World War III

reply to post by SajeevJino


India has had gravity nuke bombs since eighties. The first earmarked platforms were Jaguar and Mirage-2000.
The current platforms would include Su-30.

India does have standoff weapons (cruise missile of short range) that can be fired from Mig-29 and Su-30. This is of Russian origin. The warhead can be changed from conventional to nuclear in such weapons.

Agni-I is not yet deployed in the north. Both Agni regiments are still in south. It could be that Army/AF is not fully comfortable with the weapons so it is deployed close to the labs that made them.

reply to post by GargIndia


I agree with you. AT the same time, Syria got Yakhonts and Iskanders, that could hit US ships and even Israel.

The question of WW3 should have been decided long ago. Let say even before 9/11. It transpired in 2008 war in Georgia how far Russia is willing to go - to send bombers and ships to the Caribbean as responce of US missile warships in Black Sea. One does not decide for the Last nuclear war in our times from Friday till Tuesday morning. It needs planning and preparations. They should be disguised because they cannot be hidden (too big). Russia doesn't stop drills incl of balistic missiles. For the last decade it developed 3 new kinds of subs and 3-4 new ballistic missiles. Every next one is announced only after initial successful launch. It means Russia works on new weapons as we speak and we don't know what kind are they. How many launches did USA do for all those years? 1 a year or so, of the obsolete Minuteman missiles. Perhaps USA keeps its best secrets - secret. As space weapons, as the latest Delta launch. How about Russian space weapons that are secret? Russian space laser was operational already in 1988 - Polyus. it failed, it doesn't mean there aren't others unknown.

I don't see USA as the country that attacks Russia and China first. But that theoretical possibility cannot be ruled out technically. If we rule it out for moral, cultural and other reasons, then it remains that Russia, much less China, India only local, will be those who will start WW3. Or should Israel blackmail the world? It has missile to reach Washington, Moscow and Tokyo. Why should WW3 be started at all?

That is a deep rooted issue and one should go back to WW2 and even to the start of the century. WHo are the world powers, what is their difference, and who wants to rule the planet (or beyond). How could Germany in post WW1 as a LOSER develop its tech for some 20 years to become power N1 at the start of WW2? Who helped them, because it is impossible for a normal development of entire humanity, let alone of one country that just lost the first world war and all its colonies and was hit by hyperinflation.

I don't say I know these answers. What is obvious is the Russian perestroika of Gorbachev ended with Yeltsin's vodka. Putin leads a course of development of highly offensive weapons that have only one purpose - total disabling nuclear strike. They are not defensive weapons, although one may say they are nuclear deterrent. With the advanced US nano tech the Russian probability to strike only increases. Because the nanotech will overwhelm at one moment the obsolete missiles. Not if they explode in nuclear chain reaction. I don't know if nanotech can withstand that, but we the humans can't. The question at the end is/should be of human dimension. Who needs WW3 and for what purpose? I've heard a lot of talks of NWO, but let remember McNamara, Paul Craig Roberts and others who see the great risk for the human survival. If you call NWO the post-nuclear world, that is something completely different from the highly technological society today that is offered as a model of the future together with unseen unemployment in the developed world and disasters in the 3rd world. That model cannot survive. And we see it already fails in EU. Is it meant therefore a nuclear war to start it all over? I don't know, hope not. Other factors come into play, such as increased solar radiation, and the presence of someone from above.

reply to post by 2012newstart


"Syria got Yakhonts and Iskanders"

It takes much more than that to bring down US ships. You need position of a ship in real time, that means access to satellites that can scan the area; GPS guidance to take the missile into the area of the ship; and terminal guidance that is coming from a shore/ship based installation (survivability of that installation).

You may have a missile with 300 km range but you may be able to use it to 50-60km because of limitations of your sensors.

A Yakhont in India's hands is very different from a Yakhont in Syria's hands. Why? Because India has its own satellites, maritime reconnaissance platforms, and high power radars on fixed as well mobile locations.

the line of reasoning above leads to the easy but non-standard conclusion that there are at least 3 megapowers on the world's stage. It was evident in the time before WW2 - Western democracies, Nazi regimes, and the Soviet Union. By chance of history, Soviet Union became ally of the Western democracies. The story could be different if the pact Molotov -Ribentrop was honored and if USSR and Germany were allies.

The rapid technical advance of post-WW1 Germany clearly indicates of the presence of someone in the shadow. Someone that doesn't care of morale in politics too. The post-WW2 mission of admiral Byrd to Antarctica "High Jump" shows that someone was not defeated rather retained unmatched capabilities at that time (flying saucers). Does that undeclared superpower just disappear from planet Earth in post-WW2 era? I doubt it.

Today we see a number of smaller countries that attain capabilities possessed ony by USSR and USA in the middle of 20th century. We see Japan, China, India, South Korea with their satellites and rockets. But we see also Iran and North Korea with theirs! Is it all due to normal progress, or is it some of the technical advance a result of undeclared collaboration with yet unknown power behind scene? Or are they more than one?

Here comes the Kremlin pyramid and the question how that could be possible in a controlled country. Everyone who looks for such kind of info knows of the US achievements in that field too. Triangles are not UFOs they are flying craft seen by thousands of people who have no interest to lie. Chinese pyramids over airports and milion-wide cities, later posted to the state controlled version of youtube. All that cannot go unnoticed for the people online who care. There are powers above, there are unknown capabilities of each of the earth superpowers. And we don't know much of that. We know they exist because they have chosen to reveal a bit of the truth.

So when we talk about whether or not Russia will attack USA, we should have all that in mind. Perhaps Russia and USA are on the same side at the end of the day. Who rules the divided Muslim world? I have no answer. The answer will be manifested, as the answer of Ribentrop-Molotov division of the world came ain the form of a sneak attack of Nazi Germany on USSR. Will the history repeat itself, although in a different configuration. Rome is another question, to what extend the religious leaders know and are in contacts with a superior force( which one) and to what extension they exert political functions as well. If the worst case scenario develops, that f a nuclear winter, the surviving earth population in underground cities, both in USA and Russia, probably China, Brazil, India, will have a totaly different political and religious priorities than today's. Perhaps the fight for control of the remnants of population underground has already begun. I will stop here although one could easily build up scenarios out of that that go out of that frame. Especially with technology known from the so called Sci-Fi. But let keep the topic focused on WW3.

reply to post by 2012newstart


"I don't see USA as the country that attacks Russia and China first"

I do not think so. USA is very aggressive country (I would say hyper-aggressive). USA is the leader of the arms race. Others are forced to imitate the US.

Every country is offered only two options - either to fall in line, or to fight. The second option means developing weapons similar to what US has. This is driving Russia and China. India responds due to fear of China. Pakistan responds due to fear of India. And it goes on.

reply to post by 2012newstart


There is no external or alien power.
The power most likely is NWO which is a kind of cult of some of the richest and most powerful people.
The NWO is a compelling political philosophy, probably created by some very smart people.

We cannot draw conclusions from flying saucers or flying triangles. Some of it is mass hysteria caused by watching sci-fi movies. Rest of it is crafts made on this earth secretly by governments.

I have watched so many videos posted on the Internet over the years, and there are only two that I find convincing.

I think the issue is different. We no longer have Nazis vs West. Nazis are absorbed by the West. We no longer have communism vs capitalism. The capitalists has adopted some socialist ideas, and Communists have adopted some capitalist ideas, and both have become diluted.

However we do have a civilizational divide between East and West. This divide has not bridged despite the technological advances.

reply to post by GargIndia

How do you know? There are flying objects that are not planes and that s a matter of fact proven by neutral observers, thousands of them, who are not senile. Those objects are filmed as well, sometimes in hundreds (see about Mexico). For the purpose of this thread, it is easier to cal them "secret military objects" "made in USA", "made in USSR", or "made in secret Nazi base somewhere in antarctica". Thus we avoid mentioning of ET races on earth, and still we could explain the above phenomena.

Otherwise someone has to explain how the old planes of WW1 evolved to von Brown rockets for less than 20 years and shortly after reached to the moon. Because it is impossible in the way the earth civilization developed for millenia. This is just one example out of many. You may look at telecommunications, at electronics, microchip. Everything changed in several decades. Such kind of technological jumps do not happen in human history - not in the recorded history. Indeed we have the pyramids and we still don't know why they are built or by whom. We have the Indian Vimanas that pose no less puzzle to decipher.

We have to admit a superior secret power(s). If we want to avoid calling them ET, we may call them secret societies, hidden masters, underground civilization, or Annunaki if you will. Those who built up the pyramids. I do not favor that approach. I favor the direct ET approach, Eisenhower meeting with them etc. But that approach embraced by History channel explains quite a lot and does not make the people panic of the unknown. So it has its advantages too.

So who will do WW3? Russia is the first candidate for historical and prophecy reasons. However, we have a Germany that started 2 world wars, one under the Nazi regime. Is it possible another radical regime today, such as North Korea or Iran, to ignite WW3 although it is not a copy of Nazi Germany and less powerful. I rule out USA as the starter of WW3. China would not dare. India has its own problems. If it starts from India -Pakistan it will be because of hi regional tensions that right now are not evident. So I bet on a Russian surprise preemptive attack, against all words on contrary.

Or, the unknown power behind scene will show up and will attack whoever it deems necessary. Or perhaps choose someone from the above list to do it instead. Could it be Iran?

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by 2012newstart

 

I think the issue is different. We no longer have Nazis vs West. Nazis are absorbed by the West. We no longer have communism vs capitalism. The capitalists has adopted some socialist ideas, and Communists have adopted some capitalist ideas, and both have become diluted.

However we do have a civilizational divide between East and West. This divide has not bridged despite the technological advances.

I think the names are not of such importance anymore. The world is in its biggest crisis since 1929 and it suffice very little to say "capitalist" or now the non existent "communist". Nazi are a big enigma, and we should have more info first. The mission of Admiral Byrd shows it clearly. The space technology is not a monopoly of the West+USSR, if Germany had it first in pre-war years. Everything could follow from that fact. We just don't know how far ahead Germany was. All major scientists come from there including Einstein (German Jew). Why should we assume they have published everything they knew in the science magazines? And how they know it in first place? Nazi Bell alone is enough to show all that materialized in physical devices and is not hallucination nor ideas on paper (as Tesla did). BTW here we may add HAARP. By now everyone knows the name, but almost no one knows the functions.

Having all that said, I think te idea of controllers from above is not that far fetched. The fact is the nuclear war didn't break out during the Cold War no matter how close the world reached to it. Cuban crisis, or the crisis in 1983 "Able Archer". Secretary general Andropov could kill us all right from his hospital bed, thinking the West is going to attack in the next hours. Perhaps someone have stopped the hot minds from all sides, and we are still able to discuss it, now online.

I think the deadline is now, 2013, for too many reasons to be listed.

Clarifcation: I do not equal the hypothetical controllers from above to those who gave military secrets to the Nazi regime. They cannot be one of the same, even for the fact that the Nazi regime was one of the most brutal in history. The powers from above therefore cannot be one and the same entity. (or if we call them pre-historic secret civilization that remained underground, or may be on Mars, Nibiru). The more we try to explain with purely known number of facts and definitely excluding the extraterrestrial factor, the more we will enter into a labyrinth without exit.

I do not want to develop more in that direction, because this WW3 thread and many would say, don't talk of aliens here. What I want to clarify is that the German tech was granted by someone, that is not necessarily someone good, and that is not necessariy the one who built the pyramids long ago before the human civilizations. One may further speculate how USA got the microprocessor and all new tech, or how Russia got the pyramid above Kremlin. I do not see all these achievements as coming from one single source, be it on earth, under earth or off earth. We are dealing with quite different groups that may be compete for the control of humans. Above them all, you may call the above power angelic, if you are believer. But some things weren't allowed, including Hitler to get nuclear power despite he was closer than ever. Other things were allowed, as to USSR and USA to have parity during the entire cold war. It is hardy explainable, having in mind the misery in USSR especially in the first years after WW2 with al destruction. How they managed to be first in space and second in the nuclear race, without getting some help from beyond. Someone wisely controlled that delicate baance in the cold war.

Nazi are a big enigma, and we should have more info first.

You are very well informed and write with a nice style. However, I don't know what you mean by that statement. Are you talking about the American Nazi Party? They are alive and well and Party affiliations can be found in virtually every country, with some working on an underground level.

These people are non violent and simply advocate a national socialist classless system of government. I have spoken to these groups and while they are closely monitored by the FBI(mostly their donations) they are not considered subversive or are they considered a hate group. Most of the leadership is old and serving to subvert is far less important than where the closet toilet is.

Perhaps I am reading this(your statement) all wrong.

Perhaps you have info from your sources. I don't envision the neo nazi parties or the veterans at all.
My sources have been Jim Mars, Joe Farell, and the rest starring on Camelot, sure Admiral Byrd's mission to Antarctica that now is found everywhere in internet, called "High Jump." His fleet consisting of ships and one carrier, had to flee the region after unknown flying saucers came and started shooting, and sunk one ship. You'd better read the story that is lengthy. The enigma is what happened with that particular Nazi group that went to Antarctica with two subs. The subs later went to Argentinian harbor but without whatever cargo or passengers they had. This happened when the war in Europe has almost ended. You can expect everything from people and their descendants, who in the pre-war years could develop saucers. Unofficially US started reverse engineering them since 1947. You may listen to Bob Lazar who worked in Area 51. I don't believe they disappeared. Perhaps they are still in their hidden bases may be in Latin America not necessarily Antarctica. And here it is one more powerful player, who shows UFO fleets over Latin American cities in 100s at once. Type ufo fleets on youtube to see how many sightings there are. Will they take position in a coming WW3 and which one?

When ROswell crashed, the generals called the German scientists who arrived at the end of the war to investigate it. Why to call Germans on top secret crash site? Because they knew what it were. And as the story goes they could get a lot of reverse engineered staff. You can read Phillip Corso quoted by Canadian Paul Hellyer minister. The German scientist branch that went to USA worked entirely for the USA from that point on. But aren;t there other branches that escaped and work now either underground in Latin America (speculated south Peru), or Antarctica underground. The one who helped Germany may still hope for reversal of human history in their favor. I think it is virtually impossible, but who knows. Who could predict what wil happen with USA and USSR at the end of WW2, when they were so strong allies.

Originally posted by 2012newstart
reply to post by GargIndia

 

Or, the unknown power behind scene will show up and will attack whoever it deems necessary. Or perhaps choose someone from the above list to do it instead. Could it be Iran?

This thread is not about ETs, so no point going in this direction.

The only thing I can add is that humans are capable of "bursts" of scientific progress when conditions are right.

If you are hoping that ETs will save this planet from war, you will be disappointed.

Originally posted by 2012newstart
When ROswell crashed, the generals called the German scientists who arrived at the end of the war to investigate it. Why to call Germans on top secret crash site? Because they knew what it were. And as the story goes they could get a lot of reverse engineered staff. You can read Phillip Corso quoted by Canadian Paul Hellyer minister. The German scientist branch that went to USA worked entirely for the USA from that point on. But aren;t there other branches that escaped and work now either underground in Latin America (speculated south Peru), or Antarctica underground. The one who helped Germany may still hope for reversal of human history in their favor. I think it is virtually impossible, but who knows. Who could predict what wil happen with USA and USSR at the end of WW2, when they were so strong allies.

It is possible that some of the technology came from crashed UFOs. However that does not mean a collaboration between ETs and humans, or ETs taking over this world.

India / China situation
---------------------------

There is clear impact of China's tough attitude on policy making in New Delhi.

There is enhanced procurement of military equipment by India though some programs are still trapped in red tape.

However India is buying stuff most urgently needed for China border -
a. Medium transport helicopter induction gone to 60 per year - highest pace in my experience
b. C-130 transport induction (6 inducted, another 6 on order)
c. Raising of a new Corps for Eastern border
d. A number of infantry weapons purchases (anti-tank missiles, SAMs etc.)
e. C-17 transport purchase (3 inducted, 7 more on order)
f. Three Su-30 squadrons formed in the eastern sector, 3 more planned in next 3-4 years

The program still stuck is artillery purchase. However my view is that tanks and heavy artillery will be of limited use in the terrain on China/India border. India does have enough 105mm guns that can be airlifted by medium helis.

So India is doing what it should.

I do not think Chinese want to fight a nuclear war with India. There is no basis for such thinking.

reply to post by GargIndia


India / Pakistan Match-up
-------------------------------

People asked me about India / Pakistan war, so I started to compile data which is current. Started with air force as this gives the best picture of relative strength of both sides.

The Fighter squadrons are as follows:

Northern sector (Kashmir)
India Mig-21 (1 sq / Srinagar)
Mig-29 (0.5 sq / Leh)

Pakistan F-7 (3 sq / Minhas, Miawali)
JF-17 (2 sq / Peshawar)

Northern sector (Punjab)
India Mig-21 (3 sq / Pathankot, Ambala)
Mig-29 (2 sq / Adampur)
Su-30 (2 sq / Halwara, Bhatinda)
Jaguar (2 sq / Ambala)
Mig-27 (1 sq / Halwara)

Pakistan F-16 (2 sq / Mushaf)
Mirage 3 & 5 (2 sq / Rafiqi)
F-7 ( 1 sq / Rafiqi)

Southern Sector (Southern Punjab, Northern Sindh)

India Mig-21 (4 sq / Sirsa, Suratgarh, Nal, Uttarlai)
Mig-27 (3 sq / Jodhpur)
Su-30 ( 1 sq / Jodhpur)

Pakistan F-16 (1 sq / Jacobabad)
F-7 (2 sq / Quetta)

Southern Sector (Sindh)

India Mig-21 (3 sq / Naliya, Bhuj)
Mig-29 (0.5 sq / Jamnagar)
Jaguar (1 sq / Jamnagar)
Su-30 (2 sq / Pune)

Pakistan F-7 (1 sq / Masroor)
Mirage 3 & 5 (2 sq Masroor)

Most have it wrong about India.
China does not worry about India's weapons.
India is so politically, and socially fragmented
throughout the country.
China will just play groups off of each other.
Causing India to implode onto itself.
Read about this a few years back from an Asian think Tank paper.

reply to post by alpha888


Good. And how will China do that? Do you care to share the plan?

reply to post by JoeP2247

It's pretty simple regarding how history "rhymes".

Once all of those involved in a great war die off, the memory of the experience dies with them, and we repeat the mistake because we don't have anyone with first hand experience to remind us of how horrible war actually is.

Anyone who has been there will tell you there isn't anything honorable about it, anyone who is in it will try to justify what it is they do.

Nobody's right if everybody's wrong.

India Pakistan Match-up (contd..)
------------------------------------------

The objective of the matchup was to show that Pakistan does not possess a qualitative or quantitative edge in terms of fighter aircraft. Pakistan's fleet is smaller than India's and poorer in quality.

There is only a difference in density due to geographical differences. Pakistan has more bases surrounding its capital Islamabad, which happens to be close to Kashmir (Srinagar).

The same is true of New Delhi which is ringed by four airbases - Ambala in north, Sirsa in west, Bareilly in north-east, and Gwalior in south-east.

India does not field a lot of aircraft in Kashmir due to geography. The bases in Punjab are expected to cover operations in Kashmir.

There is a significant SAM threat specially to older technology planes. Again Pakistan has a bigger problem here.

Army
------

Both armies have similar equipment levels. Even the number of men is similar. India's army is double the size of Pakistan, but I am assuming a situation when India is not able to move forces from eastern borders.

India has developed significant mobility which was not present in earlier wars. Pakistan is lucky as it has flatter ground on its side, so supplies can reach the operational areas more easily. That is not the case on India's side. However the road and rail network has been developed by India quite significantly since the last war. India also has very large number of transport planes and helicopters to move forces and materiel to where it is needed. India has accumulated massive experience in air maintenance, having deployed troops in extreme conditions for a long time.

India's forces are better prepared for war, due to constant low intensity fight in kashmir. The fight has forced India to improve communication, surveillance, air maintenance, arsenals etc. significantly in the Kashmir area.