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I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

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posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

Dear charles,
thank you for the correspondence.

One, did you get the impression that he wanted to talk about anything other than "Why Atheism is a better choice than Catholicism?" I understand there were sub-questions and alternate phrasings, but was that the root, the sum, of what he wanted to discuss?

In my opinion? No, not really. AfterInfinity has a tenet that he adheres to in MANY threads and posts. He is angry at how religion has made "God" into a tyrannical despot in the eyes and worldviews of MANY - I don't know his details, but I do believe his heart is in the right place. His reasons for making the thread appear to be that he

A) wanted to offer an example of how suggesting that someone struggling with their "belief system", using reason and common sense and open-minded review, can help a person escape from a (for them) suffocating and disheartening worldview.

and

B) wanted to point out that atheists are just as able to function in the world and have self-confidence, morals, a good heart, and a worthwhile life, WITHOUT having to adhere to a 'faith' in something that can not be proven.


Two, you mentioned that the ideas he planted might some day take root. This may be a result of some blindness on my part, but what were the positive ideas beyond "Atheism is better than Catholicism because . . .?"


It is my opinion that religion is not required for "good living", and I believe he shares that opinion. For HIM, atheism is better than [religion] because it has the effect of freeing the mind from "fear" imposed by "priests" based on conjecture and a selective interpretation of the Bible.

For some people, this does not happen. Many people find hope, comfort, and focus in religion. Not all people do, however. And I think his point is/was that those who do adhere to a "structured and packaged" faith BUT do so out of "fear", "obligation", or "indoctrination" are compliant for the wrong reasons. They do not find religion to be "uplifting".

For my part, I don't think religion is required for good living. And when it instills - into some people - fear, self-loathing, worthlessness, and certain "doom" unless they follow strict set of "rules" of ritual and conduct, it is counter-productive to self-acceptance, and an unrestrained freedom to approach the world in their own unique way.


I've tried, and I hope have succeeded in treating him well, but if you noticed a failing on my part, please mention it so I can avoid it in the future.

I think you did fine, charles. You are a fair and approachable member. AfterInfinity seems, to me, to be a more intense and passionate character, and he wants to get his point across.

The bottom line is that religion doesn't work for everyone. And it's important for us each to allow everyone else to find their own way. There is no "absolute right way" and "absolute wrong way" to look at the mysteries of life. We each need to feel we have room to breathe, time to consider, and the privilege of changing tack when we feel it would be appropriate to do so for OUR OWN BEST INTERESTS.

This may sound "self-indulgent" to some, but for those of us who felt stifled, misunderstood, judged without reason, and forever inadequate, and were instructed to recite that we were "not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs from under [God's] table", and needed to be "forgiven" for things we left undone (what things, please?) or things we did (what things, please?), it can be damaging to self-esteem and ability to contribute to society with confidence and happy participation.

All the best to you, dear Charles,
~wildtimes


edit on 28-6-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



Congratulations and goodbye. I'm heading out, because I don't feel like I care to watch this bullcrap go on anymore. You've all been a huge disappointment. This chance for you to show decorum and intelligence has turned into a poo-throwing contest the likes of which would have terrified King King. I'm ashamed to have witnessed it.


WOW! Way to appreciated the guests and contributors to your little ego party of a thread! Atheists also "reap what they sow" it a universal law!


edit on 28-6-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I think its also important to note that religion does NOT have a stranglehold on the concept of "God."

Many who are against religion, also discard the idea of a God/s inherently when they discard religion. Many also discard any type of spirituality and anything like it. I just think its important for everyone to understand that these things are simply not exclusive to religion in any way, shape, or form. Though, most religions would have you believe otherwise since such ideas are "bad for business."

I think the important part is that we seek the answers on our own, and even if we use some type of structure for guidance (whether it is catholicism, atheism, or buddhism), it is a personal walk on our own paths and we need to find our own way. Thats just how vast, complex, and amazing this universe is..
edit on 28-6-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


VERY important. I wish I could give you more than one star, Serdg. Glad you came back.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity


I'm doing my best to get this thread deleted because I would prefer to forget about this ugly side of some members I used to respect so much. Turns out, the respect was never mutual.

It probably would be much easier to have the thread closed by the mods rather than deleted.

I appreciate the time you have taken with this thread. Thank you. You could use a nice break about now.

I for one appreciate the fact that people can change their minds and outlooks on life. We are not locked in to whatever belief system we were born into or raised up in. We can change.

Thank you again. Ask the mods to close the thread.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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Each thread is an experience by contributing to the experience of the site itself,this way improving the future in an evolution from which we all can learn something.



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





Originally posted by Joecroft
Read what I wrote again, I said “kept deliberately out of our view, by the OP”




Originally posted by AfterInfinity
As in, physically restrained or psychologically manipulated. Read MY post again.


