Was Jesus Christ just a man? Aetheists vs. Christians, Battle Royale

Text The Triune Deity, three in person and one in essence, was there in the beginning. Check your Bible.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


@ FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Have heard that some Christian cults believe in three gods in one or trinity but have never really understood it nor have I ever gotten scripture that explains that. Can you help me on that?

reply to post by Akragon


Contemplation? Tell that to the prisoners.

reply to post by Seede


There is no scripture saying God is a trinity that matters...

Anything that even remotely points to a trinity is found outside of the gospels...

And the one piece within the gospels that says "father son and holy spirit baptism" was spoken after his death... Which is suspicious...

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


That's why, even though Christianity is the world's largest religion, Scripture is correct in saying that it is a narrow path with few walking upon it. Many, many Christians believe in false doctrines, counterfeit scripture, faith in man and tradition, and their own logic and reasoning. For this reason, many Christians are still fallen until they can absolutely rely on Scripture and put absolute faith in Christ as their Savior, period.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Akragon

 

Contemplation? Tell that to the prisoners.

No need... What else is there to do in an 8x8 cell...

reply to post by terriblyvexed


The hand of man, guided by the Holy Spirit, meaning that it is absolutely inerrant and gives an accurate representation of the creation of the universe.

"In the beginning God created" implies a First Cause, which is unnecessary for there to be anything. For there to be anything, there must be a pre-existent something that can move everything. To move everything into a state of order and integrity, that being must have greater order and integrity, explicitly reasoning the existence of God.

The only arguments based on faith I see here are irrational conclusions that everything can come from nothing and don't need a first cause, which is not only bad philosophy, it's bad science.

reply to post by Seede


Some have made the claim that the Trinity is illogical because it's a contradiction, but they must understand the difference between a contradiction and a paradox. The Trinity is a paradox, that is, something that seems contradictory at first until further inspection.

God is Triune, meaning He is three in person, one in essence. Thus, the Trinity is not three separate Gods, nor is it a contradiction. It meets the requirements of the law of contradiction.

Each person (I use "person" in a loose sense) has different attributes, but all tie in to God. In other words, all three persons are Holy, all three persons are one in essence. The true nature of the Trinity is a mystery. It's mysterious because we as humans cannot fully grasp the totality of that truth, but just because we have trouble understanding it doesn't mean it's not true.

Why is this Atheists vs. Christians?

You are aware only one religion thinks Jesus was God, that religion is called Christianity.

How about Christians vs. Everyone else?

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

 

So you say.

Nevertheless -- manipulating that fear, through nationalism, false-pride, desire for revenge, or greed is easy. Millions have willingly marched to their death. Some even imagined god was on their side while they did. You asked how / why men would die for a faith that wasn't real. I don't know if it is "real" or not, but I know its easy to get people to die for all kinds of reasons. Even in 2013.

As you said before, death is the splinter in our side. When viewed correctly, Death is merely rest before waking again. Morning comes with clockwork. With this aside, what was our objective? Subdue the Earth and learn the opposites of good and evil.

Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

Doubts of the validity of this reality can only come as reasonable and evident truths are hidden. From nature, we verify that the laws in the Bible are renderings of nature in a mirror. All of the highest axioms we hold concerning human nature, science, morality and so on come from the pages of the mirror we hold up to our own faces. The truth is evident in many ways, but the understanding of the image is the most evident.

Genesis 1:27 gives us the first clue:

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Look in a mirror. Is the image you? No. You are the one casting it. This is you:

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

The Mother is Mater. From Mater, we get Mother / Matrix (Womb) and Matter. Check this thread: Linguistics of Word and World

You are in the image, yes, but the Matrix of that image is the womb carrying you to the final destination. The move Matrix is a valid way of seeing the division between both worlds. Genesis 2 is the second creation and rendering of the image into material form by the LORD. Genesis 1 is the Elohim creating the archetypes.

2 Creation Stories Thread

I should not be able to give you such good answers that both agree with truth and the intuition in your reasoning. The only reason I can is because the Bible was already there to provide the highest axiom.

Consider the image and the mirror of reality. EMET=Truth = Aleph Mem Tav. The first letter, middle letter and last letter. Beginning middle and end. The MEM is water. Baptism is our immersion between the beginning and end of time. We are involved to evolve. Involution and Evolution Thread

reply to post by Akragon


Certainly there is nothing in the Bible that explicit declares the Trinity, nor are the words Trinity or Triune used in Scripture. However, we use Trinity and Triune as words encapsulating Biblical truths that CAN be found in the Bible explicity.

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Acts 5:3 - But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 John 5:20 - And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 1:18 - Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

John 14:16 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:10 - Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Well, if you listen to Polycarp, then everyone who isn't in Christ is an atheist.

And that's why they killed him.

I have been lurking in the back and reading every post. Jesus is the messiah of one religion and aetheist is the rejection of any god or deity. I see the aetheists every day here bashing . This thread is for the religious and anti-religious. I wanted to see where it would go. This thread wasn't made for Jewish or Buddhism or Scientology . And they wouldn't really care about Jesus .

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Unfortunately none of those verses show God is a trinity... This is a theory that was created well after the fact by use of such verses...

