a human being, To be an athiest is to deny ones own self existance.

This is what Vethumanbeing posted. This is what you agreed with. And yet you say this philosophy lies outside the realm of "god or no god". If it's not a god, then what is it? Are we just the molecular components of a divine projection? Where does this projection originate? What being, entity, or phenomena serves as the source?

edit on 30-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

The word 'god' is irrelevant because it implies that there is something else. It is simply used because it is a familiar concept. Other words and phrases that are used to describe it are:

The One
Existence
Consciousness
The Spirit
The Void
Infinity
The Absolute

Normally the word 'god' denotes an entity of worship. That cannot be because there is only one existence, one spirit.

reply to post by HarryTZ


So in your opinion, the condition of existence inherently introduces divinity? And if so, to what degree?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

So in your opinion, the condition of existence inherently introduces divinity? And if so, to what degree?

Im intruding here. The condition of existence does not introduce any sort of devine nature automatically. You are NOT upon self-realisation (as in you begin to recognise yourself in a mirror at age 3) aware you are an immortal soul/spirit. This has nothing to do with the Divine, that would be appropriating God, devotion to, relegation. Proceeding from God, Godlike. If one understands itself to be part and particle, the condition of Divinity as an adjective doesnt apply.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Am I a particle of a homogeneous entity?