Putin Highlights Dark Side of America’s History in TV Interview

reply to post by coolcatt


" MOSCOW—President Vladimir Putin said Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, despite being a tyrant, never would have dropped an atomic bomb like the Americans did at the end of World War II.
“We know Stalin now like never before. He was a dictator and a tyrant, but I very much doubt that in the spring of 1945, if he had been in possession of an atomic bomb, he would have used it against Germany,” Mr. Putin said.."

That just goes to show how Nieve and Stupid Putin Really Is if True......

The scenario the U.S was facing regarding the surrender of Japan was either a land invasion or to drop the BIG one. They chose the big one, because 1) It demonstrated to the Russians their power regarding their war machine, 2) It would save the lives of tens, if not, hundreds of thousands of marines 3) They had built it, tested, now to test on a beleaguered nation.

Unfortunately Japan were too proud to surrender, with the main concern being their Emperror. Afterall to them he is a God. The U.S initially wouldn't accept a surrender without the removal of the Emperror. Russia had joined the war on Japan and where making their way through China. They were getting close to launching a land invasion on Japan, so the Japanese decided to negotiate a surrender to Russia, with the main emphaisis on retaing their Emperror.

The Russians already beat the U.S to Berlin. No way were the U.S going to be outshone again.

If the shoe was on the other foot, without a doubt Stalin would have used it. Seriously, without a doubt!!!

reply to post by Pervius


Are you stoned? The Russians didn't fight during the Civil War. What absurd nonsense is this?

Originally posted by Malynn

Originally posted by hellobruce

Typical "blame the USA for everything whilst I rewrite history nonsense"

Typical swallowing the official story without actually doing some research nonsense. What emberscott posted was absolutely correct, and verifiable. And history is written by the winner, in this case the US.

edit on 6/12/13 by Malynn because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/12/13 by Malynn because: (no reason given)

Typical "I automatically disagree with written history and embrace revisionist crap because I think it makes me look smart" nonsense.

reply to post by Antonio1


You beat me to exactly what I wanted to say. Stalin killed millions of his own people! Heck yes he probably would have used the bomb if he had the technology. Lol @ Putin.

Some of you really need to stop applauding such people like Putin just because being Anti American is trendy.

This is an embed of the complete interview with English translation. I found the interview quite refreshing and quite realistic. Putin is not bellicose like many American political figures and doesn't posture wearing "the Emperor's new clothes" as American leaders often do. I think he is being realistic. Hopefully the age of the war of the "wall of sound" (propaganda) between Russia and the West is over.

I'm not saying that one must believe in the accuracy of every assessment he makes, but over all I think he demonstrates a very good grasp of political reality in our world with none of the cognitive dissonance that seems to pour forth from the mouths of American politicians.

He is worth listening to on the subject of Iran and on the subject of what differs Americans and Russians. It is quite striking to hear a Russian President quoting Scarlett O'Hara so aptly and basically saying the Americans are materialists and Russians are spiritual. That's cute.

It is really a pleasure to watch a top politician carry on a dialogue like this at length, handling difficult questions with comparative ease and even having the grace to allow himself to be pushed around a little in a good humored way.

America needs to dismount from its very high horse. Where is the American Putin?

I think Putin thinks that the central problem posed by America is America's self image as "Empire". This self image demands that America comport itself in a way that is coincident with that self image. Whatever America does or says or thinks is done said or thought by "Empire".

America's self image is very grandiose.

Putin and Russia are much more down to earth. They don't have a role to play in the "great American novel of Empire". I think Putin and Russian leaders are amused by American imperial posturing, but are very, very polite and careful about maintaining a solemn composure vis a vis the Americans.

As Johnny Winter said, "Be careful with a fool."

Having said that, I don't think Putin and Russia are quite on the mark when it comes to assessing America. I don't think Americans themselves are comfortable having an Empire. They don't have the understanding of an old culture like that of Russia or England, when it comes to dealing with an Empire.

They are making a mess of it because they don't know how to do Empire. Even worse, they really don't want to do Empire, at least not the American people.

The real essence of the "American problem" in my opinion is not Empire, but the fact that America is still desperately clinging to the corpse of the "Cold War". That was a role that America played with aplomb. Unfortunately that Act in the play of World History is over. America, being young and naïve, believes that Empire is the next Act in the play, but they have been badly misled by History.

The next Act in the play is something totally new, that nobody is prepared for.

That is the real "American problem" facing Putin and facing the world.

Listening to Putin ramble on about America and the status of our nation and freedoms is about as entertaining as hearing reruns of Reagan doing about the same about the Soviet Union....which Putin was a serving intelligence officer of at the time. He was learning to hunt and kill Americans down dark alleys for the KGB clear back in the late 70's. His red roots run exceptionally deep.