I and many other posters have asked you questions regarding your OP, and all they have received in return, is vague answers and angry attacks. Attacks which were completely unfounded, and unnecessary.




Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You're the fool for not being specific. This is all a game to you.


For crying out loud, all I did was ask 2 clarifying questions to try and help piece together Mr coopers journey.

I was specific, I said “by the OP”, that’s being specific.

Your just an argumentative fool, who’s attacked just about everyone on this thread, who’s enquired about your OP.



Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Read my post again, and quote the part where I decided for him. Quote me where I said that. Or are you putting words in my mouth AGAIN?





Originally posted by AfterInfinity
If he's not posting, it's because you are not important to him.


Here it is above, YOU decided the reason, why He thinks it’s not important, to respond to me. That decision should come from your friend only, not you...



Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Two golden nuggets in a barrel of cow pies still equals a barrel of cow pies. I put the very useful and good quality barrel there and stood by as others dumped load after load after load of cow pies into it, and you drop a few coins in and consider yourself good? That's a pitiful effort.



Hello!!!…

I’ve been kindly waiting for his response, while all this time being given the run around, by your vague responses…

All you have done on this thread is attack people, in an angry manner. I don’t even know how anyone on this thread, can possibly defend your conduct and general bad attitude.

No wonder you want the thread deleted, so you can sweep it all under the carpet…




Originally posted by AfterInfinity
All you did was ask questions and trade jibes and accusations.
No, the experience was not worthwhile to him. I talk to him, I discuss this thread with him, I know what he has to say. He's not very satisfied at all.


Well, why didn’t you post that earlier. Maybe even give an extract or statement as to your friends feelings and views on the subject etc…?



Originally posted by AfterInfinity
You want a reason he hasn't responded? I just gave it to you. It's just not worthwhile. I convinced him to give it a try and he did. And decided he didn't like it. Maybe you should have pulled together a more sincere welcoming committee for him. As it is, he no longer feels welcome. And that just takes all the fun right out of it, don't it?


That’s fine. I was never pressuring him to respond to me anyway, the only reason I mentioned it, is because you (unfounded attack again) accused me of not having made any good contribution, to this thread. If he doesn’t want to respond, I totally respect that.

Besides, my other 2 clarifying questions were mainly directed at you.




Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Congratulations and goodbye. I'm heading out, because I don't feel like I care to watch this bullcrap go on anymore. You've all been a huge disappointment. This chance for you to show decorum and intelligence has turned into a poo-throwing contest the likes of which would have terrified King King. I'm ashamed to have witnessed it.


Not sure why you’re aiming a general statement, at others, in response to my post.

Anyway, I’m ashamed to have witnessed how you have interacted with so many posters on this thread. And you should be too…

You’ve been the huge disappointment, don’t blame others, blame yourself…

- JC

edit on 28-6-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by wildtimes
 

Dear wildtimes,

As AfterInfinity has left us, may I turn to you as a relatively neutral observer?
I have two questions. One, did you get the impression that he wanted to talk about anything other than "Why Atheism is a better choice than Catholicism?" I understand there were sub-questions and alternate phrasings, but was that the root, the sum, of what he wanted to discuss?
Two, you mentioned that the ideas he planted might some day take root. This may be a result of some blindness on my part, but what were the positive ideas beyond "Atheism is better than Catholicism because . . .?"

I've tried, and I hope have succeeded in treating him well, but if you noticed a failing on my part, please mention it so I can avoid it in the future With respect,Charles1952


Charles; as a neutral observer as well I watched some sort of self destruction happening. The central point of the OP statement was as you say, ATHEISM is the better choice for this Phantom (A. Cooper) personality, yet never addressed the "WHY", or gave any information as to how the transformation occured? I was interested in how this was managed. You take the opportunity to destroy the belief of an entire system based in 'FAITH' (did AfterInfinity not know this simple premise) ? HOW DOES ONE morally; with good concience "change"?? anothers faith (I am speaking of the humans faith IN ITSELF and how it relates to God as well) and succeed. Then to gloat about it as BenReclused spoke of/to. Problem with Atheism, and I asked AI where the joy resided, the answer I recieved was a very short TERSE--"because it makes you free" no further explaination as to why does it make the Athiest feel free? In my back and forth posts I experienced a very short fuse, and unwillingness to answer simple query; a defense stance that would rival any front line in the NFL. I was not the only one to ask these things. What also surprised me was the equality of vitrol spewed at contributors to this thread , you would have thought maybe I was ranked at 98%, you at 0%--nothing in your posts was anything but diplomatic and SINCERE, it actually shocked me, the progressive meltdown of the last 40 pages.
edit on 28-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



Congratulations and goodbye. I'm heading out, because I don't feel like I care to watch this bullcrap go on anymore. You've all been a huge disappointment. This chance for you to show decorum and intelligence has turned into a poo-throwing contest the likes of which would have terrified King King. I'm ashamed to have witnessed it.


