Thousands of Muslims gather in London to condemn murder of soldier Lee Rigby

reply to post by neformore



I also grew up in the 70's and 80's in Scotland...I was well aware that the terrorists who carried out these atrocities were not representative of the entire population of Ireland, but that was irrelevant if you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Neither did the terrorists particularly care who was caught up in their attacks...English, Irish, Scottish, Protestant, Catholics, it didn't matter to them.

Also many of these terrorists were harboured within their own communities, some from loyalty to the cause, some from fear of retribution.

As such you cannot wonder why people fear being attacked by radicals whatever their personal thoughts on Islam, it's not a question of growing up as you put it, but an awareness that regardless of the views of the majority of Muslims in the UK that these attacks can and will happen and as with the Republican sympathisers, who said nothing, you have to admit that there are plenty within the Muslim communities who will also say nothing and whilst there is no chance they will carry out any attacks themselves, they are, by virtue of their silence as complicit as the ones who do.

Originally posted by 2ndthought

Originally posted by johngrissom
Hey, look here, no one group of people are perfect. The United States have the KKK, Black Panthers, White Panthers, Protestants, I would like to consider some government groups to be just as bad. Especially when it comes down the government secret projects like MKUltra and drugging people with '___' without telling them.

Muslims just have their sub-group of extremists as well. So, nothing to see here.

And yet the KKK, Black Panthers, etc., aren't spreading themselves around the world randomly shooting people, chopping off heads, and blowing up marketplaces. In fact, they're hardly very active here in the US.

And yes, I do condemn their actions and beliefs.

You are absolutely right. We have the U.S. military for that now.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

but how come young people of the western world are not that in to extremism or fundamentalism ? Can you and a friend take a couple of bombs...blow up the parliament and get support from anyone? the only attention you would be getting by this...is from a cell mate if you get to the prison

During what period of time? You think there weren't destructive young radicals about during the 60s?

And how many bombs are we talking about - over what length of time?

How many events have we had like this - period? Are you really so easily led that you're willing to make that leap - Muslims are just flat out dangerous? They are the problem?

my point exactly. Did he win any support with it? No, it didn't made me afraid of white Americans...because his deed was aimed at the Gov if I'm not mistaken. It wasn't a movement, a group of extremists...it was a single man that had a grudge. Hardly comparable to religious extremist groups that have a continuing agenda.

Really - McVeigh was just a lone nutcase with a grudge? He had no support?

The Muslims, on the other hand are different?

You think it's all this or all that - but you kind of made my point for me. The Tsarnaevs may or may not have had some backup - I guess we'll find out further down the road - maybe

But right now it's looking more like two angry young men that wanted to make a statement

Are there any religious extremist groups in our country besides the Muslims? Have they ever resorted to violence?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by xavi1000

 

They are pretending and lying !
Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Please explain to all of us.... why you have the image of a MUSLIM actor, Shah Rukh Kahn.... as your avatar.

edit on 27-5-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

I liked the picture , that's all

One demonstration does not repair the damage done. I watch and KNOW that this is just a show. These Muslims are fearful of the threats to destroy their Mosques. I am angry and tired of turning the other cheek for another slap as they laugh and exploit our CHRISTIAN charity. I will not be lead like a sheep to slaughter. I do not trust this rehearsed public display.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


Really - McVeigh was just a lone nutcase with a grudge? He had no support?

The Muslims, on the other hand are different?

You may not be aware of it but McVeighs own lawyer lays out how Tim and Terry Christianson had Al Quadia connections. Terry learned to make the fertilizer bomb from an Al Quadia cell while in the Philippians.

Originally posted by Cayla19
reply to post by ollncasino

 

I don't understand why people immigrate to a country (and I don't mean all I just mean those to whom this applies) and refuse to oblige by the country's rules.

I'm going on a limb here... To take it over?

reply to post by neformore


I've been waiting since the first World Trade Center bombing for muslims to come out in any kind of number against the use of violence.

It's about frickin' time.

reply to post by Logarock

You may not be aware of it but McVeighs own lawyer lays out how Tim and Terry Christianson had Al Quadia connections. Terry learned to make the fertilizer bomb from an Al Quadia cell while in the Philippians.

So - Timothy McVeigh was a Muslim???!!!!

Explains so much - doesn't it?

Substitute Ted Kaczynski then - since you can't seem to understand the point I was making

Did Mr. Kaczynski make you feel afraid of white Americans?

Or was Ted a Muslim too?

:-)

Out of here for the day - give my regards to Casino

reply to post by yeti101


Really?

How dead is dead, exactly?

If you're dead, does it matter if its some Irish nutter who did it, or some fundamentalist nutter who did it.