It's a nice touch he appears on his own broadcast network too. It must be nice directly owning something like Russia Today the way the Russian Government does. It also makes it about as unreliable as any nation spouting off about another they consider an adversary. Not enemy, perhaps, but absolutely an adversary.

Putin needs to tend to his own house on freedoms, as he's busy supporting laws to restrict and outlaw whole groups of people and various levels of free expression across the whole of the Russian Federation.

He is entertaining though. Always good for laugh or two.

Another interesting feature of the Putin interview is the frequent reference to democracy and the way things should be done in a democracy. The Russians have a new toy to play with and they are having a good time with it. Democracy. They believe that it is the source of all of America's good fortune and the good fortune of England and the other democracies.

They are right and they want to get into this democracy thing and see how it works for them. They are full of "democracy", talking the talk and trying to walk the walk.

America is very familiar with democracy. I think the Russian enthusiasm for it is viewed with amusement by American politicians. The American elite learned a long time ago, how to completely subvert democracy and have been doing it for generations.

What the American elite don't seem to realize is that the Russian enthusiasm for a new toy is actually mirrored by the American public, who never lost their love for democracy and would like their leaders to be a little less sophisticated about democracy and a little more willing to give the old top a spin.

That is what has allowed RT to become such a hit in America. It brings an enthusiasm for having a voice and getting it right, a Hemingway compulsion, to reporting the news. They are not merely a Russian propaganda organ, the "thin edge of the Russian wedge" so to speak. They do criticize Russia and its scandals in an informative way, for a mainstream outlet in a fomerly tightly controlled environment for journalists and are very accommodating to the American point of view, taking great pains to try to get it right and to go after interviews with prominent current or ex American officials.

Russia has serious problems that we are familiar with. Gangsterism is widespread. Peristroika was followed by peristralka, as wits of the Gorbachev era predicted.

"First openess and then the shootout."

There is something hopeful and exciting happening in Russia. We should be happy about that. We should revive our enthusiam for our own democratic traditions and start to solve the world's problems in a new way, peacefully and with good humor.

You know your country is pretty messed up when Russia has more ethical surveillance and intelligence practices than you.

Originally posted by Antonio1
reply to post by Pervius

 

Are you stoned? The Russians didn't fight during the Civil War. What absurd nonsense is this?

Yeah first time I ever heard that. Link please.
Putin is an old KGB guy, he knows how to play the game. The US is back footed at the moment amid all the scandals so he's just getting a dig in.

As for Stalin he would have bombed Germany in a hot second at anytime if he'd of had the bomb. Then he probably have bombed Patton next followed with the UK.

US genocide? Well... if I was a native American I'd have burned and sunk every European ship that showed up off the coast.

The Russian naval fleet had a minor role in the American Civil War.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 1863, during the American Civil War, the Russian Navy's Atlantic and Pacific Fleets wintered in the American ports of New York and San Francisco respectively. Some historians credit this visit as a major factor in deterring France and England from entering the war on the Confederate side.[4] Delahaye states that besides supporting the Union, Russia was also preparing for a war with France and England should they intervene in the Polish insurrection of 1863. The Russian Navy was weak and could easily be blockaded in its home ports, but if it was in the US when the war started it could more easily attack British and French commerce.

As a Canadian I was more shocked recently when I found out that 40,000 (if memory serves) Canadians fought in the American Civil War.

reply to post by Antonio1


I study history. Both sides. And what the Americans are being fed in regard to "dropping the bomb to save so many American serviceman" is a complete load of crap. And it just so happens that the evidence of this does NOT come from the other side. It comes from our side. What emberscott posted on the second page of this thread is just a snippet of the evidence of that load of bollocks.

reply to post by ipsedixit

Thank you, didn't know that or that 40K Canadians fought as well.

I figured it might be interesting to share some of what Vladimir Putin has been up to since retaking power from his temporary stand-in, Medvedev. As others have noted, there is a lot going on in Russia, although exciting isn't how I'd term it for any positive spin. At least, if you appreciate freedom of speech or expression on pretty much any level, there is little positive to be seen. Heck, don't take my word for it though. I do the research so others don't have to.

President Putin’s inauguration, as thousands of Russians protested in Moscow in support of fair elections. The following weeks saw widespread arrests of peaceful protesters across Moscow. A new law was introduced which results in fines rising from 2,000 to 300,000 Roubles (£6,000) for individuals who participate in unsanctioned rallies, and from 5,000 to 1,000,000 Roubles (£20,000) for the organisers.

