You don't have Free Will.

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posted on May, 18 2013 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by akushla99
The question you are asking me is like asking whether I planned to not tie a shoelace, and therefore wanted to trip...a ridiculous and spurious suggestion...


Can you choose to notice that the shoe lace is undone - prior to tripping?
Noticing and tying the shoe lace happens or tripping happens - who can choose which will happen?
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99
To that specific question (which is a ridiculous question amongst all the questions that could be asked in relation to choice before carnality)...I have given you the answer...

If you feel the question was ridiculous why did you butt in?
If you thought the question was ridiculous then you would also know that any answer would be ridiculous because how can a ridiculous question get a sensible, honest answer.

If you hear a joke and don't get it - do you choose not to laugh? Do you choose to be confused when not getting the joke? When getting the joke - do you choose laughter? Or does laughter just happen?
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Itisnowagain...you wanna practice paperfolding on someone else honey...you're an amateur...the questions you are now asking me bear no relation to the 'butt-in' question...THE SPECIFIC QUESTION YOU ASKED ME WAS RIDICULOUS...you can read, cant you?

Are you really hearing the joke?
Is it really a joke...if you are not sure you are really hearing it?
Is anybody else really getting the joke, if you are not sure you are not hearing it?
Does a joke really exist?
Is the laughter, because of the joke?

There was a time that I could spin this crap all day long...then I grew up...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by jheherrin
Amusing to me that the spiritual/religious types refute any idea of lack of free will whatsoever. You will never be able to convince these people otherwise. But the facts remain: humans don't even understand their own behavior or why they are driven to do the things they do.

Why are you driven to find 'love'? Why are you driven to find sex? Why do you wear cloths? Why do you attempt to socially integrate yourself with other people? Why do you do 'dumb' things when you're young? Why do you seek 'pleasure' and to 'feel good' in your lives? Why do women with sever postpartum depression sometimes kill or hurt their children? Can a bad dream you don't even remember alter your behavior and change your decision-making process for the day?

It sure can.

I can give you hundreds of objective examples of how you are not as in control of your behavior as you think you are, but until you understand your own behavior or why you do things you do, you'll keep on with your fantasy that you have absolute control of your life. Because to realize and come to the understanding that you don't have the control you think you do means you are not in control and that's where the fear comes in. Mark my words, eventually we will have more and more scientific proof to the contrary of the whole 'free will' bs, and when we do, human beings will have to open a can of worms and realize a very difficult perspective shift is in order, and it's a guarentee that the spiritual and religious among us will balk hard at that. Most of these people willingly embrace fantasy because the brutal reality of our world and our true condition is too horrifying for them to deal with.
edit on 18-5-2013 by jheherrin because: (no reason given)


Scientific proof of FREE WILL?!...are you trying to be the new ATS comic?

You can keep your personal horror movie...if that's what you're into...

Å99

Freewill has not been proven - maybe you can find some scientific proof online and copy and paste it or post a link, I for one would be very interested in reading about how freewill has been proved..
On wiki (concerning 'freewill') it says:
This important issue has been widely debated throughout history, including not only whether free will exists but even how to define the concept.
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Do you mean...mmm...do what you want me to do...or, read a wiki# page that 'tells' me what I should be believing?

You are proving it, by responding to me...I dont need a wikiguru to tell me that...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99
The question you are asking me is like asking whether I planned to not tie a shoelace, and therefore wanted to trip...a ridiculous and spurious suggestion...


Can you choose to notice that the shoe lace is undone - prior to tripping?
Noticing and tying the shoe lace happens or tripping happens - who can choose which will happen?
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


This is the same origami rubbish...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:40 AM
link   
Free will is a mysterious and as yet largely
unexplored and unmapped relationship
between the subconscious and conscious mind.

Volutional component of the layered aspects of human being.



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by jheherrin
Amusing to me that the spiritual/religious types refute any idea of lack of free will whatsoever. You will never be able to convince these people otherwise. But the facts remain: humans don't even understand their own behavior or why they are driven to do the things they do.

Why are you driven to find 'love'? Why are you driven to find sex? Why do you wear cloths? Why do you attempt to socially integrate yourself with other people? Why do you do 'dumb' things when you're young? Why do you seek 'pleasure' and to 'feel good' in your lives? Why do women with sever postpartum depression sometimes kill or hurt their children? Can a bad dream you don't even remember alter your behavior and change your decision-making process for the day?

It sure can.

I can give you hundreds of objective examples of how you are not as in control of your behavior as you think you are, but until you understand your own behavior or why you do things you do, you'll keep on with your fantasy that you have absolute control of your life. Because to realize and come to the understanding that you don't have the control you think you do means you are not in control and that's where the fear comes in. Mark my words, eventually we will have more and more scientific proof to the contrary of the whole 'free will' bs, and when we do, human beings will have to open a can of worms and realize a very difficult perspective shift is in order, and it's a guarentee that the spiritual and religious among us will balk hard at that. Most of these people willingly embrace fantasy because the brutal reality of our world and our true condition is too horrifying for them to deal with.
edit on 18-5-2013 by jheherrin because: (no reason given)


Scientific proof of FREE WILL?!...are you trying to be the new ATS comic?

You can keep your personal horror movie...if that's what you're into...

Å99

Freewill has not been proven - maybe you can find some scientific proof online and copy and paste it or post a link, I for one would be very interested in reading about how freewill has been proved..
On wiki (concerning 'freewill') it says:
This important issue has been widely debated throughout history, including not only whether free will exists but even how to define the concept.
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Do you mean...mmm...do what you want me to do...or, read a wiki# page that 'tells' me what I should be believing?

You are proving it, by responding to me...I dont need a wikiguru to tell me that...

Å99

Can you find any back up to your belief in freewill or is it just a belief?
Perhaps you should research 'freewill' (not just on wiki - there is the entire www) so you can be sure it is not just a erroneous belief.
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by akushla99
Are you really hearing the joke?
Is it really a joke...if you are not sure you are really hearing it?
Is anybody else really getting the joke, if you are not sure you are not hearing it?
Does a joke really exist?
Is the laughter, because of the joke?

There was a time that I could spin this crap all day long...then I grew up...

Å99

Yes - that is crap.
It makes me think that you do not understand the questions. Or are avoiding them. They are genuine questions not a riddle. I don't even want an answer - I want you to ask yourself and look for the honest answer.

If you hear a joke and don't get it - do you choose not to laugh? Do you choose to be confused when not getting the joke? When getting the joke - do you choose laughter? Or does laughter just happen?
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99
Are you really hearing the joke?
Is it really a joke...if you are not sure you are really hearing it?
Is anybody else really getting the joke, if you are not sure you are not hearing it?
Does a joke really exist?
Is the laughter, because of the joke?

There was a time that I could spin this crap all day long...then I grew up...

Å99

Yes - that is crap.
It makes me think that you do not understand the questions. Or are avoiding them. They are genuine questions not a riddle. I don't even want an answer - I want you to ask yourself and look for the honest answer.

If you hear a joke and don't get it - do you choose not to laugh? Do you choose to be confused when not getting the joke? When getting the joke - do you choose laughter? Or does laughter just happen?
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


...errr yes it is crap...and You can think whatever you want...the avoiding is just occuring...oh, I know they are no riddle...because they are rubbish...you wont get an answer...

Force me to ask myself, oh guru...and then I will believe I have no free will...


Like I said...you will need to do better...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by jheherrin
Amusing to me that the spiritual/religious types refute any idea of lack of free will whatsoever. You will never be able to convince these people otherwise. But the facts remain: humans don't even understand their own behavior or why they are driven to do the things they do.

Why are you driven to find 'love'? Why are you driven to find sex? Why do you wear cloths? Why do you attempt to socially integrate yourself with other people? Why do you do 'dumb' things when you're young? Why do you seek 'pleasure' and to 'feel good' in your lives? Why do women with sever postpartum depression sometimes kill or hurt their children? Can a bad dream you don't even remember alter your behavior and change your decision-making process for the day?

It sure can.

I can give you hundreds of objective examples of how you are not as in control of your behavior as you think you are, but until you understand your own behavior or why you do things you do, you'll keep on with your fantasy that you have absolute control of your life. Because to realize and come to the understanding that you don't have the control you think you do means you are not in control and that's where the fear comes in. Mark my words, eventually we will have more and more scientific proof to the contrary of the whole 'free will' bs, and when we do, human beings will have to open a can of worms and realize a very difficult perspective shift is in order, and it's a guarentee that the spiritual and religious among us will balk hard at that. Most of these people willingly embrace fantasy because the brutal reality of our world and our true condition is too horrifying for them to deal with.
edit on 18-5-2013 by jheherrin because: (no reason given)


Scientific proof of FREE WILL?!...are you trying to be the new ATS comic?

You can keep your personal horror movie...if that's what you're into...

Å99

Freewill has not been proven - maybe you can find some scientific proof online and copy and paste it or post a link, I for one would be very interested in reading about how freewill has been proved..
On wiki (concerning 'freewill') it says:
This important issue has been widely debated throughout history, including not only whether free will exists but even how to define the concept.
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Do you mean...mmm...do what you want me to do...or, read a wiki# page that 'tells' me what I should be believing?

You are proving it, by responding to me...I dont need a wikiguru to tell me that...

Å99

Can you find any back up to your belief in freewill or is it just a belief?
Perhaps you should research 'freewill' (not just on wiki - there is the entire www) so you can be sure it is not just a erroneous belief.
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


I don't need 'back-up'...and I dont need the belief...because it aint one...and I dont need research to back it up...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


And the laughter is just happening.
There is nothing better.
edit on 18-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99
 


And the laughter is just happening.


Correct...the laughter I am laughing at you is just happening...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by akushla99
 


free will can be proven by holding your breath.
soon you will not be able to do it and will have to breathe.



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by akushla99
 


free will can be proven by holding your breath.
soon you will not be able to do it and will have to breathe.


Succinct, and to the point!

Notice the order in which this statement of yours occurs...(as explanation/proof, or, as experienced)...

Non free-willers, will (pardon the unfortunate pun) want to point out, that the last part of this exercise, amounts to nothing more than a reflexive action...this is splitting the total reason for gasping a new breath, without knowing the reason why...certainly, individuals who succumb to following through with NOT doing this, are doing it against a reflexive action (by thier own definition)...how could this be done, if not by free will?!

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by slugger9787
Free will is a mysterious and as yet largely
unexplored and unmapped relationship
between the subconscious and conscious mind.

Volutional component of the layered aspects of human being.


I like this alot...but it would be remiss to discount the layered aspects of the component of spirituality in this process...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by slugger9787
Free will is a mysterious and as yet largely
unexplored and unmapped relationship
between the subconscious and conscious mind.
Volutional component of the layered aspects of human being.


Its actionable and has consequences of the direction it takes. Whether is mapped or not; is mute. Freewill is viable/visable outside of the conscious or subconscious mind because it ACTS OUT its owners INTENT; in so doing owns it and defines/shapes it. What is this called: Creation of a Singular Freewill Action forever imbedded in the fabric of total human conciousness recorded. The more of these actions observed/experienced the more solid Freewill becomes; not a "notion" or an idea anymore.
edit on 18-5-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by slugger9787
Free will is a mysterious and as yet largely
unexplored and unmapped relationship
between the subconscious and conscious mind.
Volutional component of the layered aspects of human being.


Its actionable and has consequences of the direction it takes. Whether is mapped or not; is mute. Freewill is viable/visable outside of the conscious or subconscious mind because it ACTS OUT its owners INTENT; in so doing owns it and defines/shapes it. What is this called: Creation of a Singular Freewill Action forever imbedded in the fabric of total human conciousness recorded. The more of these actions observed/experienced the more solid Freewill becomes; not a "notion" or an idea anymore.
edit on 18-5-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


You beat me to it again, VHB...(on the edit)...

Å99



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Is it freewill if wrongly accused of murder? Is it freewill if you cannot afford a good lawyer?


Not unless you are repaying Karma (and that can be a spagetti bowl). So with that senario, you are rightly correcting a wrong you participated/partook of in a past life; of course you should if smart outsmarted Karma and bought F. Lee Bailey as your legal council (you would have planned for this).
edit on 18-5-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 08:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by akushla99
To that specific question (which is a ridiculous question amongst all the questions that could be asked in relation to choice before carnality)...I have given you the answer...

If you feel the question was ridiculous why did you butt in?
If you thought the question was ridiculous then you would also know that any answer would be ridiculous because how can a ridiculous question get a sensible, honest answer.

If you hear a joke and don't get it - do you choose not to laugh? Do you choose to be confused when not getting the joke? When getting the joke - do you choose laughter? Or does laughter just happen?


Laughter is a causality of resonance or of recognision. Laughter is the aftermath; seeing irony in red herrings usually. Its spontaineous and unexpected, (for me anyway). Never know what will strike the funnybone.



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by jheherrin
I can give you hundreds of objective examples of how you are not as in control of your behavior as you think you are, but until you understand your own behavior or why you do things you do, you'll keep on with your fantasy that you have absolute control of your life. Because to realize and come to the understanding that you don't have the control you think you do means you are not in control and that's where the fear comes in. Mark my words, eventually we will have more and more scientific proof to the contrary of the whole 'free will' bs, and when we do, human beings will have to open a can of worms and realize a very difficult perspective shift is in order, and it's a guarentee that the spiritual and religious among us will balk hard at that. Most of these people willingly embrace fantasy because the brutal reality of our world and our true condition is too horrifying for them to deal with.
.

I can give you hundreds of thousands of reasons you are not in control of your behavior. Its called our LEGAL SYSTEM that manages us and the millions of trials resulting in briefs, adnausium that contribute to law doctrine, its a Monster that keeps redefining itself, preening itself into a perfect form of (WE DECIDE WHAT IS defined FREEWILL for the human). Freewill has no fear constituant. Fear is a shrinking FromForm, not BOLD and decisive, even if it lands one on deathrow. There will never be a scientific proving of the nature of an ideaform put to action, better study would be the exsistance of spirit/soul residing in the heart of the human body. The perspective shift you are speaking of is in process of change, the paradym is slipping, and I suppose the fallback to fantacy existance, "Name your Video Game" validates the last sentence of your statement, oddly ever more violent than the peaceful vanilla soaked suburbs they dwell in.
edit on 18-5-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2013 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by slugger9787
Free will is a mysterious and as yet largely
unexplored and unmapped relationship
between the subconscious and conscious mind.
Volutional component of the layered aspects of human being.


Its actionable and has consequences of the direction it takes. Whether is mapped or not; is mute. Freewill is viable/visable outside of the conscious or subconscious mind because it ACTS OUT its owners INTENT; in so doing owns it and defines/shapes it. What is this called: Creation of a Singular Freewill Action forever imbedded in the fabric of total human conciousness recorded. The more of these actions observed/experienced the more solid Freewill becomes; not a "notion" or an idea anymore.


You beat me to it again, VHB...(on the edit)...


Kdont let that kstop you, as you always feather the original idea beautifully.





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