You don't have Free Will.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
My point was:

Free will is complicated.

I agree. I attempt to merge psychology with statistics (Hopefully I'll make a thread about my findings soon) and so far free will is the most important variable which prevents me from getting definitive equations. In other words, it's almost as if there is always a random aspect to the equations... and that part will never be fully understood, because this Free Will has no underlying immediate logic - it's almost as complex than the hardest problem in physics like the origin of the Universe or Rotational Curve anomaly. That may be because in some profound way, Man's mind shares this complexity with the macrocosmos...

I think we have free will to choose to be good or evil, the result of our life is the result of our choice.

This video explains why there is no freewill for the individual.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by applesthateatpeople

 

I didn't bother commenting on that, because I couldn't care less if you were impressed or not.

Good poìnt.

Just as I could care less if you believe free will isn't what we think it is, and it was a mistake on my part to get involved.

The study is crap and the fact that it is crap will prove itself.

"Free will isn't what you think it is."

People will believe anything.

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
The study is crap and the fact that it is crap will prove itself.

No, you prove it.

reply to post by TheBandit795

If you look only at the title of my thread, then you can say I flat out denied that we have free will.

Point taken. However, you seem to be implying that the drawbacks to our free will all but negate it. One step forward and two steps back, as it were.

I guess it is impossible to know if free-will actually exists.

Just because "will" exists (desires, wants) that doesn't mean that it is "free" (chosen).

Maybe all of my "will/desire" was put in my from some source. Maybe my "will/desire" is just the result of my life experience.

I don't remember "choosing" my wild/desire. The desire just comes.

"I want to eat ice-cream"

"I want to eat a donuts"

there was no choice in having that specific desire/will.

Now, whether or not I have choice to "ACT" on it, that can also be confusing.

Sometimes, desire/will can be so strong that it overtakes your entire body and you can't stop yourself
(luckily, this doesn't have to me and I can remain CALM).

I guess we can't know for sure, but regardless, life continues to happen, and even if there is "no free-will", hopefully our destiny will be that we all have a feeling of Freedom anyway. A feeling of Freedom with Unity, and Happiness in the future...

Originally posted by Unity_99
This thread keeps popping up. All I can say to it, after thinking and rethinking the ideas in it, is YES WE DO, we not only have free will, but sovereign infinite rights.

Thoughtscape. So think powerfully free and equal with overhwelming love for everyone and see the mismanangers giving up, joining with us, and ever so repenting for their tyranny.

We are through Freewill potencially able to place ourselves on deathrow. Cannot blame it on ineffective lawyerism, you opted for the raffle within the District Attorneys Office, the other being the mail out Jury PowerBall voir dire winners. I cannot think of another better example of Freewill exercised than that exhibited by/of the taking anothers human life. Oh theres that other thing, the one that looses its life probably would not have freely willed that event (its life ending unexpectedly). Maybe Soveriegn infinite rights belong to others afterall, the Judge and Jury.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Not to butt in...

...but definitely somebodys' FREE WILL to accuse you...this type of twisted legal situation is rare...

...is it FREE WILL if you can't afford a lawyer?...refer to pre-incarnation wish-list...

Å99

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

...is it FREE WILL if you can't afford a lawyer?...refer to pre-incarnation wish-list...

Å99

Are you saying that before birth one chooses to not be able to afford a good lawyer?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

...is it FREE WILL if you can't afford a lawyer?...refer to pre-incarnation wish-list...

Å99

Are you saying that before birth one chooses to not be able to afford a good lawyer?

...consequence of other choices...same as in this 'zone'...

Å99

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

...is it FREE WILL if you can't afford a lawyer?...refer to pre-incarnation wish-list...

Å99

Are you saying that before birth one chooses to not be able to afford a good lawyer?

...consequence of other choices...same as in this 'zone'...

Å99

I am not sure if that is a yes or a no.
Do you believe that choices are made before birth? Do you think someone would choose to not afford a good lawyer prior to birth?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

...is it FREE WILL if you can't afford a lawyer?...refer to pre-incarnation wish-list...

Å99

Are you saying that before birth one chooses to not be able to afford a good lawyer?

...consequence of other choices...same as in this 'zone'...

