World War III

India/Pakistan match-up contd..
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Tanks - India has more and better tanks, but I am not sure it matters in today's battlefield.
Artillery - India has adequate number of artillery pieces to be able to be effective on the battlefield. The artillery includes large calibre guns, MLRS, tactical ballistic and cruise missiles etc.
Expeditionary capability - India has better "strike" forces than Pakistan, that can make a thrust into enemy territory. Again not sure if it would matter, as the conflict will go nuclear before Pakistan loses a lot of territory.
Infantry Equipment - is remarkably similar on both sides.

Again a study of 1965 and 1971 wars reveals that Pakistan was steadfast in Kashmir but it lost territory further south. This is due to Pakistan's concentration of troops in a small part in the north of the country, which is the center of its political power. This goes on to the present.

India has countered by increasing troops in the Kashmir region by matching Pakistan's. So Pakistan may not have a numerical advantage anymore.

Navy
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India maintains a much larger naval force compared to Pakistan.
Pakistan's coastline is much smaller compared to India. The same is true of international trade where Pakistan's trade volume is a fraction of India's.

If there is any component of Pakistan's force that is at serious disadvantage - it is the navy.

lets leave India/ Pakistan out of it .....

reply to post by maddy21


There is a lot of interest and speculation about a possible India/Pakistan conflict.

It is appropriate to present a correct picture in light of increasing incidents on the border.

You can correct me if I wrote anything incorrect or inappropriate.

reply to post by GargIndia


I think Pakistan and India is a microcosm of what WW3 may hold. Pakistan is a 'Muslim' nation in conflict with a 'secular' nation like India, I think both countries situation are nothing unique and will play out all over the world by militant sharia law. WW3 is just sharia law and globalization interest colliding to a nuclear stand off starting in the middle east, going from north Africa towards South East Asia.

China's globalization scheme> [link]http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread966593/pg1[/link]

Earlier in a another thread I posted in, some Chinese corporation sent convicts to do public works in some African country, and mistreated locals. The locals had to 'rebel up' to get there rights back. China own lots of resources and assets in Africa. If Africa gets completely over run by Muslim rebels, sharia law could be the could be the spark that sets the world on fire.

Radical Islam not cooperating in the global market is suspect. China gabbling resources in Muslin nations is suspect.

Radical Muslims are going to pull the rug out from the global market, and start WW3.

I think the human population will downsize through genetic drift, brought on by a virus that will take too long to defeat, or the virus itself, there are some people who believe our virus' come from outer space, perhaps, perhaps not, anyway, the damn thing come from somewhere, transgenic mutations are another possibility, either way, not with a bang, but a whimper.

Originally posted by GargIndia
There is a lot of interest and speculation about a possible India/Pakistan conflict.

The State of Pakistan is largely dysfunctional and would be unable to prosecute a war with anyone, let alone India.

There is a difference between a border skirmish and an all out shooting war and the last time anything worrying happened was in 1999 and that tiff was quite limited.

The only people interested in an Indo-Pakistani conflict are those who like arm chairs and those who like to stir up trouble, like Lashkar-e-Taiba and their ilk.

Regards

Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by GargIndia
There is a lot of interest and speculation about a possible India/Pakistan conflict.

The State of Pakistan is largely dysfunctional and would be unable to prosecute a war with anyone, let alone India.

There is a difference between a border skirmish and an all out shooting war and the last time anything worrying happened was in 1999 and that tiff was quite limited.

The only people interested in an Indo-Pakistani conflict are those who like arm chairs and those who like to stir up trouble, like Lashkar-e-Taiba and their ilk.

Regards

Pakistan is being used by both Saudi and China. So a war is very much possible.
It is not a fantasy of arm-chair generals.

India will be foolish not to see the reality.
A dysfunctional Pakistan is even more dangerous that a functional Pakistan, as it is more prone to play as a proxy.

reply to post by upton33


You have a point. The big picture looks like this:

Actor 1: Globalists - Want to corporatise the whole world and mix all populations. Plan to weaken organized religions. This empire is led by USA.

Actor 2: Religion based empires - (a) Roman Catholic (b) Sunni (Wahabi) (c) Shia (d) Orthodox christians

Actor 3: Ethnicity based empires (a) China (b) Japan

The conflicts in the world are coming primarily from jostling for power between the above actors. These conflicts are both intra-national and inter-national at this time. A global conflict can arise from a combination of several inter-national conflicts.

To be honest i believe its Agenda 21 at work here ...every one is in collusion

UFO in Syria war zone targeting people, FSA says
www.youtube.com...

Published on Aug 27, 2013
8/28/2013 A major leak has come to light, as two images of what appear to be large black UFOs, patrol the skies inside the Syrian war zone. FSA rebel commanders on the ground in Damascus have confirmed that these large black craft are "hunting down and systematically targeting" innocent locals, using unknown weaponized technology "not of this earth" or anything the fighters have ever seen. Sources describe the craft as silent, but that they do give off an odd sounding hum intermittently. Sources of this event are being silenced at all costs by governments of the world, that much we know so far. We will publish updates as we get them. You decide, and check back for developments on this major story.

I think something big is coming if we have such strange objects shown online, no saucers, triangles or tubes, let alone the well known aircraft. I know such kind of ships only from the Sci Fi movies.

Originally posted by 2012newstart
UFO in Syria war zone targeting people, FSA says
www.youtube.com...

