ATS from a Sceptics Perspective.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Yeah some people are oblivious that they are indeed conspiracy sheep. I don't even follow my OWN agenda.

reply to post by zonetripper2065

"Why on a conspiracy forum?"
Yes, I've often noticed this question. I can suggest an answer which might be worth trying.
"This is not a "conspiracy" forum. It is a "truth discovering and promoting" forum. If a particular conspiracy theory happens to make no sense, then saying so is part of the work of the forum".

PS The "About ATS page, with its references to "critical thought" etc. will back that up.

It's very difficult to be openly sceptic, especially here because so many people have settled into the mindset that TPTB are behind everything, always, and any discussion otherwise means you're a sheep, and unenlighted, or living your life with wool over your eyes. In actual fact, I'm of the opinion that if you can't keep an open mind to all possibilities, and are adamant that everything is a conspiracy, you're still a sheep.

There's being ignorant, "I believe everything the MSM tells me, I trust the Govt, and I don't think they would do something like that," and there's being ignorant, "The Govt are all liars, everything is always a false flag, everything is a conspiracy, what are they hiding now?!"

The true free thinkers are the people who can consider as many options as possible, and make informed (or as informed as we're likely to get) judgements based on what we know, rather than taking one look and declaring everything false.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia

This is "AboveTopSecret"... not "There are No secrets and Everything is rainbows and unicorn farts!" or "Affirmations of the Status Quo, and bad poetry"

Straight back at ya, sunshine.

Clearly you're here to confirm your beliefs, while we're here to challenge them.

You should try it some time, it's very enlightening.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


I genuinely don’t know if you’re posts are a poor attempt at sarcasm or if you’re being serious but either way you made me laugh not only at your poor sense of irony writing those posts but also because you have inadvertently provided an excellent example of what I am saying.

Because you disagree with me according to you:

• I am a paid shill (no I am a voluntary “super-Shill”)
• I automatically believe everything that I am told by the MSN and anyone in authority nothing (could be further from the truth)
• I wine loudly like I child (should that be type like a wining child)
• Sound like a tin foil hat nutter
• Live in my mother’s basement
• I need to get laid (guess what I’ve just done )
• Sound like a basement dwelling loser
• Then you enquire if I have autism (I don’t)
• And how dare I call myself a sceptic because I don’t agree with you.

Quite a lot of personal attacks in a very short and rather unremarkable post everything that you have said is based on these bazar prejudices you have towards me because I don’t think that the NWO are sitting plotting ways to destroy all the members of ATS. Not one thing you have said to me in either of those posts was fair it was just an all-out personal attack because you disagree with me. There was not a single logical or relevant counterargument to any of the claims in my OP, rather you have only made my argument stronger my perfectly demonstrating the type of juvenile behaviour that I was talking about.

I really think it is quite telling that you chose to articulate your disagreement with me with such harsh words rather than an eloquent and meaningful counter argument to my claims.

Quiet Riot

Just a reminder, from the top of each page of every thread in this forum:

[color=#67BC90]Rant: Let loose some steam and get it off your chest! This is the place to rant about anything that does not attack other members, the staff, or ATS itself.

Emphasis mine.

Yes, this is Rant, and rants are very much on-topic and okay here, and the OP very much qualifies. And yes, we do tend to be more relaxed about some of the rules, but...

This is still an ATS forum, and even here, the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use still apply, and even here, direct ad hominem attacks are not appropriate. And, of course, they are never appropriate anywhere else on ATS, either.

If anyone has any questions or concerns about this or just wants to chat, I normally ask members to send me a private message to avoid going off topic, but since this is Rant and the issue is kind of on-topic anyway, we can talk about it here if anyone wants to.

I can say I do very much sympathize with both sides of the "skeptic/believer divide" -- though I really don't think it needs to be that way.

Am I wrong? You decide.




P.S. Labeling members as "shills", whatever one may think, is not recommended for a long and happy membership. Tactics like those are precisely what actual shills would use, which can lead to unfortunate outcomes. Just sayin'

reply to post by DISRAELI


Good answer. My answers are usually smart ass in nature, I just cant help it.

I don't mean this in a malicious way, but sometimes I really do wonder about the sanity of some people on this site. I can't say which ones because I don't know, I don't really pay attention to who is posting, and despite having been here a couple of years now, I don't really have 'friends' here as such, I'm just a bit of a loner, and post here and there.
But sometimes I read posts and I think to myself a couple of things.