Jesus said there is one God... Not three, not three in one... He said that God is greater then himself, meaning Jesus was not equal to his Father like Paul said...

And nothing says that "the holy ghost" is God either...

In Matthew The Author claims this was a child of the holy ghost... Jesus didn't say anything like that...

He did say he was the son of God... Not a God... Or The God...

And I and my Father are one is referring to his essence.... Meaning he is the essence of his Father and mother, as all children are...

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Luckily for me, I don't put much stock in the ramblings of the religious philosophers of 2000 years ago.

reply to post by Akragon


Denying the Trinity means you deny Scripture, as it says in Scripture:

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. (2 Corinthians 13:14)

God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Corinthians 1:9)

Since I have to go soon, there's a great website concerning triadic Biblical verses concerning the Trinity that you should read: www.bible.ca...

In order to strip Scripture of evidence for the Trinity, you must either change the inherent meaning of words, change translations, or misrepresent statements, all of which are extremely dangerous for a Christian to do.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


"Ramblings" of men who saw Christ die on the cross and rise from the dead as He had said He would.

I understanding you want them to be ramblings, because if they're ramblings, you don't have to take them seriously. But if they're not ramblings, then you're beholden to them, if not in this life, then in the life to come.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by terriblyvexed

 

The hand of man, guided by the Holy Spirit, meaning that it is absolutely inerrant and gives an accurate representation of the creation of the universe.

"In the beginning God created" implies a First Cause, which is unnecessary for there to be anything. For there to be anything, there must be a pre-existent something that can move everything. To move everything into a state of order and integrity, that being must have greater order and integrity, explicitly reasoning the existence of God.

The only arguments based on faith I see here are irrational conclusions that everything can come from nothing and don't need a first cause, which is not only bad philosophy, it's bad science.

Wouldn't god need a beginning based on that argument? Yet,I know you'll say god always was, and that's as impossible to believe as matter forming from nothing in a big bang.

I think you use religion to explain what can't be explained, which is why religion of any kind was made to start with people have to believe they know why we're here, how we got here.

I'm not bothered with these questions. I've never opened someone elses medicine cabinet because I don't care about the mystery of what's in it. I feel the same about life it is what it is. I don't need a book to make me feel like I'm more than a coincidence.

I don't need to be good so I'll be rewarded with eternal life, I'm good because I choose to be.
I've never killed because I'm afraid of burning in some hell, but because it's wrong to my morals.

Your god is a genocidal jealous narcissists! thou shalt not kill, thou shalt be smited with fire, and brimstone.
The guy is a loon do as I say not as I do, think only of me love me only me or I'll punish you forever!

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Fair enough. Frankly -- I find your faith inspiring. I wonder if you share with me your thoughts on the relatively new theory among modern Jewish scholars, and mainstream historians / archaeologists that the story of Exodus is fiction, that the Jewish people were never enslaved to the Egyptians, and that Jews were historically Canaanites who worshiped many gods, one of which was YHWH?

Does this change anything with regard to the Bible? If that much of the OT is pure fiction, why did Jesus never speak against the injustice of the Jewish people's belief -- at that time -- that the Egyptians had enslaved them, and that they had wandered for 40 years in the desert, led by Moses, who brought the ten commandments down from Mount Sinai, and so on?
.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Denying the Trinity means you deny Scripture, as it says in Scripture:

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. (2 Corinthians 13:14)

God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. (1 Corinthians 1:9)

I deny paul on the regular actually... I have at least three threads dealing with him....

In order to strip Scripture of evidence for the Trinity, you must either change the inherent meaning of words, change translations, or misrepresent statements, all of which are extremely dangerous for a Christian to do.

Im no Christian my friend...

But if you want to play that way... Im game

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Accepting the trinity is to deny your saviours words... So you prefer the words of men as opposed to the words of the son of God?

Perhaps he was just kidding around though...

reply to post by terriblyvexed


No. Every EFFECT must have a cause. The First Cause is not an effect, and is by its very nature eternal, therefore needing no cause. God being "always was" is a difficult concept to comprehend, because it implies there was no time, but there was God, who brought everything into existence. But without something before nothing, we would have absolutely nothing. As I've said before, if anything does exist, God exists. Since something exists, God does exist.

I don't "use religion to explain what can't be explained", because it CAN be explained, and I've explained it extensively multiple times, but at best you seem to be glossing over it in your own pride and presupposition.

Christians are not good because they "get something out of it", because if that's the case, it's from a selfish desire, and nothing truly good can come from it. It would be completely illogical to hope for something good to come from something that is, in itself, evil.

Can God be genocidal? Absolutely, God is Sovereign and to think we "deserve life" is too narcissistic for words. Is God jealous? Of course, righteously jealous for us giving things to dead idols and other humans what rightfully belongs to Him. Narcissist? You're implying God has some sort of human factor to Him, and is thusly narcissistic. No, God deserves all glory, all praise, all worship, because He is Almighty, ruler of the heavens and Earth.

You seem to have a far too distorted understanding of Scripture and the revealed and manifest knowledge of God and His nature. You keep giving Him anthropomorphic characteristics which don't belong on Him in the first place, and then attack those characteristics that don't exist. It's a veritable straw man on all fronts.