Published on Aug 27, 2013
8/28/2013 A major leak has come to light, as two images of what appear to be large black UFOs, patrol the skies inside the Syrian war zone. FSA rebel commanders on the ground in Damascus have confirmed that these large black craft are "hunting down and systematically targeting" innocent locals, using unknown weaponized technology "not of this earth" or anything the fighters have ever seen. Sources describe the craft as silent, but that they do give off an odd sounding hum intermittently. Sources of this event are being silenced at all costs by governments of the world, that much we know so far. We will publish updates as we get them. You decide, and check back for developments on this major story.

First object is CGI (computer graphics).
Second object is a helicopter.
Third object is a fixed wing plane with its lights on.

Why did a submarine explode in India?

reply to post by cavtrooper7


Most likely ammunition accident. (torpedo explosion)

Soviet/Russian equipment has always suffered from quality problems. Today's Russian stuff is better than Soviet but consistency is still an issue.

The accident rate of Soviet/Russian equipment is higher.

Pakistan - Hope of Islam or A Failed Experiment
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Pakistan had a much greater chances of success at birth, in the eyes of the British empire that created it, compared to "Hindoo" India. The British despised "Hindoos" who were seen by them as divided and weak. India was expected to break up in smaller entities under the weight of it's own contradictions.

However things did not play out as expected. Despite all odds, India endured while Pakistan broke up in two pieces. The subsequent State yielded to a hateful and regressive political ideology that consumed its masses and greatly reduced its economic potential. As the State focused its resources on a military buildup, the economic engine suffered and the income and social condition of people stagnated.

Several thinkers from Pakistan have questioned the basis itself on which Pakistan was formed. This basis is thought to be the root of Pakistan's problems. This State was an "Islamic Utopia" or dream of a few people. The election that was the basis of division of India on religious lines was a rigged elections in which only 5% of the eligible populace participated. The Hindoo leaders accepted the partition largely due to restive tribes in the NorthWest and other frontier areas that were difficult to control even for the British. The Muslim leaders were the landed classes who saw this as an opportunity to amass wealth and power.

As feudal lords were the reason of creation of Pakistan, this class has largely retained power over the State through all means. This means constant violence to sustain the privileges of a few against the welfare of the larger population.

There is massive discontent in Pakistan, a fact that is constantly ignored by Western writers. The discontent is brutally suppressed by the military and secret police by extra-judicial killings. As things went more out of hand, the State resorted to creation of militias like "Sipahe Sahiba" and many other such outfits to engage in war against its minorities and against India. It's desire to become a "leader of the Islamic world" is reflected in State's support of trans-national terrorism outfits like Al Qaida. Such support is institutionalized in Pakistan's government.

Pakistan is a State constantly at war - within its borders and outside its borders. The question is - can a State continue in such a state indefinitely?

Kashmir dispute
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A solution to Kashmir does nothing to solve Pakistan's fundamental problems.

The Muslim majority Kashmir valley is a very small area geographically, and is very insignificant in terms of economic potential.

Kashmir is a burden on India. India retains it due to strategic reasons, as north of Kashmir forms a natural boundary with China, Pakistan and other central Asian States.

India has also realized with time that the partition of India did not solve the region's problems. It only created new problems.

So it is unlikely that India will yield anymore to the illogic of partition of India in settling the Kashmir issue.

India and Pakistan's Industrial Military Capability
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There is constant bad press about India's equipment. People however do not realize that a good part of the "news" is intentional in support of "import lobby" that has worked consistently to restrain India from developing domestic armament industry. The import lobby benefits greatly from imports. Some estimates are that at least 10% of import price is paid as bribes to India's politicians and military top brass.

If going was good, as it was in 70s and 80s, all equipment in India would have been imported.

But circumstances changed. USSR fell. The West denied key technologies to India. And politicians were left with little choice.

This is a fact that only last two decades saw seriousness in developing a domestic armament industry. India was doing only assembly and maintenance before that, by and large.

India has made significant progress in developing a domestic industry given the challenges, the biggest of it, an end-user (army) unwilling to participate in domestic armament building projects.

Pakistan's strategy has been to rely on alliances for obtaining key armaments. Pakistan formed an alliance with USA early in its independent life; and then allied with China when its alliance with USA ran into difficulties. Most of Pakistan's equipment has been obtained from either USA or China. Some of it has been obtained from other sources such as France. Of late, Pakistan has obtained artillery from Turkey in a sign of greater cooperation with other Muslim nations. Pakistan has made little progress in the establishment of its domestic armament industry. This is very evident from arms captured from "terrorists" in Kashmir where even hand grenades are Chinese-made.

While a lack of military industrial capability in Pakistan does not necessarily make it a weak country, it does restrict its capability to wage intensive war for a long period.

Pakistan's military - the magic of numbers
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When you see orbat of Pakistan on the Net (wiki), it lists all the equipment ever bought by independent State of Pakistan, as if it never retired or lost any equipment.

The numbers in Pakistani orbat always add up. It suffers no attrition whatsoever.

It is reverse in India where 'war wastage reserves' and 'retired equipment' are not counted in official orbat.

My view is that Pakistan's serviceable equipment is much lower than numbers available on the Internet. India's figures are generally lower than what is available.

The changing face of battlefield (Pakistan's miscalculations)
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Pakistan sees parity with India in numbers in terms of tanks, artillery, APCs etc.

In fact Pakistan's raw numbers in the field of artillery are greater than India's.

However the face of battlefield has changed. Two things that may determine the outcome of next conflict are - air power and air defence, more than anything else that Pakistan and India have in inventory.

Mr. Grag India

Please leave the Indo Pak matter in this thread ..It's not going to led the WW3

This thread is just a Update of WW3 ..not a discussion Thread

Regards

Sajeev