WOW! Way to appreciated the guests and contributors to your little ego party of a thread! Atheists also "reap what they sow" it a universal law!


Well, as was said earlier in the thread, if your going to wear "Angry Pants" all of time, expect some cooling tomato cream pies to lofted in your direction.
edit on 28-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by charles1952
 

Dear charles,
thank you for the correspondence.

One, did you get the impression that he wanted to talk about anything other than "Why Atheism is a better choice than Catholicism?" I understand there were sub-questions and alternate phrasings, but was that the root, the sum, of what he wanted to discuss?

In my opinion? No, not really. AfterInfinity has a tenet that he adheres to in MANY threads and posts. He is angry at how religion has made "God" into a tyrannical despot in the eyes and worldviews of MANY - I don't know his details, but I do believe his heart is in the right place. His reasons for making the thread appear to be that he

A) wanted to offer an example of how suggesting that someone struggling with their "belief system", using reason and common sense and open-minded review, can help a person escape from a (for them) suffocating and disheartening worldview.

and

B) wanted to point out that atheists are just as able to function in the world and have self-confidence, morals, a good heart, and a worthwhile life, WITHOUT having to adhere to a 'faith' in something that can not be proven.


Two, you mentioned that the ideas he planted might some day take root. This may be a result of some blindness on my part, but what were the positive ideas beyond "Atheism is better than Catholicism because . . .?"


It is my opinion that religion is not required for "good living", and I believe he shares that opinion. For HIM, atheism is better than [religion] because it has the effect of freeing the mind from "fear" imposed by "priests" based on conjecture and a selective interpretation of the Bible.

For some people, this does not happen. Many people find hope, comfort, and focus in religion. Not all people do, however. And I think his point is/was that those who do adhere to a "structured and packaged" faith BUT do so out of "fear", "obligation", or "indoctrination" are compliant for the wrong reasons. They do not find religion to be "uplifting".

For my part, I don't think religion is required for good living. And when it instills - into some people - fear, self-loathing, worthlessness, and certain "doom" unless they follow strict set of "rules" of ritual and conduct, it is counter-productive to self-acceptance, and an unrestrained freedom to approach the world in their own unique way.


I've tried, and I hope have succeeded in treating him well, but if you noticed a failing on my part, please mention it so I can avoid it in the future.

I think you did fine, charles. You are a fair and approachable member. AfterInfinity seems, to me, to be a more intense and passionate character, and he wants to get his point across.

The bottom line is that religion doesn't work for everyone. And it's important for us each to allow everyone else to find their own way. There is no "absolute right way" and "absolute wrong way" to look at the mysteries of life. We each need to feel we have room to breathe, time to consider, and the privilege of changing tack when we feel it would be appropriate to do so for OUR OWN BEST INTERESTS.

This may sound "self-indulgent" to some, but for those of us who felt stifled, misunderstood, judged without reason, and forever inadequate, and were instructed to recite that we were "not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs from under [God's] table", and needed to be "forgiven" for things we left undone (what things, please?) or things we did (what things, please?), it can be damaging to self-esteem and ability to contribute to society with confidence and happy participation.


AfterInfinity has problems with Mans IDEA of an Ultimate God that it percieves to have indoctrinated itself as a total belief system, FALSE onto MAN a dictator, (as much as it can descibe within its nature; and very personal). The problem if a Pagan, is defining which one has been overlooked? the Green Man? who knows, its the idea that there is only ONE God (most believe in and IT HAS THE SAME NAME, different monikers for different territories Budda, Allah, Yahweh etc...). Man created a Godform because it believed it to exist. God is Man/Man is God in expression, so of course this would be the ultimate outcome, God recognising Man as itself and visa-versa. AfterInfinity has a problem with recognision, it is as well THE expression of its creator, how else would it exist. The other thing is qualifying the horrible things mankind has had to endure without "Gods intervention" and the allowance of the suffering endured. It would seem unconscienable, and IS if looking with the perspective of child parent (#1 rule keep me safe); Im not sure that rule extends to keeping the human safe from itself, IT has to learn the rules of engagement (all by itself) grow up and be civil to each other in finality. This thread has demonstated the best and worst of human nature, and I would like it to continue.
edit on 28-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 01:07 AM
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I bet if you asked Charles, do you believe in Our Lord's presence in the most Holy Eucharist? He would shout yes!

For a flip of the thread title...

+ + +

A prominent atheist blogger converts to Catholicism

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 02:08 AM
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I'm sorry I wasn't in earlier, but I've spent the day in a conference and expect to continue until mid-Sunday.

Dear wildtimes,

I believe someone can be a good person without God or religion. Are you surprised that I agree with you?