If I look at the statistics - as some people in this thread seem to want to do constantly - I have more to fear from Irish sectarian violence than anything a couple of fundamentalist muslim nutters can throw about, because I have experienced MORE Irish terrorism in my lifetime - and so has anyone thats been alive in the UK for the past 43 years - than I have fundamentalist muslim terrorism.

So, as I said, drawing the conclusions some people want to draw, all Irish people are evil, and everyone in Ireland needs to apologise to me.

And, while they're at it, anyone in the states who feels like apologising to me can do as well, given that Noraid actively funded the IRA from the US for a considerable period of time.

Originally posted by neformore

Ok. We get it. You really, really really dislike muslims to the point where you try and define the faith you find so abhorrent in order to further your view of it.

I am not trying to define the Muslim faith.

Mainstream Islam has decided that the 5,000 Ahmadiyya sect Muslims who dedicated their prayers to the murdered soldier are heretics!

The short documentary is a collection of testimonies in which those Ahmadis who have faced persecution narrate the target killings of loved ones, discrimination at the hands of fellow students and what it is like to live in jail as a blasphemy convict.

Link

Your OP



I am impressed that you can carry on with your thread, even though the 5,000 Ahmadiyya are being persecuted by mainstream Muslims, as if nothing has happened!

reply to post by neformore

And, while they're at it, anyone in the states who feels like apologising to me can do as well, given that Noraid actively funded the IRA from the US for a considerable period of time.

And I totally agree with that and of course the irony that it was a fundamentalist Muslim attack on the US that finally put an end to the donations...

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Exactly. And very well put too.

People aren't thinking. They're being dumb.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by yeti101

 

Really?

How dead is dead, exactly?

If you're dead, does it matter if its some Irish nutter who did it, or some fundamentalist nutter who did it.

If I look at the statistics - as some people in this thread seem to want to do constantly - I have more to fear from Irish sectarian violence than anything a couple of fundamentalist muslim nutters can throw about, because I have experienced MORE Irish terrorism in my lifetime - and so has anyone thats been alive in the UK for the past 43 years - than I have fundamentalist muslim terrorism.

So, as I said, drawing the conclusions some people want to draw, all Irish people are evil, and everyone in Ireland needs to apologise to me.

And, while they're at it, anyone in the states who feels like apologising to me can do as well, given that Noraid actively funded the IRA from the US for a considerable period of time.

As a white American I sincerely apologize for my countries actions.

HOLD UP!

My countries leaders did these things without my knowledge or consent. Hmmmm better for me to apologize for Americans not caring enough to inform themselves and allowing the warmongers who run this country to take office in order to lie, cheat, steal, and kill.

Originally posted by neformore

True story

Growing up as a child in the 70's and 80's in the UK, up to m early teens I was scared of Irish people.

Irish people were bad. They shot each other. Kneecappings and sectarian killings were rife. They blew people up with car bombs, nail bombs. And pipe bombs. They blew up town and city centres. I used to flinch at Irish accents and actively avoid anyone that had one. Omagh and Londonderry were the pits of hell.

Hell, they even came close to killing me twice..

And then I grew up, and realised that not all Irish people were to blame. Just a few. A very small minority.

According to some posters here - applying their logic - all Irish people are evil and always will be.

Think about it.

edit on 27/5/13 by neformore because: (no reason given)

Contrary to what's been posted by almost everyone who you disagree with, you still wish to make people believe that we consider ALL Muslims as evil. Not very 'moderate' of you.

You obviously have a great deal of passion in this debate, but I think you protest to much. To the point that you are blinding yourself to what's really being said.

I leave you with a quote of one of your countries past leaders...

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." ~Winston Churchill

Originally posted by buster2010


To make your picture true you would only need about 30 attacks.

There are plenty more than that.

But let's look at some British ones from the MI5 website?

* 27 February 2002
Moinul Abedin was sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment after being convicted of making large amounts of detonators and the explosive HMTD in a Birmingham house.

* 1 April 2003
Leicester residents Brahim Benmerzouga and Baghdad Merziane were each sentenced to 11 years' imprisonment for their roles in fundraising for Al Qaida and other extremist groups.

* 1 March 2005
Saajit Badat was imprisoned for 13 years following his admission that he had plotted with jailed shoe-bomber Richard Reid to destroy an airliner over the Atlantic.

* 13 April 2005
Kamel Bourgass was convicted of plotting to commit a public nuisance by the use of poisons and/or explosives to cause disruption, fear or injury. He was already serving a life sentence for the murder of PC Stephen Oake.

* 7 February 2006
Radical London cleric Abu Hamza was convicted of incitement to murder and sentenced to 7 years.

* 7 November 2006
Al Qaida operative Dhiren Barot was sentenced to a minimum of 30 years' imprisonment after admitting a plot to attack UK and US targets using a "dirty bomb" and gas-filled limousines.

