Was Jesus Christ just a man? Aetheists vs. Christians, Battle Royale

reply to post by Akragon


Oh, they'll start flooding in.

That doesn't mean it still won't be just as one sided though.

I'm agnostic as well ( I don't have all the answers), but tend to lean towards the Atheist side more.

IMO Atheist and Religious people have something in common. That is faith. The atheist can use logic and reason to conclude the unlikely existence of a GOD . However in the end, there is no factual evidence to denounce or prove that God exists or doesn't exists, so it boils down to faith (either you believe or don't believe.)

The God in the sense of how religion describes him,her,it,etc is nonsense to me. However, as far as I know there is no laws in physics that backs the creation of something out of nothing. What started the Big Bang, what existed before that , what was the first thing that existed?

My inability to comprehend how something comes from nothing and our limited scientific knowledge of how the first thing came to exist (not just this universe nor the big bang) , I can't even imagine what is out their beyond our current comprehension?

Hence I can't truly begin to exclude the possibility of a creator with 100% certainty. Hence a leap of faith needs to be made whether a creator exists or not IMO.

What I have find of interest and help me develop a glimpse of what I belive might exist before or after our existence:

1. Energy can't be destroyed nor created. We are energy hence I feel we will be transformed into another form of energy.

2. All living things share one thing in common, hence I think it might have something to do with the big picture. All living things have THEIR OWN unique experiences.

The rest is imagination assuming our law of physics or my understanding of them is accurate.

Perhaps we take those unique experiences and dump it into a universal energy bin and we get recycled. But who started or created the universal energy bin? Always boils down to the initial start of something from nothing.

Got to go but I will leave it at that.

If you see God walking towards you, would think he a man? Jesus Christ is God in the flesh..

Well, I don't think jesus was a woman although he would have to have had an xx gene...

Jesus was supposed to be a Messiah. I don't know how he became the only begotten son of god. Even the Muslims think that he was a Messiah. He called god his father, god is everyone's father. We aren't always good kids though.

I believe in god, I consider him a friend but don't really worship him. I thank god and mother earth for providing for me as a sign of respect. I suppose I am no longer a Christian because my beliefs are so different than Christians. Oh well, what the hell, I'll see everyone I know there.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Akragon

 

Oh, they'll start flooding in.

That doesn't mean it still won't be just as one sided though.

Perhaps i'll put my Axe down and let the villagers play...

*sigh*

Originally posted by Spawn2001
At the dawn of civilization, a man came forward named Jesus.

Woah there! are you trying to tell us that civilization began when jesus stepped onto the stage?

Check your history.

reply to post by TurtleSmacker


YOU: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

---Isn't this the point of the Bible's narrative? Not only is he able, he knows the end of the story and it ends well for all who trust and have faith in what is evident. Preventing evil means first allowing it. Free will depends on the opportunity to choose.

YOU: Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing?

---Neither of these premises are accurately stated. He is both able and willing. The plan is in motion.

YOU: Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing?

---Yes, but not malevolent. God's will is to give only. This is why were are here in an image rather than consciously awake in paradise. We are prodigals; willing participants in the mud.

YOU: Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

---What interval would you like to claim for God to allow free will, but preclude the choice to choose the opposite direction of truth? Can we choose to manipulate opposites apart from there being a choice that brings evil? Free will demands that all outcomes are freely available, but by limits. The limit is the guardian of the law. What interval would you like to claim for God to stamp out evil? One week? One day? 1 second? 7,000 years?

The law is our guardian, yet we have free will. Free will is a choice with every action having a reaction.

Galatians 3

Under the heading: (Children of God)

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I think the bottom line for most Atheists is this: God is both willing and able to show us truth and bind us to it. He is both able and willing to raise us as the children and restricting our freedom and will by law. For those of us who grow up in this image and mature to adulthood, the laws and restrictions are removed.

EMET=Truth = Aleph Mem Tav

EMET is truth. Truth is the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet, with MEM (WATER) in the middle. You must be born again. We are raised in an image and water is the key to the entire thing. Water puts out fire and fire burns when we break the law. It is our guardian. Baptism is our immersion into the river of life. We are involved (involution) in the water so we can rise to new life (Evolve).

Involution and Evolution

Where does the image lead when we find the key out the door?

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Love is the key. I would gladly live 1000 lives to find the key if it means living as a loving person in the end, free from the restrictions of law. If I refuse the key I hold in my hand, I remain locked in the prison until I learn I have the key in my hand.

reply to post by interupt42


You're making the mistake of the old "atheists use logic and reasoning, Christians just use blind faith." No true believer becomes a believer by jumping into the darkness and hoping Christ catches them. The Bible calls for us to jump OUT of the darkness and into the light. 1 Peter 3:15 tells us to "...Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,". God has given us two wonderful types of revelation: Special and general. Special revelation was found in miracles and charismatic gifts of the Spirit (which we no longer have) and is still found in Scripture, while general revelation (or natural revelation) is that revelation of God which is found in everything. Whether it be a blade of grass or a nebula, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." (Psalm 19:1)

If natural revelation isn't enough for you, theologians throughout history have made solid rational deductions to the existence of a God. For instance, the law of causality shows us that there must be a God. The law of contradiction shows us that, no matter what we want to believe, ex nihilo nihil fit (From Nothing Comes Nothing).

reply to post by rickymouse


No, Muslims don't think He's the Messiah. They think He's just a prophet who, in their End Times, will come and "set Christians straight" by proclaiming himself a Muslim and not the Son of God. In fact, Allah doesn't permit any partners to himself.

reply to post by nerbot


The Triune Deity, three in person and one in essence, was there in the beginning. Check your Bible.

"Was Jesus Christ just a man??? Aetheists VS Christians,"

Atheists are not the real experts in this investigation - the real experts are the Jews, and they are a religion....a race? an ethnicity? Whatever, but Jesus Christ was a Jew and so I think you should ask them.

I'm a believer, yet I'm torn. I don't want to live on after this. I want it to go dark, I want to be forgotten. I want it to go black.

Originally posted by Covertblack
I'm a believer, yet I'm torn. I don't want to live on after this. I want it to go dark, I want to be forgotten. I want it to go black.

Why?

Is life so bad?

Could you imagine it without pain, or sorrow... or hunger/thirst?

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by nerbot

 

The Triune Deity, three in person and one in essence, was there in the beginning. Check your Bible.

Why would I have one of those? I don't have a wobbly table.

reply to post by Akragon


If it's in the Bible it may be forgery. I prefer to see scrolls that are originals, then I'll admit my fault.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


First, you're assuming evil has ontological status. Evil is not a "thing". Evil is that which is not good (that which isn't Godly is not good, therefore evil).

Secondly, if God is Sovereign, then all things are predestined and there is no free will. If there is free will, then God is not Sovereign and Scripture is wrong. If God is Sovereign and there is no free will, then God has predestined some to be inclined towards evil, and some of us to be inclined toward good. Therefore, God can still prevent evil, retain his omnipotent and benevolent states, and it would end the "problem of evil."

But it's much easier to understand than that: I'm a filthy sinner. You're a filthy sinner. We won't deserve to LIVE, much less have an easy life without evil. To suggest that we DESERVE to live in a nice, happy, fluffy world of bright colors and cute bunnies is a slap in the face of God, to whom we are far, far, far from equal to in importance and knowledge.

Originally posted by terriblyvexed
reply to post by Akragon

 

If it's in the Bible it may be forgery. I prefer to see scrolls that are originals, then I'll admit my fault.

Fair enough... though you might have to do a bit of traveling...

Not to mention learning a few different ancient languages...

There is an easier way to find out if what is written is real though...

I see no real fault honestly... I don't believe everything that's written in the bible... so..

reply to post by nerbot


I know there were other things going on I mean maybe in its infantry . I heard B.C. Be called before Christ and A.D. After death. I know it's wrong , but the Chinese New Year is something like 5400.

reply to post by nerbot


Because without it you're destined for oblivion (in the best scenario) or destined for eternal suffering (in the worst scenario).

reply to post by terriblyvexed


If it's a forgery, then surely there would be errors or contradictions somewhere in the Bible. If it's all a forgery, I can guarantee you'll find it's full of errors and contradictions.

Unfortunately for your argument, you won't find any.