We all have a "natural law" in our hearts, that is consistent throughout cultures and the centuries. Dishonesty, theft, immodesty (whatever that means in a particular culture), selfishness toward the poor, the visitor, the elderly. They're all condemned by our very being without reference to any religion. People who follow that "law" can be good people, regardless of their faith or lack of it.

The Church teaches that those who have never even heard of God, Jesus, or the Church have a place in God's plan of salvation. I would maintain that a belief in God and the teachings of the Church aid us in our travel to be "good people" in the truest sense.

Now that might be an interesting discussion, but I suspect it won't be had in this thread. I, also, feel sadness for AfterInfinity. There is too much anger, hurt, and need in his heart. I hope he takes that as a sign that something is wrong and needs to be looked into, I can only pray for it.

Dear Colbe,

Yes, I believe that the Real Presence is found in the Host. My feeling about it is a personal thing, but I accept the truth of it. It is a Catholic truth, and I do not usually discuss it with fellow Christians, or others, because it is beyond cold rationality and exists in a spiritual, mystical world which is diificult for many.

How do I describe spending an hour in an Adoration Chapel, and thinking only 15 minutes had passed? Having my heart exposed because the Great Healer was present to conduct the surgery? How can I explain the awe and wonderment in the fact that anyone, even a Priest, can bear to elevate the Host with his hands?

This is gobbledygook to most of the world. I suspect Catholics don't talk about it often. For me it is very personal and intense, private in one way but universal in another. Maybe it is for the Faithful as well.

Today (Saturday) was the feast of St. Iraneus. He was killed for his faith in 202 A.D. I was at Mass with about 80 men and the wives of some of them. I just don't have the words to finish my thought, but I don't want to erase it either. Our Faith is a monument stretching across time, and around the world, but it also sits in my heart.

All I can say is how much I love you, wildtimes, AfterInfinity, and everybody who was drawn to this thread because, somehow, they saw the significance of the conflict between the world where our will is done, and the world where God's will is done.

I will love you forever.

Charles



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



Well, technically nothing is "worthless", but some things are worth more than others.

Your replies are pretty snooty and arrogant 95% of the time. Arrogance isn't a very good quality to have, just so you know.


I give what I get. And I got a lot of it in this thread.
edit on 28-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


You get what you give, actually.

I started the thread out saying what you did for your "friend" was good, then I started seeing through what you were saying and decided that you were lying about your story.

I based my decision on how you were replying to questions, which included deflections, half-truths, and insults in my opinion.



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



I started the thread out saying what you did for your "friend" was good, then I started seeing through what you were saying and decided that you were lying about your story.


You believe I'm lying. You have no actual proof other than the apparent fact that you are unable to comprehend what I have given you.


I based my decision on how you were replying to questions, which included deflections, half-truths, and insults in my opinion.


There we go. It is your opinion that I have lied to you. It doesn't matter either way.



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 




All I can say is how much I love you, wildtimes, AfterInfinity, and everybody who was drawn to this thread because, somehow, they saw the significance of the conflict between the world where our will is done, and the world where God's will is done.


I wish I knew what to say, but it doesn't really matter because I know that I can't say anything that will make a difference. What is done, is done. My efforts have been wasted. There's really no point to any of it anymore. I thought I could do a good thing here, but maybe this was the wrong place and the wrong way.

I'm sorry I failed you guys. I though I could help. Maybe that's my fault for thinking. Maybe it's my fault for believing I had something you might want. But maybe I'm the only one who wants it. Am I a bad person for that? Misguided? Naive? I don't know. I don't think I am. But it doesn't matter. You've all made your opinions clear and there's nothing more I feel I should add. This is the last of it.



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Thanks for the kind words.



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 08:52 AM
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ATTENTION!!!!




You are responsible for your own posts.



This thread will not be derailed by off topic remarks, or personal attacks.
Bickering and name-calling will not be tolerated. Private side conversations belong in Private Messages.

Those who cannot post civilly and on topic may find themselves viewing this thread from the side-lines.

We expect civility and decorum within all topics.
--Off Topic, One Liners and General Back Scratching Posts--



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by DontTreadOnMe
 


Nvm. I'm just gonna let the thread die in peace...hopefully.
edit on 29-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Dont do the guilt trip thing. Perhaps you could have carried and handled yourself better, perhaps not.

You never know what might come of your actions. It is almost never what you think it is going to be, but each one of our little contributions to the world changes it forever.

Hakuna Matata AI, Hakuna Matata.

edit on 29-6-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2013 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 




You never know what might come of your actions. It is almost never what you think it is going to be, but each one of our little contributions to the world changes it forever.


Obviously nothing constructive or productive. My friend is now drinking himself into hysteria, claiming that he lied and he loves Jesus. He's got some problems he needs to deal with, I guess, and atheism just doesn't do it for him in his intoxicated state. Thanks for the support though.
edit on 29-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



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