The Zimmerman Trial

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by MrWendal

 

She didn't say that. She said he was right beside his house. I said he died 10 to 30 seconds from his house (depending on if he ran there or walked there).

Well no. That's not what you said. You portrayed that time frame as fact. Here are your exact words.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

BASED ON THE FACT THAT HIS FRIEND ON THE PHONE SAID HE DID.
She said he was by his house and then they talked for several more minutes. He was about 10 - 30 seconds from his home. He waited and confronted. He could have been home he had plenty of time to get in, he chose NOT TO.

So allow me to take this statement apart.

She said he was by his house and then they talked for several more minutes.

She said he was by his house. How far from his house? She does not say. "Not far" can be 100 yards or 5 more minutes. I am also not sure she said she talked for "several more minutes". That portion I would have to go back and listen again to her testimony.

He waited and confronted

No, she didnt say that either. This is your perception of what she said. Not her words.

He could have been home he had plenty of time to get in, he chose NOT TO.

And she did not say this either. This is again your perception and what you got from her testimony. Not what she actually said.

Not to cloud the issue further, but under what obligation is Trayvon Martin under to return home and run from a man who is following him? Again, he was not committing a crime by being there. He was supposed to be there. If you are walking down a street and I am following you, are you under some obligation to run from me? Or are you well within your rights to stop and ask me why I am following you?

Of course she didn't say it. She didn't say much more than yes sir, no sir.

According to your recollection of events she said much more than "yes sir" and "no sir".

She said he was right beside his house, where he hung out for several minutes before confronting Zimmerman. He died about a football field or less from his house. He was a football player with no injuries it's safe to presume he could have been there in about 10 seconds running or 30 seconds walking/jogging. But even if you disagree with THAT you cannot disagree that he could have been home within the few minutes he decided to stay "beside his house" rather than going inside.

edit on 28-6-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Again- why was he required to go inside? Does he not have every right to stand beside his house?

I also hope you realize that in your attempt to justify the actions of Zimmerman, you are actually debunking Zimmerman's own version of events.

According to the defense, Zimmerman began walking back to his vehicle after being told by the 911 operator to not follow. If Trayvon is running towards his home, and Zimmerman is not following him and walks back to his vehicle, then how did they ever cross paths as the vehicle is parked in the opposite direction of Trayvon's home and Trayvon is standing beside his home? How does that happen exactly?

dp

reply to post by MrWendal


NO. You are twisting the reality. She told him to run. He ran then when she called back he said he was by his house. So when he ran we know that he was already VERY close to his house. We know where he was. You are playing dumb like the information of where he was isn't available. Hell he could have run from the gas station to his house in the time he waited "beside his house" for Zimmerman.

He ran, then when she called back he was beside his house. He didn't run anymore while she was on the phone he just hung out and waited on Zimmerman. I don't think he was ever a 5 minute run from his house that entire night.

When he started running he was already right by his house by most peoples standards. So when he told her (after running) that he was beside his house, common sense tells you he was literally RIGHT BY his house.
Then he waited there.

You need to study the case more. He was never far from his house the entire house. So after he ran he was right by his house where he waited.

He was not required to go in his house, nor did I say he was. However the prosecutions story is that he was scared of this guy that hunted him down. So if we are to believe that story is true and convict Zimmerman than it does NOT make sense that he waited for Zimmerman outside his house after he made it there.

You are not understanding. If you don't know how their paths crossed then you don't understand anything about the case. Martin went through a different route or was way ahead then ducked down the walkway between the buildings. Later Zimmerman walked down the path but went past the walkway Martin ducked down to his house (or he may have cut through yards either way he ended up at his house and went back up towards the T). So at that point Zimmerman starts going back the way he came crossing in front of the area that leads to Martin's house a second time (on the way back). Martin who was down there waiting (rather than going inside) walked back towards the T and confronted Zimmerman. That is how they crossed path's again after Zimmerman was going back. Martin waited and approached.

reply to post by MrWendal


Here is a Mother'a perspective:

Not that it matters but I am just thinking about the makeup of the female jury.

I have a younger child that was in special ed for a minute. He was diagnosed with Auditory Processing Disorder in the first grade. So I have some experience with learning disorders. I am aware of the difficulties he faced.

I volunteered to read to grade school children in my son's elementary school

I was the President of the PTA for my youngest child's elementary school

I cant remember what the name of it was but I ran the whole reward program for reading honors for his entire elementary school. I made all the special lanyards and buttons, and awards for the children that reached their goals. I especially gave extra attention to the special ed kids. Just cuz.

You are not going to gain any points in front of a mother for insulting a less than intelligent young lady. He is a man. He doesn't get it. Mother's are very protective. They will kick your rear end over a kid they don't even know.

reply to post by GrantedBail


You were over an entire program and made lanyards and buttons and don't remember the name? Just sayin'.

Mothers can also imagine what it would be like if their son was jumped by a thug in a dark area and then shot the attacker to preserve his life. They will relate to the mother whose son could go to jail because he defended his life and a girl lied.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
.Stalking is when you follow the same person on multiple occasions. Stalking is following, following is not always stalking. Following someone is NOT a crime. That has been stated by multiple experts over the past year.

Agreed, following is not always stalking. I also agree that following is not a crime, but who is charging Zimmerman with the crime of "following"? He is charged with Murder. He killed an unarmed person, whom he was following, that was not committing a crime at the time that he was following.

LOL he wasn't in hot pursuit was my point. I'll do the same to you. You said how peeled could his eyes be if he lost Zimmerman. I will say how much could he be following him to lose him?

As an answer to this question, I propose my own question. If Trayvon is standing next to his home, and Zimmerman's vehicle is parked in the opposite direction, how did he come face to face with Trayvon Martin?

Answer: He followed him or he continued to walk in the direction he last saw Trayvon going.

His eyes were peeled trying to see if he could SEE Martin again. He was no longer following but on his way back to his truck when Martin confronted and jumped him.

Now you are contradicting yourself. Either Martin ran to his home and stayed outside next to his home or he ran back around and got between Zimmerman and his vehicle. Which is it? Cause the fact is for Zimmerman to get to his truck, he would have had to go back the way he came. For Zimmerman and Martin to come face to face at this point means Martin had to double back around or Zimmerman continued to walk away from his truck. If Martin ran back- then he is not by his house.

Just because you didn't hear her say it doesn't mean she didn't. Watch the last of her testimony with the Defense. She said he ran, the were disconnected, she called back 20 seconds later and he was by his house, they talked for several more minutes (where he didn't go inside the house ever) and then he saw and confronted Zimmerman.

Now think carefully about what you have posted here. You are using the words of this "discredited" witness to prove your point, but let us look at her words and match it up with what he know as fact. Then tell me again how she refuted the prosecutions case.

Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman. They disconnected and she calls back. Trayvon is now near his home. This tells us that Trayvon ran in the direction of his home. We also know that Zimmerman's vehicle is parked in the opposite direction of Trayvons home and that for Trayvon to confront Zimmerman, Zimmerman would have had to NOT be going back to his truck. That is the only way according to her testimony that Trayvon would have "seen and confronted Zimmerman". Which does not refute the State';s case, it refutes the defense claim that Zimmerman was walking back to his truck and was jumped by Martin.

That was her testimony. If you can't understand what that means then I can't help you.

I understand her testimony very well. I am sorry that you can not see how her words poke holes in Zimmerman's story.

The argument about him being a football player and how long it would take to get to his house is not a silly argument. It is important. He was hanging around outside his house for several minutes. If he was afraid of the guy following him he would have gone inside to safety. Instead he stayed outside for several minutes (several minutes every second of which he could have been going in his house) and then confronted Zimmerman when he came back in. It's very important information.

edit on 28-6-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Actually I think we are arguing a pointless point. We do not know just how far Trayvon was from his home. I find it odd that you claim he was seconds away, but yet his parents had no idea he was shot and laying in the street "right next to their home"? Do you forget that Tracy Martin, Treyvon's father, reported him missing to police 13 hours AFTER the shooting?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

You are so argumentative?? Who really cares what the name was?? My volunteer position was to create physical emblems to recognize their individual efforts. Which, by the way, I spent my own money on. I bought all the lanyards, and the little pins that the kids could attach to their lanyards... Whatever. It was a school that had mexican immigrants as well . So our purpose was to encourage reading and the kids responded because they wanted to get their lanyard and all the extra pins and stars that we provided once they had attained a certain reading goal.

reply to post by MrWendal


Wrong. He committed the crime of assault. The first one to commit a crime that night was Martin and so Zimmerman killed him in self defense.

You are wrong about why they came face to face again. You can't seem to grasp the concept that Zimmerman overshot Martin's location. Zimmerman went PAST where Martin was so when he quit looking for him and turned around Martin was able to get between Zimmerman and his truck.

Imagine a hallway with another hall that branches in the middle to the right. Martin runs down the hallway and then instead of going all the way down he turns right and goes halfway down the hallway that branches off. Zimmerman coming behind (much slower and with a late start so he doesn't see where Martin goes) goes down the hall on the phone with 911, but he goes all the way to the end. At the end he hangs up and starts going back the way he came down the hallway. At this point Martin has been by his house for several minutes waiting, he may have even saw Zimmerman pass by once already. He sees Zimmerman crossing in front of him down the hall basically crossing the area where the hallway branches off and so Martin goes up (coming from behind and left) and yells at Zimmerman and then strikes him.

That is how it happened. Even if Martin took a cut through rather than the "hallways" he was in the same position.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by MrWendal

 

NO. You are twisting the reality. She told him to run. He ran then when she called back he said he was by his house. So when he ran we know that he was already VERY close to his house. We know where he was. You are playing dumb like the information of where he was isn't available. Hell he could have run from the gas station to his house in the time he waited "beside his house" for Zimmerman.

He ran, then when she called back he was beside his house. He didn't run anymore while she was on the phone he just hung out and waited on Zimmerman. I don't think he was ever a 5 minute run from his house that entire night.

Someone here is twisting reality, but it is not me.

Let me make this very very simple......

If Zimmerman is walking back to his vehicle which is parked AWAY from Trayvon's house, and Trayvon is standing by his house waiting on Zimmerman, then how did they come face to face?

The reality here is, for what you are saying to be the truth Zimmerman could not have been walking back to his truck as he claims. For what you say to be true and back up Zimmerman's story, Trayvon would have had to be hiding by his own home, laying in wait to jump Zimmerman. Which if he was, Zimmerman would never have walked by that home if he was walking back to his truck OR Trayvon had to run back to a point where he was between Zimmerman and his truck. If Trayvon did run back around- then he was not by his home anymore. In any event, you obviously have missed the significance of her testimony.

When he started running he was already right by his house by most peoples standards. So when he told her (after running) that he was beside his house, common sense tells you he was literally RIGHT BY his house.
Then he waited there.

Ok great... he waited there. So again, if Zimmerman is walking back to his truck which is parked in the opposite direction of Martin's home- how did they come face to face?

You need to study the case more. He was never far from his house the entire house. So after he ran he was right by his house where he waited.

yeah that's it. I need to study the case more.

He was not required to go in his house, nor did I say he was. However the prosecutions story is that he was scared of this guy that hunted him down. So if we are to believe that story is true and convict Zimmerman than it does NOT make sense that he waited for Zimmerman outside his house after he made it there.

Maybe you should watch the opening statements again. This is not the prosecutions case. Not even close.

You are not understanding. If you don't know how their paths crossed then you don't understand anything about the case. Martin went through a different route or was way ahead then ducked down the walkway between the buildings. Later Zimmerman walked down the path but went past the walkway Martin ducked down to his house (or he may have cut through yards either way he ended up at his house and went back up towards the T). So at that point Zimmerman starts going back the way he came crossing in front of the area that leads to Martin's house a second time (on the way back). Martin who was down there waiting (rather than going inside) walked back towards the T and confronted Zimmerman. That is how they crossed path's again after Zimmerman was going back. Martin waited and approached.

edit on 28-6-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

I suggest looking carefully at the map of the area and see for yourself why your story is just nonsense.

Click here for more information.

The "killed him in self-defense" argument is hilarious. It's about as hilarious, as the people here who speak, like they were at the crime scene.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by MrWendal

 

Wrong. He committed the crime of assault. The first one to commit a crime that night was Martin and so Zimmerman killed him in self defense.

How can you be so sure that Martin was the first to commit assault? If I grab your arm or touch you in any way, I am guilty of assault. How can you be so sure that Zimmerman did not grab the boy by his arm when he finally found him? Fact is you are making an assumption. You are assuming that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman and trhere is no evidence to suggest that he did. Injuries to Zimmerman prove there was a fight, it does not prove who started the fight. It does not prove who touched who first.

If you have evidence that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman completely unprovoked, please share it with us all and end this debate now. Show me anything. Witness testimony, video, picture, anything at all. All you have to back that claim up is Zimmerman's claims which no one can refute cause dead guys tell no tales.... but the evidence does and this far the evidence is not proving Zimmerman to be 100% correct.

You are wrong about why they came face to face again. You can't seem to grasp the concept that Zimmerman overshot Martin's location. Zimmerman went PAST where Martin was so when he quit looking for him and turned around Martin was able to get between Zimmerman and his truck.

edit on 28-6-2013 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Look at this map again.



According to you, Trayvon ran from Zimmerman and was "right by his house" where he could have simply went inside and gotten away from Zimmerman. This map disproves your claim. As I said, "right by his house" is not a very good system of measurement.

However, it brings the question, how did Zimmerman get to this point when he was supposedly walking back to his truck at the time prior to his 911 call ending?

reply to post by MrWendal


Here is something to consider. Think about the elapsed time between the phone calls. When TM had plenty of time to get home and when George lost sight of him while on 911 non-emergency.

Where was TM that was plenty of time to go home or call 911 why did he either come back or lay in wait?

Everything so far has pretty much backed up Zims account of things.

I've been watching the replays on "Dr. Drew" (also because I like Jenny Hutt) It seems hard to figure out what's what as of yet. So, as I watch I just think...

Click here for more information.

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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

ATTENTION!!!!

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This thread will not be derailed by off topic remarks or images.
Bickering and name-calling will not be tolerated. Private side conversations belong in Private Messages.

Those who cannot post civilly and on topic may find themselves viewing this thread from the side-lines.

We expect civility and decorum within all topics.
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edit on Fri Jun 28 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)

Sorry mod. I let him push my button.

Won't happen again.