A law passed in July reinstated libel as a criminal offence, punishable by harsh financial penalties. Human Rights Watch described this move as “regressive and out of step with international human rights law”.

That kinda hurts...

A new law on NGOs entered into force in November. This requires an NGO in receipt of foreign funding and engaged in (vaguely defined) “political activities” to register with the Ministry of Justice and identify itself publicly as a “foreign agent”. The move has been severely criticised by human rights organisations. Amnesty

International expressed concern that the law would “stifle civil society development in Russia and is likely to be used to silence critical voices”. We made clear that labelling NGOs with a term that generates mistrust could only have a negative impact on the freedom of civil society.

(Source: Human Rights Watch)

That's just a small segment of that report. It runs for a great deal more.

“This is a crucial time for Secretary General Jagland to stand up for Council of Europe standards in Russia,” said Hugh Williamson, Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “The Russian government’s crackdown on civil society is unprecedented, and has created a profoundly hostile climate for human rights work.”

(Source: Human Rights Watch)

Hmmm... This next one suggests that perhaps they do understand the worst of democracy, quite well. It's unfortunate for the Russian people...but then, they are a stoic bunch and used to tyrants in power. They had over a half century of it, after all. Whats another one?

"In the year since Vladimir Putin's return to the presidency in May 2012, the Russian government has unleashed a crackdown on civil society unprecedented in the country's post-Soviet history," Human Rights Watch said in its report.
"The authorities have introduced a series of restrictive laws, harassed, intimidated, and in several cases imprisoned political activists, interfered in the work of nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) and sought to cast government critics as clandestine enemies, thereby threatening the viability of Russia's civil society."

(Source: CNN World Report)

Hmmm... Anyone starting to see a pattern here?

The systematic undermining and violation of the rights to freedom of expression, assembly and association have been the hallmark of Vladimir Putin’s human rights record during the first year of his third mandate as Russian president, Amnesty International said in a report published today.

(Source: Amnesty International)

I do believe freedom is getting a little cold over there.

A 'dark day' for freedom of expression in Russia

EU concerned over Russia human rights record

I believe Putin is living in a very big glass house of his own making ..and now throwing bricks at others. Not nice...and not at all wise. It's amusing for now because the press kinda finds him entertaining to cover. When the amusement fades, so will his favorable coverage, I'm thinking.

In the meantime, my hopes are with the citizens there. They're in for a bad time of it, judging by the reports and investigations highlighted above.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Your posts in this thread are insightful and incredibly educated. I love it.

reply to post by Bassago

You might be interested in this article from The Toronto Star. Someone has written a new book about Canadians in the American Civil War.

I've gotta get the book. This was a total shock to me.

www.thestar.com...

“Many people don’t believe that Canada had any role in the Civil War,” Boyko says. In fact, 40,000 Canadians fought in it (at a ratio of roughly 50 in northern regiments for every one in a Confederate regiment). Twenty-nine Canadians won the Congressional Medal of Honor in the Civil War. Canadian Civil War vets are buried in Arlington National Cemetery. “Standing in the honour guard with Ulysses S. Grant when Robert E. Lee surrendered was a Canadian,” says Boyko.

The Russians never were interested in using nukes for the simple reason that their brand of Communism required massive influxes of goods (crops, people, minerals, etc) from conquered peoples to keep their centralized and "egalitarian" empire going-which is kind of hard to do when you've irradiated the place. Nukes were used as bargaining chips, to threaten, to bring about negotiations, things like that.

Say what you will about Putin's dictatorial bent (and, as Americans, we pretty much can't now,) but in a few short years he wrestled control of his country away from the banks and the oil companies. At one point in the early 2000's half the wealth of the country was owned by just 12 people.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Hmmm... Anyone starting to see a pattern here?

The pattern I see in a lot of this is American meddling in Russia, sowing the seeds of discontent. Trying to push the new kid off his "training wheels" democracy bicycle.

America's track record, worldwide, in this sort of thing is beyond deplorable.

Russia is right to guard against "NGOs", many of which are intelligence agency fronts. Russia is wrong to stifle journalists and how they handle demonstrators is really up to them. America certainly doesn't seek UN guidance or ask anyone what to do about dissent in America.

NGOs and pressure groups and corporate lobbyists are what is killing democracy in America. I'm sure these things exist in Russia but Russia is trying to draw the line on foreign interference in their country. They are one of the few countries in the world with the muscle needed to do so.

I think the real question is would Hitler or the Japanese had dropped it.I would bet they would have as far as Putin's revisionist rehab attempt of history's 2nd leading mass murderer...major fail.