Å99

I am not sure if that is a yes or a no.
Do you believe that choices are made before birth? Do you think someone would choose to not afford a good lawyer prior to birth?

I am sure you do understand what I am saying.
Most general/choices of import are made before birth...(thier consequences in this zone are tempered by additional parameters)...

I think one neglects/forgets to provide for all consequences...same as in this 'zone'...specifically, this can 'play out' as not being able to afford a lawyer at a certain juncture...

Å99

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

...is it FREE WILL if you can't afford a lawyer?...refer to pre-incarnation wish-list...

Å99

Are you saying that before birth one chooses to not be able to afford a good lawyer?

...consequence of other choices...same as in this 'zone'...

Å99

I am not sure if that is a yes or a no.
Do you believe that choices are made before birth? Do you think someone would choose to not afford a good lawyer prior to birth?

I am sure you do understand what I am saying.
Most general/choices of import are made before birth...(thier consequences in this zone are tempered by additional parameters)...

I think one neglects/forgets to provide for all consequences...same as in this 'zone'...specifically, this can 'play out' as not being able to afford a lawyer at a certain juncture...

Å99

No - I am sure I do not understand if it is a yes or a no? Will you provide a yes or a no?
If you believe choices are made before birth then what choice have you got now.
If you chose it all before birth there is no choice now. If what happens now is consequence of previous choices - where is the freewill now?

I am not sure why you assume I understand because I do not follow what you are saying - maybe you could be a little clearer and clear this up for me.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

...is it FREE WILL if you can't afford a lawyer?...refer to pre-incarnation wish-list...

Å99

Are you saying that before birth one chooses to not be able to afford a good lawyer?

...consequence of other choices...same as in this 'zone'...

Å99

I am not sure if that is a yes or a no.
Do you believe that choices are made before birth? Do you think someone would choose to not afford a good lawyer prior to birth?

I am sure you do understand what I am saying.
Most general/choices of import are made before birth...(thier consequences in this zone are tempered by additional parameters)...

I think one neglects/forgets to provide for all consequences...same as in this 'zone'...specifically, this can 'play out' as not being able to afford a lawyer at a certain juncture...

Å99

No - I am sure I do not understand if it is a yes or a no? Will you provide a yes or a no?
If you believe choices are made before birth then what choice have you got now.
If you chose it all before birth there is no choice now. If what happens now is consequence of previous choices - where is the freewill now?

I am not sure why you assume I understand because I do not follow what you are saying - maybe you could be a little clearer and clear this up for me.

edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

To that specific question (which is a ridiculous question amongst all the questions that could be asked in relation to choice before carnality)...I have given you the answer...

I repeat...
"Most general/choices of import are made before birth...(thier consequences in this zone are tempered by additional parameters)"...which includes the ways in which these additional parameters can divert an originally concieved course...the diversion can, and does, waylay the originally concieved course in ways that are so diversionary as to make you forget what it was, and in which direction you originally wanted to travel...

The question you are asking me is like asking whether I planned to not tie a shoelace, and therefore wanted to trip...a ridiculous and spurious suggestion...

"If you believe choices are made before birth then what choice have you got now." Quote Itisnowagain

You can read, can't you? Reread what I have written...I'm not here to perform lessons in comprehension.

If you chose it all before birth there is no choice now. If what happens now is consequence of previous choices - where is the freewill now? Quote Itisnowagain

Where exactly did I say one chooses it ALL before birth? The origami performed due to this one statement (which I did not make) is null and void...This is your paperfolded baby! Not mine...

You're gonna have to do better than that Itisnowagain...

Å99

Amusing to me that the spiritual/religious types refute any idea of lack of free will whatsoever. You will never be able to convince these people otherwise. But the facts remain: humans don't even understand their own behavior or why they are driven to do the things they do.

Why are you driven to find 'love'? Why are you driven to find sex? Why do you wear cloths? Why do you attempt to socially integrate yourself with other people? Why do you do 'dumb' things when you're young? Why do you seek 'pleasure' and to 'feel good' in your lives? Why do women with sever postpartum depression sometimes kill or hurt their children? Can a bad dream you don't even remember alter your behavior and change your decision-making process for the day?

It sure can.

