Introducing "Bibleman"! And a host of other kid-oriented indoctrination tools

reply to post by logical7

You're welcome.
But even nihilists, who DO believe there's just nothing, can be kind, generous, helpful and loving. Simply because it's the right thing to do. With no expectation of posthumous "reward", or fear of "punishment."

You keep trying to say that people only have Morals because of God, and it just isn't so.

reply to post by wildtimes

If a God created that DNA, fine. Cool. I've told you I tend toward Deism.

so you almost acknowledge God? A God who can create an amazing immense information containing DNA using a few nucleic acids cannot recreate you back?
Deism is God talking to humans, the amazing colours you see in nature can be seen and appreciated best by human eyes, why would animals and plants display colours which they can't even perceive unless they are made with a plan to bring in an appreciator later?

reply to post by logical7

Deism is God talking to humans, the amazing colours you see in nature can be seen and appreciated best by human eyes, why would animals and plants display colours which they can't even perceive unless they are made with a plan to bring in an appreciator later?

Animals DO perceive colors - deep in the ocean giant squids communicate using flashes of color rather than language.
It's not hard to look up how the eye works. We know from science that many animals see colors we do NOT perceive as humans - and hear things we can NOT hear. That is a fact.

Flowers have colors that attract certain pollinators like bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, etc.

Plants also exude aromas (so do people, but we aren't able to perceive it - see "pheromones" - not to be confused with plain old B.O. - body odor due to uncleanliness or diet or sweat) to attract pollinators. Animals exude aromas that attract or repel other animals. Think of how a dog knows when a bitch is in heat. They can smell it. Their powers of hearing and smell are FAR superior to humans'.

reply to post by wildtimes

You keep trying to say that people only have Morals because of God, and it just isn't so.

explain altruism and how it came about and why?
Even ants show altruism, do you think they have the intellectual capacity to do it by reasoning?

reply to post by logical7

so you almost acknowledge God? A God who can create an amazing immense information containing DNA using a few nucleic acids cannot recreate you back?

I've told you many times how I acknowledge "God". The creation itself is all the evidence we HAVE, and since we don't know how it got here for sure, I can't say "there is no Creator."

Instead, I think IF THERE IS a "creator force", it very likely just set things in motion and we are only a tiny blip on the bigger plan of evolution and very slow unfolding of whatever this Universe is meant to be.

reply to post by logical7


I suggest you read about it yourself.
The Moral Animal - Why We are the Way We Are: The New Science of Evolutionary Psychology,

and Nonzero: The Evolution of Human Destiny,

and The Evolution of God ,

all by Robert Wright
They are all BRILLIANT and entertaining - and explain it much better and more thoroughly than I can.


From what I can tell and have learned, ants are cooperative and have "societies" - that does not mean they are "altruistic". I doubt they have "free will", but they might. They are each born to perform a certain "duty". We DO have free will, so altruism is a CHOICE for us.

reply to post by wildtimes

Animals DO perceive colors

you missed the point, i know about bees being attracted to near UV spectrum reflected by flowers, pheromones etc.
Let me put it this way, you have perception of 'beauty' and there is a lot of beauty in nature.
Are you saying that you label it as beautiful because you have always seen it that way or you had that sense before even seeing anything at all.
To label anything as beautiful you need a comparison or prior knowledge.

Also an eye is a machine of irreduceable complexity, it cannot work till all its components are working at once. All eyes not just human. It can only exist by being created by a Creator with knowledge of optics.

reply to post by logical7


Okay, we are WAY, WAY off topic here.
I'm interested in discussing this, but perhaps you can start a new thread about it.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Okay, we are WAY, WAY off topic here.
I'm interested in discussing this, but perhaps you can start a new thread about it.

sure

I find it repugnant that you don't have the ability to tolerate other's religious values. Please define how teaching anything to a kid isn't indoctrinating them.

reply to post by LastStarfighter


Are you addressing me, here, Starfighter?

If you are, I don't understand your confusion. If you've read through the thread, you'll see that what I don't "tolerate" is the abuse of children in the name of a God/Jesus that is meant to instill fear of hell, and hatred toward others.

You misunderstand Christianity if thats what you think it is, obviously i respond to you my friend

reply to post by LastStarfighter

I know perfectly well what Jesus's message was.
It was not hatred, destruction of others for their beliefs, or violence against anyone. The kind of "Christianity" that promotes war, exclusivity, hatred, bigotry, and intolerance is the kind I find intolerable. It's not "Christ-like" at all.

EDIT: And make no mistake, there are self-proclaimed "Christians" who DO push those ideals onto their kids, and beat them while they're at it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
Yes, the religion BibleMan is pushing is imaginary. Saying it aint is your opinion of the beleif in God & religion. It"s your beleif, not mine. It's bad enough we cloud their young minds with this shat. When they grow older & wiser and have the ability to think for themselves, then they will make up their own minds....unclouded by BibleMan and the like.

Given the times I'd say about 70 out of 100 would turn toward my way of looking at it......It's a fairey tale. At least the folks who created Star Wars told us UP FRONT that is was all BS. This story even shocked the crowd of Jehovahs Witness's that came by my house today. Allways nice people, dressed really good. They even left me some more of that fire starter they call Watchtower. Unless you did not get it......I detest the ones that profit from Religion.

reply to post by openyourmind1262

When they grow older & wiser and have the ability to think for themselves, then they will make up their own minds....unclouded by BibleMan and the like.

Given the times I'd say about 70 out of 100 would turn toward my way of looking at it......It's a fairey tale.

Let's all hope you are right.
Unfortunately, some kids NEVER outgrow it. That's been proven. Even if they DO outgrow it, they might still carry around residual "guilt" and "shame". It's a very hard thing, for many, to reject early indoctrination and free oneself from it.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

Thanks very much for your moving self-disclosure, ThreeBears!
I am horrified to hear your story, but these stories need to be told!! If you'd like to go into more depth or even just cross-post this into the thread in my signature, it would be very much appreciated.

My effort with that thread was to have one sort of "clearing house" where members can read the stories of other members without having to dig through profiles. It's not a 'discussion' so much as a 'collection'.

Yes, Bibleman is frightening, and after reading everyone's responses to him here, as well as Klassified's excellent thread about Preachers Who are Not Believers, which talks about higher education and authorities in the shadows dictating academia's direction...

I see a huge mess. I know that higher education is now moving AWAY from teaching Liberal Arts and Humanities such as "Western Civilization", "Philosophy", "Cultural Studies" etc. It is those classes, which were REQUIRED of freshmen and sophomores no matter WHAT their "major" was going to be (a student couldn't even declare a major until they were juniors - which makes perfect sense to me) back in the 70s and 80s, that create THINKERS. People who can connect the dots.

Even so, a youth of 18, 19, 20, 21 years old will not take the same meaning from Dialogues of Plato (which was one of my college texts that I kept, and re-read last month) as a more seasoned and mature adult will (speaking in terms of simple life experience and accumulated knowledge). To withdraw the Arts and Humanities from college curricula is tantamount to fascism and is, indeed, going to create generations of naive, ill-educated worker bees rather than THINKERS, and that frightens me VERY MUCH INDEED.

Just to clarify, unlike many, I do not separate Religion- Re Legion, legion as in many and as in Legis, from any other Power trickle down Psyche control, psyche as in soul, mind, etc., which would include psychology, humanities and all the other...simply because they all are created or expanded upon, etc by the same--those in power, particularly the west. The east does this as well but differently...so to me, there really is no separation between religious and secular, other than the means they use to control the masses, slave masses that is. The foundations of humanities are from the same elites that founded Christianity, those taken from the elites who controlled the pantheon beliefs and temples, etc going all the way back...so I trust neither, because as an RA survivor in a family with connection to BOTH government, secular and religion/occult, what is done in one is done n another, they simply use different methodologies for their aims. Why I hate psychiatry and it's mind binding as much as religion...to me they one and the same yet accuse the other or Project, a double sided Mirror YU could say (occult as well).

So which is why they can Soooooo easily shift skins like the snake they are, when one method loses grip on the minds of the dumbfounded the other steps in to take up where the other left off and vice versa. Yes Bibleman is a form of indoctrination,

But so is Every other cartoon figure toy etc out there, media wise etc. Anime is some of the Worst. anytime you use Visuals, images that depict one group over another, you're getting into indoctornation. Dolls are notorious in occult and so, influencing how a child thinks is yes often done through role play, so don't think, because I voice against mind binding that I concur with the other, I do not. I find it interesting that in modern society more and more the emphasis is in Fantasy and Role playing through inanimate objects Rather than face to face Interaction with others in their PEER group, and all that we are really seeing,

Is a WAR FOR YOUNG MINDS but I can tell you, NEITHER the Religious OR the Secular are Good for ANY child, or human being for that fact. rather than target Bibleman or religious, only,

I say, let's get rid of the whole Psyche brainwashing all together and let Children be Children, not pawns in some occult bull# game. Give them bikes to ride and fields to run in and trees to climb and give them back Nature rather than concrete jungles and trash crap media, Period. But oh we can't Do that because either they have the religious nutjobs or the pedoMengele nutjobs on the other end of the pole...with their pharma toxins and poison junk food.

Religion isn't the ONLY DANGER to children these days, hardly...I'd run over a shrink pushing drugs so some PEDO jerk can rape at will just as easily as I would some Fundie pushing bible thumper, to me,

They one and the same. My motto, Deconstuct both, because Anything that came OUT of Rome/Greece/Mesopotamia etc., is not to be trusted.

reply to post by openyourmind1262

Yes, the religion BibleMan is pushing is imaginary. Saying it aint is your opinion of the beleif in God & religion. It"s your beleif, not mine.

Wait. She is NOT saying it isn't imaginary. She said the opposite.

reply to post by wildtimes


You have to go back to the original post to get the context. www.abovetopsecret.com...

openyourmind1262 said that Bibleman is no different from Star Wars action figures and I disagreed. Because Star Wars is imaginary and the religion Bibleman is pushing isn't. He is pushing some form of Christianity that actually exists. The religion is not imaginary.

It's kind of confusing out of context.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


OOooohhhhh!
Okay, thanks. Now I see.

Derp. Brain-tired. Gotta log off now....but, hey everyone, carry on!!
*hears in head the tune 'Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching Off to War!!!...With the Cross of Jesus...'and I've no memory of what comes after that. Thankfully. Dammit. I blame myself for saying "carry on."*

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by wildtimes

 

You have to go back to the original post to get the context. www.abovetopsecret.com...

openyourmind1262 said that Bibleman is no different from Star Wars action figures and I disagreed. Because Star Wars is imaginary and the religion Bibleman is pushing isn't. He is pushing some form of Christianity that actually exists. The religion is not imaginary.

It's kind of confusing out of context.

But... by your way of thinking, Jediism and Christianity are both mere inventions... right? If Jediism and Christianity are both in the same category (invention), that makes both Bibleman and Star Wars figures indoctrination tools for religions. Correct? If so, how are they different?