WAR: 10,000 Troops Amass Around Fallujah, Attack Imminent.

The much-anticipated assault on Fallujah could begin any hour now. Iraqi PM Allawi has stated that the window for negotiations is closing, and US and coalition forces are amassed on the outskirts of Fallujah awaiting orders to begin the assault. Most civilians have already left the city, and those that haven't are being urged to leave.



Aerial Bombardment and artillery have already been used to hit known locations. The new offensive that is expected will be a house-to-house search for terrorists and insurgents. US and Iraqi forces would like to have the restive city under control prior to elections being held in Iraq this January.

An assault of this magnitude has not taken place in Iraq since last Aprils fighting also in Fallujah. The April battle was undertaken by US Marines.

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[edit on 9-11-2004 by Banshee]

What is the goal? To kill the terrorists? I mean, are there XXX number of terrorists, and after they kill them, the city is won?

They are going to have to stay there and secure it. It's going to be a bloody occupation. The residents will never accept the US as liberators, especially after bombing the crap out of thier town. You can't bomb your way out of this problem. The policies need to change so that we stop creating terrorists.

The goal is to break Zikari (sp). He's been given chance after chance to join the government in a meaningful way. But he's Iran's stooge. Our goal is to destroy his power base and probably use him and his forces as an example. It's brutal, but thats probably the truth.

The goal is to break Zikari (sp). He's been given chance after chance to join the government in a meaningful way.

Eh?? What are you on chap? Its not about Zarqari joing the Iraq governemnt, as he is firstly a terrorist, and secondly he is Jordanian, so he wouldn't even be eligible to vote, let alone join the Government.

I think you are getting Moqtada Sadr (A shia, not a sunni, which is who occupies fallujah) and Zarqari mixed up mate.

Kill kill kill

go for it. its what we do best.

Lets sit back and see what develops. This is what we stand for for the next 4 years.
War is what we do best.

Major combat is over

Besides that what are we waiting for? If they know there are terrorists in there then go in and get em.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Kill kill kill

go for it. its what we do best.

Lets sit back and see what develops. This is what we stand for for the next 4 years.
War is what we do best.

Does anybody really think Fallujah is swarming with "terrorists"? What if it's just the ordinary guy on the street who's had it with his family being blown up, and wants no part of "liberation"?
This is starting to look like it could be a massacre of innocents to me.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

Does anybody really think Fallujah is swarming with "terrorists"? What if it's just the ordinary guy on the street who's had it with his family being blown up, and wants no part of "liberation"?
This is starting to look like it could be a massacre of innocents to me.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

I doubt thats the case.

You may have one or two ordinary guys on the street, but not enough to bring in 10,000 soildiers.

Even if it does turn into a "final battle" for Fallujah between the Coalition Forces and insurgents, and not the wholesale massacre of the innocent Iraqis caught in the middle between coalition that some expect doesnt matter.

There will be innocent victims in this sort of thing, there always are when a larger well armed force have to clear out irregular forces whose chief defence of thier power base is to hide behind a civilian population in a built up area. I'm wishing the best for the Iraqis in Fallujah who just want this to be over so they can get some sembance of normalacy within the next five years.

No matter how well the troops manage the situation, most of the people decided against them will not beleive it if its true anyway (as opposed to thier supporters who will only always beleive the best of them regardless or don't give a fig for the civilian casualties)

At the moment the "Kill em all" and "Yeah, now we really are gonna have the proof Americas evil" camps both disgust me. You really truely deserve each other.

Good luck to the troops, best wishes and prayers to the innocents caught in the middle,and to the insurgents and thier core of supporters....Burn in Hell.

I support the war, but I don't like it and I will not apologise for either.

[edit on 5-11-2004 by craigandrew]

Originally posted by hellbunnyDoes anybody really think Fallujah is swarming with "terrorists"? What if it's just the ordinary guy on the street who's had it with his family being blown up, and wants no part of "liberation"?
This is starting to look like it could be a massacre of innocents to me.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

innocents? right, if any innocent is hurt its their fault, they were warned to get out, it wont be a massare, it will be bloody like last time, now that bush no longer has reelection to worry about, he wont order a ceasefire like last time during the fight.

its war, street guy or not, if he fights hes the enemy, they've waited days, but no the insurgents havent bothered to discuss peace, stop feeling sorry, their fate is their own fault.

Originally posted by Thatoneguy

I doubt thats the case.

You may have one or two ordinary guys on the street, but not enough to bring in 10,000 soildiers.

irregular forces can do more than u think, im sure thousands are there, falluja is not a small town.

Thatoneguy, I dont know your politics either way but....(and this is not meant as a put down)

You have no concept of it do you?

There may only be several hundred, possibly a couple of thousand armed insurgents in Falllujah, and several times that many core supporters and camp followers. In the scheme of things though not many amongst tens of thousands of the population.

But of those 10,000 Coalition troops many are not going to be, strictly speaking, combat troops but armed support elements. And they are going into an urban environment, the home turf of many of the insurgents. I beleive the Coalition Forces will "win" this battle militarily but it is not going to be a cakewalk. They are going to need every warm body they have to pull this off.

For years the ADF based its exercises on the basis we expected no mass invasion, as feared in 1941-42. Our model was on low level raiding forces being placed into our northern resources belt to cause major panic and disruption to our economy, based on the tactics used by the Suharto regime of Indonesia against the Malaysian Federation in the 1960s.

Most of the Indon inflitration forces were not even highly trained SF but irregular cadres....expendable and meant to cause maximum alarm. It was shown time and again that relatively small numbers (100 to 1000) such irregulars could do disproportional damage and require disproportional responses to counter with. In our case, we would sometimes deploy on exercises 20,000 ADF personnel (mainly support and logistical) to manage the situation across the top end.

In an urban warfare situation I can wholely beleive the Coalition is going to need every man and every round to complete this job.

Ugly, isn't it?

Some of those innocents don't have a way out genius. The concept of having so little that you stay and watch over it because it is your life is an alien concept to you isnt it? The idea that families stay with thier sick, injured and thier elderly to care for them does not occur to you does it.
Or that fear that getting caught in a cross fire or shot out of hand for failing to show support for the insurgents by trying to leave parylises some people with fear. Or that some of them simply have no place else to go.
They just can't call a cab and drive off outa there.

Put it this way. You get caught in between a shoot out by cops and drug dealers, are YOU going to move. Try living that 24/7/52.

Craigandrew, are you under the impression that I believe we have too many going into Fallujah? That's not the case.

I believe 10,000 troops, support and combat, is necessary. I was getting the impression that some people think that we aren't fighting terrorists/insurgents, but we are fighting innocent civilians.

I was responding to this

"What if it's just the ordinary guy on the street who's had it with his family being blown up, and wants no part of "liberation"? "

I'm sure alot of the old farts that are set in their ways wont leave the city because alot of them were born there or they're of the same mindset that some Americans are when asked to leave before a bad storm. "Young wupper-snappers aren't going to make me leave my land."

Then there are those that wont leave because they want to protect their homes.

Some people are just hard headed. I worry about them. The town isn't all bad, just most of whats left there. When the crap hits the fan and the ammo starts to fly tomorrow, alot of hard headed and/or stupid people are going to die.

I hope the innocent people killed will be held to a minimum through proper leadership and cool heads.

nevermind


[edit on 5-11-2004 by Thatoneguy]

Sorry Thatoneguy. Sort of an interpretive comment you posted thier. Apologies for getting the wrong end of the stick.

To accurately say whether there are too many troops or not going into the city you first need to look at how big the "enemy" is, and how spread out the city is. If it's a large city 10,000 troops would probably be stretched quite thin in places. Also didn't the article suggest that the coalition forces may try to basically barracade the entire city, so no-one can come in or out without them knowing about it? In which case 10,000 doesn't sound like nearly enough to pull something like that off if it's a spread out city.

It's unfortunate, but the only way these insurgents etc are going to be flushed out / killed is by causing mass disturbance to the entire city. Every home will need to be searched, that's just the reality of the situation. It won't be pleasant for the coalition forces, and it won't be pleasant for any residents that either wouldn't or couldn't get out of th city in time.

There will be innocent casualties, there will be mass insurgent casualties, and if you double the number of coalition casualties that the media reports then that is probably the more accurate death toll / injury toll.... isn't war lovely?

To do the job right the United States should send about 30.000 troups. This will reduce the friendy fire and the innocent lives lost. Commanders will not be as worried about their troops and the troops will not be as worried about unfriendly fire.

They are going in with a minimum amount of troops which is wrong. They should go in full force. That way they will go in with confidence and do their job instead of worring about their back which will cause more innocent people to die because of the stress of battle.

Could the much daunted WMD's are located in Fallujah? Would that be enough to bring in 10,000 troops to make sure no matter what resistance is met, it is taken care of and the city is secured. I cannot see this bieng over just insurgents.