* 30 April 2007
Five men were imprisoned for life after being convicted of a plot to attack targets such as shopping centres and nightclubs using fertiliser-based explosives; two others were acquitted.

* 15 June 2007
Seven men were jailed for a total of 136 years for their involvement in Dhiren Barot's "dirty bomb" plot and "Gas Limos Project".

* 5 July 2007
Three men were imprisoned for up to 10 years after being convicted of using the Internet to promote terrorism.

* 11 July 2007
The four would-be suicide bombers of 21 July 2005 were given life sentences following their convictions on charges of conspiracy to murder. A fifth man involved in the plot was convicted in November 2007.

* 26 July 2007
Five students were convicted on charges of possessing material for terrorist purposes with the intention of going to terrorist training camps in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

* 9 Jan 2008
Sohail Anjum Qureshi, an Al Qaida-trained terrorist intent on carrying out an act of terrorism overseas, was jailed for four and a half years.

* 18 February 2008
Five conspirators were convicted of plotting to kidnap and behead a British soldier and were sentenced to terms of between two years and life.

* 17 December 2008
Bilal Abdulla, an Iraqi citizen who worked in a hospital in Paisley, Scotland, was sentenced to 32 years' imprisonment for his role in terrorist attacks carried out in London and Glasgow International Airport in June 2007.

* 14 September 2009
In one of a series of trials, three men who plotted in 2006 to blow up aircraft mid-flight between the UK, America and Canada by using liquid explosives were jailed for life.

* 8 July 2010
Ibrahim Savant, Arafat Khan and Waheed Zaman were convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment for conspiracy to murder persons unknown. By this point a total of twelve people had been convicted in seven trials for terrorism-related offences in connection with the 2006 aircraft bomb plot.

* 2 November 2010
Roshonara Choudhry, a student from East London, was convicted of attempting to murder the MP Stephen Timms after being inspired by extremist sermons she had watched on the Internet.

* 18 March 2011
Rajib Karim, an IT worker for British Airways, was convicted and sentenced to 30 years' imprisonment for supplying information about airlines to al Qaida terrorists in Yemen.

* 9 February 2012
Nine men who were members of a terrorist network in England and Wales were sentenced to between five and 17 years' imprisonment for offences including plotting to attack the London Stock Exchange and seeking terrorist training overseas.

• 18 April 2013
Four men from Luton were given lengthy jail sentences for engaging in conduct and preparation for acts of terrorism. The men had planned to carry out terrorist attacks in Luton and elsewhere with improvised explosive devices to be made using instructions from an Al Qaida magazine.

• 25 April 2013
Three London men were jailed for a total of over 20 years after pleading guilty to engaging in conduct in preparation for acts of terrorism.

• 26 April 2013
Eleven men from Birmingham were sentenced to terms of imprisonment ranging from 40 months to life for their involvement in a major terrorist plot. They had planned to carry out suicide bomb attacks on a bigger scale than the 7/7 attacks in London in 2005.

• 30 April 2013
Six West Midlands men have pleaded guilty to terrorist charges after admitting an attempt to carry out an attack on an EDL rally on 30 June 2012.

[url=https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/the-threats/terrorism/international-terrorism/international-terrorism-and-the-uk/terrorist-plots-in-the-uk.html]MI5[/ url]

You would only need 30 attacks?

How many is that just in the UK...

reply to post by SuicideBankers

My countries leaders did these things without my knowledge or consent.

That's one to remember in the future when an American says...well that's what you Brits get for invading the rest of the world

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by SuicideBankers

 

My countries leaders did these things without my knowledge or consent.

That's one to remember in the future when an American says...well that's what you Brits get for invading the rest of the world

I imagine your countries government has done things without the consent of its people. I find it pretty hypocritical when an American tells a brit thats what you get for invading the world when America has more than its fair share of blood on its hands. I may not agree with some of your beliefs but that doesn't mean I am blind to my own countrys atrocities.

reply to post by SuicideBankers


Star for that...long may we agree to disagree..heck who knows we may even agree on something one day

Originally posted by buster2010

And next time read a link before posting it.

You claim that Ahmadis are considered non Muslim and have been subject to various forms of persecution and discrimination but you leave out where and why this happens.

Where does this mostly happen?

In Islamic countries which are Sunni dominated. And why does this happen? Because they are Sunnah. Nice attempt to twist the facts.

So you are agreeing that the Ahmadis (members of the OP's 5,000 Muslims) are persecuted in Sunni countries?

You do realize that 85 -90% of all Muslims are Sunni?

I don't think you did.

Hillary Clinton about Anti-Ahmadiyya laws Persecution in Pakistan Islam Ahmadiyya



State Sponsored Persecution: Ahmadiyya Muslim Mosque Sealed in Indonesia



Ahmadi Muslims are being persecuted in a number of Islamic countries now including Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia.