If your city is on "lock-down", do NOT look outside.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by BellaSabre
Some people must have to experience something directly before it effects them.

Do me a favor. Humor me.

Imagine for two minutes that you have no feet.

Now go to the frig to get a drink. OH WAIT! You can't.

Now go to the bathroom and pee. OH WAIT! You can't.

Got to go to work tomorrow. OH WAIT! You can't.

Pissed off yet?

I would be.

Do you know that people with no feet do all of those things?
They really do.
Some actually jog. You really need to read up on wheelchair accessibility and prosthetic limbs.

Now, you could have written 'Clip your toenails' and you would have been correct with that one.

Oh yeah. Let's all pretend for a moment that losing your limbs is no biggie. A prosthetic is JUST LIKE having real legs and feet. Alrighty then............. fake legs, real legs; makes no difference to you. To me it does. To some people it does.

Ever seen the problems caused where the prosthetic joins the remaining part of the limb? The infections, blisters, lesions, soreness, and time lost to healing until you wear them again?

Have I? Indeed I have.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

And to a large extent it was deserved there. The streets were flooded with sea water, homes destroyed, shops destroyed, looters were everywhere and anywhere, total pandamonium. Still FEMA was criticised for doing too little and for being a bit late.

I dont necessarily agree, but that is really neither here nor there. I have a hard time accepting martial law at all, under just about any circumstance.

But please tell me do you have a problem with DHS getting involved in boston with relative minor damage and only a few suspects to apprehend? Even if they didn't have the best intelligence, given that russia had warned them about those two chechens, how could they have been so over-the-top is impossible to accept. BPD and Massachusets State Police could have handled it just as well imo without those armored personel carriers and SWAT units.

My answer can be summed up in a single word: ABSOLUTELY.

It is all about the threat level that determines the response necessary. Boston was not northern ireland or palestine.

Yes and no. There were also political and psychological aspects to this. Think about how much this administration was shredded for not calling Benghazi 'terrorism' fast enough, and for not having a swift enough response.

On top of that, while I dont agree with it, or that it is effective, the show of force was also to be a deterrent to other would-be bombers. To show them what they would face.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by DoubleDNH
Nothing which occurred in Watertown resembles martial law.

I would say that this here resembles martial law to a great degree. People told to stay inside and if not then well…let’s see your papers. For good measure its even military police.

Originally posted by DoubleDNH
The police and other government agencies REQUESTED people stay home and remain in their homes... they REQUESTED businesses stay closed and everyone for the most part agreed and did what they asked.

For those bold enough to flaunt their freedom and move about - well they promptly were reminded that they are not quite that free after all.

Does this man resemble a 19 year old Dzokar? Not in my opinion.

I know they were probably in the end not arrested (in the traditional sense) but I'd say being put face down at gun point and searched while your name was checked against the "lists" is close enough to it to leave an indelible impression on these two guys (who also do not resemble the suspect) that the "request" was backed by the threat of force and next time they will toe the line like good sheep.

The cuffs are a nice touch - I am sure they "requested" he put them on too, you know for his own good.

As they say a rose by any other name will still smell as sweet - Martial Law, Shelter in Place... potAtoes, pOtatoes.

We can agree to disagree. Listening to the scanners that day and having spoken with friends who live in the area, I feel comfortable that they took every precaution that was necessary. There were a few incidents where people saw the cops and fled into buildings, which under the circumstances would seem suspicious. I've been in the Philippines when Martial law was declared and this was nothing like that.. people disappearing while walking the streets, never to be seen again, people arrested and held without reason for breaking curfew, etc... I see no evidence of anything like this happening..

reply to post by Golf66


I applaud your last post on the previous page, byt fear it is too late for these ATSers to see facts on any of this.

I have already decided my work here is as done as I am capable of doing it, I spent over 5 hours trying to talk sense into them.

They will not hear it, their minds are made up, they can't wait for this to be the norm, as they see nothing wrong with any of this.

I once again applaud you for your efforts, but fear it is simply energy better spent on a more worthwhile activity.

Much respect

IV

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Golf66

 

They will not hear it, their minds are made up, they can't wait for this to be the norm, as they see nothing wrong with any of this.


IV

This is where you lose any credibility in an argument. No one WANTS this to be the norm and I have seen nothing in this thread where anyone has stated that.

reply to post by Golf66


Wow. Its pretty amazing. Thanks for the pics! I initially thought it wasn't that bad.

reply to post by DoubleDNH


Dude are you kidding? You see the pictures and still don't believe?

Phillipines was a warzone under a dictator. WTH does that have to do with two chechens in boston?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Well i apologize for calling you a whiner but I have been talking with you for two days now and you keep lumping me in whith those claiming martial when i never said that. I have said from the beginning that the whole thing could have been avoided if the fbi just did thier dam job.

But the fbi would have me believe that they never told the boston office about tamerlan and even though there was a major event going on they failed to check out previous persons of interest.

And violation of thier rights blah blah blah, its not against thier rights to follow them to a public event.

The whole entire event was avoidable. Peacefully

Now you have said you don't like this so do you have any suggestions to see that it never happens again?

Why do you treat me adversarialy I have not poked or prodded you. I am here to try to improve the situation not be involved in a debate weather it was martial law or just looked like it.I am not one who only wants to fight in fact I would rather avoid that so i can watch my children grow up.

reply to post by DoubleDNH


If no one wants to see this happen, why are they so eager to approve of it?

I think you take yourself in too high a reguard by thinking your the one to decide my credibility level.

I have read every single post of this thread, I have participated in much of it, I have personally, and seen many others speak from real world experience and training, and still some will deny the facts of what has been stated.

This is a lost cause, there is nothing more to be gained here, their minds are quite firmly made up, they agree with what accured being appropriate.


If anyone has lost credibility, it is thesecheerleaders of tyrany.

Good day sir, I wipe my hands of this madness.

reply to post by ivbnu

Well i apologize for calling you a whiner but I have been talking with you for two days now and you keep lumping me in whith those claiming martial when i never said that. I have said from the beginning that the whole thing could have been avoided if the fbi just did thier dam job.

Fair enough, if that is true, you have my apologies. I have been relentlessly bombarded in this thread, mostly by people saying nearly the exact same things. If you were not one of them, I apologize.

But the fbi would have me believe that they never told the boston office about tamerlan and even though there was a major event going on they failed to check out previous persons of interes

We certainly agree, as I have said, that there was a big failure on the part of the FBI.

And violation of thier rights blah blah blah, its not against thier rights to follow them to a public event.

True. Very true. I still contend, though, that they, at this point, were convinced that they were not dangerous (big failure) and thus, had stopped surveling them enough to know that they SHOULD be followed (another failure).

The whole entire event was avoidable. Peacefully

Had things gone entirely different, I agree. There were simply too many variables at play. Ive said it before, part of the risk of a free country is sometimes people like this can slip through the cracks. Its a failure on the part of those in charge when they do, but it is a fact of the world that we live in that they do.

Now you have said you don't like this so do you have any suggestions to see that it never happens again?

Again, I think it is too late for that. I think that day passed about 15 years ago. Looking back at least that far, the sequence of events and the rising of unrest leads me to believe that there simply is nowhere to go at this point.

The one thing I will say, is that if an event like this happens, I would far rather see a small squad of specialized tactical officers sent to track and find the suspect than something like this. Though I am sure many would have an issue with that, as well.

Again, though, this response was as much about politics and putting on a show as it was about finding him.

Why do you treat me adversarialy I have not poked or prodded you. I am here to try to improve the situation not be involved in a debate weather it was martial law or just looked like it.I am not one who only wants to fight in fact I would rather avoid that so i can watch my children grow up.

Fair enough. Like I said, Ive been pretty relentlessly attacked in this thread. Im having a heck of a time keeping the posts straight. I do not really consider anyone here my adversary, nor do I think I have treated anyone as such. If I seem a little defensive, well, one can only be called a 'troll', a 'shill', a 'boot-licker' , or be accused of defending things that I have done no such thing, etc, so many times until the shields come up.

On top of that, the sheer amount of people in this thread advocating violence and an all out 'us vs. them' war in this thread turns my stomach. That so many people cannot see that they feel that way by design really, really bothers me.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


The reason there is little outcry is because the pictures posted by Golf66 have not been widely circulated imo.

If they had it would probably be different. If the media works for the wrong boss, as they do, then its pointless.

Hopefully alternative media becomes more popular. It is our last hope I am afraid.

Don't give up the good fight for a few bad apples.

“The odd thing about Watertown on Friday is it really reminded me of the Middle East,” he said of the police presence and gunfire he witnessed.

From the time of the bombing until a week ago today, Watertown was “basically normal,” Keepper said. But that changed early Friday morning when he and his family woke to the sound of a helicopter over their house.
...
He described the scene in his neighborhood after Tsarnaev was captured as nearly festive.

“Watertown erupted into a lot of applause and people filed out of their houses and thanked the police for what they’d done,” Keepper said.

Eyewitness Report

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Any movement under these circumstances is going to attract the powerful end of a weapon. It's common sense. They were looking for an allegedly armed and allegedly dangerous man. Don't give them any reason to think you might be him.

Fixed.

So you inserted the words "alledgedly" into BH's post? Not sure if you follow the news, but at this stage of the manhunt the suspect WAS in that neighborhood and HAD ALREADY KILLED several people, inured a couple hundred, and hours before this picture had a gunbattle in that neighborhood with police that left dozens of cops injured AFTER killing one cop in an ambush the night before...AND used several Improvised Explosive Devices while they sped through the neighborhood ...at that stage there was no "alledgedly" about it. Just sayin...

Originally posted by butcherguy
Why you must have photoshopped all that, right? Our govt would never do that.....

My photoshop skills are right up there at the crayola level. Perhaps somewhere between my Spanish and my spelling...

I think I can circle things in MS paint though as long as I can use the circle maker thingy. It’s a technological wonder from what I understand.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Any movement under these circumstances is going to attract the powerful end of a weapon. It's common sense. They were looking for an allegedly armed and allegedly dangerous man. Don't give them any reason to think you might be him.

Fixed.

So you inserted the words "alledgedly" into BH's post? Not sure if you follow the news, but at this stage of the manhunt the suspect WAS in that neighborhood and HAD ALREADY KILLED several people, inured a couple hundred, and hours before this picture had a gunbattle in that neighborhood with police that left dozens of cops injured AFTER killing one cop in an ambush the night before...AND used several Improvised Explosive Devices while they sped through the neighborhood ...at that stage there was no "alledgedly" about it. Just sayin...

I don't want to be rude but WHERE are these "a couple hundred injured", "dozens of cops injured", "several improvised explosive devices", etc??? Can you provide pictures to validate your claims just like Golf66 has done to show the MP cuffing people? Have these people spoken out and shown their injuries?

I am not saying you are wrong because you could be correct. To be honest I stopped watching the lamestream media after all their sensational hogwash for years now and relly almost exclusively on alternative media for REAL NEWS!

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Thankyou for your thoughtful answers and it seem we are in agreement on most things.

So as a father of two kids what advice would you give me. I would prefer a peacefull option but is there one?

I have as of yet not been able to think of a way to maintain my value system and the system we were founded on with out looking back to what worked before. It makes me sick to think about and I HATE violence but if thats what need to be done to protect then I feel obligated to protect them.

A lot of people died so Gandi could have a "peaceful" outcome.

I think people are just really pissed and I think deservedly so, I just bare with them. In person I would not be able to sit through some of this so nothingat all (at least for me) nothing would be accomplished.

Thank you again, and I shall seek someone who sees a brighter future.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Any movement under these circumstances is going to attract the powerful end of a weapon. It's common sense. They were looking for an allegedly armed and allegedly dangerous man. Don't give them any reason to think you might be him.

Fixed.

So you inserted the words "alledgedly" into BH's post? Not sure if you follow the news, but at this stage of the manhunt the suspect WAS in that neighborhood and HAD ALREADY KILLED several people, inured a couple hundred, and hours before this picture had a gunbattle in that neighborhood with police that left dozens of cops injured AFTER killing one cop in an ambush the night before...AND used several Improvised Explosive Devices while they sped through the neighborhood ...at that stage there was no "alledgedly" about it. Just sayin...

Are there any civilian witnesses stating otherwise? Or do we only have the media and the same incompetent police force to corroborate what actually transpired that night?



Kind of looks like our suspect who was allegedly ran over by his younger brother, doesn't it?



"Just sayin'".

reply to post by ivbnu

Thankyou for your thoughtful answers and it seem we are in agreement on most things.

My pleasure. And thank YOU for rising above the infantile level of discourse that seems to dominate so many threads these days.

So as a father of two kids what advice would you give me. I would prefer a peacefull option but is there one?

The same thing I do with my kids. Teach them that love and forgiveness trump all, and that violence only begets violence.

Look, I am not naive. I fully understand that sometimes violence is the only option. But to me, it is then, and only then, that it should be used.

I have as of yet not been able to think of a way to maintain my value system and the system we were founded on with out looking back to what worked before. It makes me sick to think about and I HATE violence but if thats what need to be done to protect then I feel obligated to protect them.

I am a huge fan of the philosophical words of Thomas Jefferson. And we all know how he felt about it. Whats that quote? Every so often the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots....paraphrasing, but you get the point.

My view on it, though, is that to be on the right side of history, we cannot be the aggressors. In my mind, that is a surefire way to lost the battle.

A lot of people died so Gandi could have a "peaceful" outcome.

And I believe that was their folly. I dont believe in all out pacifism. I believe in ones right to protect themselves. But I believe the only justification for doing it violently is if it is a last resort.

I think people are just really pissed and I think deservedly so, I just bare with them. In person I would not be able to sit through some of this so nothingat all (at least for me) nothing would be accomplished.

And I believe they have every right to be pissed. Being angry, and participating in extremism are two different things. Angry is saying "this was over the top! We need make it known that we are not ok with this!"
Extremism is "im going to place claymores above my door, then when they knock, im going to blow it. Then I am going to shoot the next guy i see in the commotion" (again, yes, that actually was said in this thread).

Thank you again, and I shall seek someone who sees a brighter future.

Originally posted by Nicks87

Originally posted by libertytoall
Honestly he could have been aiming his gun in order to use a scope? Maybe he wanted to get a closer look to be sure it wasn't the terrorist hiding out.

Isn't that what binoculars are for?

Perhaps it should be made clear to use binoculars and if they don't have them to get them. My opinion is they don't carry binoculars so this guy had to use his scope.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I dont necessarily agree, but that is really neither here nor there. [color=#ffff7c]I have a hard time accepting martial law at all, under just about any circumstance.

Hence the denial I reckon.

[color=#999481]It is all about the threat level that determines the response necessary. Boston was not northern ireland or palestine.
Yes and no. There were also political and psychological aspects to this. [color=#e6c951]
Think about how much this administration was shredded for not calling Benghazi 'terrorism' fast enough, and for not having a swift enough response.

All of that ‘criticsm’ for Benghazi, eh? o.O
Well, well, wells...Yes’um that ‘criticism’ must of sho’ been unpleasant.
Such a good thing you don't condone that being a reason to institute Martial Law
(sorry), a ‘lockdown’


Hey–speaking of unpleasant, any word on that old guy CBS had been talking about during Friday's craziness?
You know, the one that the police tackled to the ground because he defied the friendly "shelter in place advisory"? But, I suppose the old dude had it coming. After all, if he couldn't “stand up for his rights, what good are they.”
^your words, not mine

You know, the one on Arsenal St., where the police thought that the old man had a dead-man's switch in his hand--> so they pummeled him into a heart-attack and had to have EOD robots come and deal with the guy...
Let us know about that Cap‘n, because the police won't answer any one's questions about it. CBS had been covering it, but it's understandable why the media might've felt that they were "advised" to drop it.

But exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures, right Cap’n?

1:15pm—1:15am shift, again. Bastards.
Do you like this time, or do you prefer the 6pm—2am shift?
…Just wondering.

Because I know that an allegedly cognizant human being
[color=#94b7d1]did not just spend 24 out of the last 54 hours posting on this thread feverishly trying to paint the picture that more than 2.5% of Americans think that [color=#c0283b]Martial Law Trainee Day is an acceptable way of dealing with a blood-thirsty cookery-wielding college student gone AWOL in a Massachusetts suburb.

I mean, I understand that Federal Gov. has no shortage of statist-cheerleaders, but their most fervant online-apologist couldn't hold a [color=#e98914]candle-[color=#e28817]in-[color=#d47c16]the-[color=#b76216]dark to you, my friend.