I can give you hundreds of objective examples of how you are not as in control of your behavior as you think you are, but until you understand your own behavior or why you do things you do, you'll keep on with your fantasy that you have absolute control of your life. Because to realize and come to the understanding that you don't have the control you think you do means you are not in control and that's where the fear comes in. Mark my words, eventually we will have more and more scientific proof to the contrary of the whole 'free will' bs, and when we do, human beings will have to open a can of worms and realize a very difficult perspective shift is in order, and it's a guarentee that the spiritual and religious among us will balk hard at that. Most of these people willingly embrace fantasy because the brutal reality of our world and our true condition is too horrifying for them to deal with.

Originally posted by jheherrin
Amusing to me that the spiritual/religious types refute any idea of lack of free will whatsoever. You will never be able to convince these people otherwise. But the facts remain: humans don't even understand their own behavior or why they are driven to do the things they do.

Why are you driven to find 'love'? Why are you driven to find sex? Why do you wear cloths? Why do you attempt to socially integrate yourself with other people? Why do you do 'dumb' things when you're young? Why do you seek 'pleasure' and to 'feel good' in your lives? Why do women with sever postpartum depression sometimes kill or hurt their children? Can a bad dream you don't even remember alter your behavior and change your decision-making process for the day?

It sure can.

I can give you hundreds of objective examples of how you are not as in control of your behavior as you think you are, but until you understand your own behavior or why you do things you do, you'll keep on with your fantasy that you have absolute control of your life. Because to realize and come to the understanding that you don't have the control you think you do means you are not in control and that's where the fear comes in. Mark my words, eventually we will have more and more scientific proof to the contrary of the whole 'free will' bs, and when we do, human beings will have to open a can of worms and realize a very difficult perspective shift is in order, and it's a guarentee that the spiritual and religious among us will balk hard at that. Most of these people willingly embrace fantasy because the brutal reality of our world and our true condition is too horrifying for them to deal with.

edit on 18-5-2013 by jheherrin because: (no reason given)

Scientific proof of FREE WILL?!...are you trying to be the new ATS comic?

You can keep your personal horror movie...if that's what you're into...

Å99

Originally posted by akushla99
To that specific question (which is a ridiculous question amongst all the questions that could be asked in relation to choice before carnality)...I have given you the answer...

If you feel the question was ridiculous why did you butt in?
If you thought the question was ridiculous then you would also know that any answer would be ridiculous because how can a ridiculous question get a sensible, honest answer.

If you hear a joke and don't get it - do you choose not to laugh? Do you choose to be confused when not getting the joke? When getting the joke - do you choose laughter? Or does laughter just happen?

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by jheherrin
Amusing to me that the spiritual/religious types refute any idea of lack of free will whatsoever. You will never be able to convince these people otherwise. But the facts remain: humans don't even understand their own behavior or why they are driven to do the things they do.

Why are you driven to find 'love'? Why are you driven to find sex? Why do you wear cloths? Why do you attempt to socially integrate yourself with other people? Why do you do 'dumb' things when you're young? Why do you seek 'pleasure' and to 'feel good' in your lives? Why do women with sever postpartum depression sometimes kill or hurt their children? Can a bad dream you don't even remember alter your behavior and change your decision-making process for the day?

It sure can.

I can give you hundreds of objective examples of how you are not as in control of your behavior as you think you are, but until you understand your own behavior or why you do things you do, you'll keep on with your fantasy that you have absolute control of your life. Because to realize and come to the understanding that you don't have the control you think you do means you are not in control and that's where the fear comes in. Mark my words, eventually we will have more and more scientific proof to the contrary of the whole 'free will' bs, and when we do, human beings will have to open a can of worms and realize a very difficult perspective shift is in order, and it's a guarentee that the spiritual and religious among us will balk hard at that. Most of these people willingly embrace fantasy because the brutal reality of our world and our true condition is too horrifying for them to deal with.

edit on 18-5-2013 by jheherrin because: (no reason given)

Scientific proof of FREE WILL?!...are you trying to be the new ATS comic?

You can keep your personal horror movie...if that's what you're into...

Å99

Freewill has not been proven - maybe you can find some scientific proof online and copy and paste it or post a link, I for one would be very interested in reading about how freewill has been proved..
On wiki (concerning 'freewill') it says:
This important issue has been widely debated throughout history, including not only whether free will exists but even how to define the concept.