Lets say for example, that the Boston marathon was a legit, straight up, hate crime against America, perpetrated by two (or more) extremists. Hundreds of people were injured. Thirteen people had limbs amputated. Three people died. There is such a shocking lack of empathy, of sympathy, of pretty much any 'appropriate' reaction to the fact that many people have just been so viciously hurt.
Like... whats up with that? Is this site frequented by so many psychopaths, that they don't care that so many people have been hurt, that they're willing to deny legitimacy of this attack, that they would call these people actors?

And the other thing, though it's kinda silly, but those kinds of people would be exactly the kinds of people I would avoid at a party. You know the ones, the ones who stand by the drinks and try to entice anyone who will listen into a discussion about governmental subterfuge, and conspiracy theories, and like, for real, who wants to be THAT guy?

People are trying to claim photoshop to a photo of Jeff Bauman holding his race sign, and rather than listen to (imo, sense) an explanation as to why they might be wrong, they'd rather ignore you, or draw you into some kind of argument, because you think differently. And others here are more willing to go along with some of the most absurd crap I've ever heard, than put their thinking caps on, and consider that, hey, wait a minute, thats a fair point, and I might be wrong.
The thing that got me about the whole thing, is that it's just a picture of him with two women. What purpose does this photo serve, other than to show he was supporting a race. Oh he has the same shirt on as in the pictures of him in the wheelchair. Well I've got clothes I wear to work out in that I've had a long time too, it doesn't mean anything. What would be the point in photoshopping a picture that doesn't show anything?

It's totally ok to disagree, it's absolutely fine to think someone else is talking shizzle, but there is a line between discussion, and being tactful and politely disagreeing and agreeing to disagree, and calling someone names because you don't know how to evaluate other opinions other than your own.

NWO controlling the world with the shape shifting reptilians who work with the galactic federation of light

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


There it is again. A nonsense example that exists only in the repertoire of "sceptics" and is not a belief or viewpoint of any actual person on ATS.

reply to post by Morg234

There it is again. A nonsense example that exists only in the repertoire of "sceptics" and is not a belief or viewpoint of any actual person on ATS.

What you call a “nonsense example” I call an attempt at humour, this is not really a nice topic especially if you are one of the sceptics who is subject to some pretty harsh treatment on ATS so I felt a little bit of sceptic humour to help things along might have been a good idea. I think that most people in the context of this thread would recognise that I was making a light hearted comment that I am sure many sceptics would recognise.

Like I say unless you are one of the people that I refer to as the “sceptics” then you’re probably not really going to get this thread as such because you probably are not subject to the same type of behaviour that we often are treated with. I am not saying that people don’t offend you on ATS rather that if they do it will be in a different way.

This thread really is more me trying to explain to you what it’s like to be at the other side of your (by that I mean the “believers”) arguments.

If you don’t like what you’re seeing in the mirror I have put up then that’s not my problem.

I dont know if i qualify as a sceptic or not, i joined recently, because i find the threads interesting to read. I guess i niavely thought that i would find some kind of truth on a forum like this, but obviously everybody on here has their own "truth".
I dont understand though why people slag each other off on here for their beliefs. I mean if you dont believe in aliens visiting the planet, then you arent going to believe somebody who comes on and talks about a personal experience with an alien ( for example). However that doesnt mean that your are right and they are wrong, you have no idea what they might have experienced.
I think a little more respect on everybodies part would be great.
I've been quite surprised at the way some of the more religious posters on here talk to each other, as if the fact that someone shares a different belief somehow makes the mentally deficient.

reply to post by Chadwickus

Clearly you're here to confirm your beliefs, while we're here to challenge them.

Are you sure you are not here to confirm your beliefs about the Status Quo of the Mainstream Media's infallibility and honesty?

You should try it some time, it's very enlightening.

I do it all the time, mainly because the Status Quo of "Common Knowledge" is delivered by the Corporate Mainstream Media.... and I come here to challenge those "Normal/Standard" beliefs.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I genuinely don’t know if you’re posts are a poor attempt at sarcasm

The second one where I called you a tin foil hatted nutter, was an attempt at sarcasm... but for a purpose.

Because you disagree with me according to you:

I am a paid shill (no I am a voluntary “super-Shill”)

Yes... basically.

• I automatically believe everything that I am told by the MSN and anyone in authority nothing (could be further from the truth)

So, what do you think about WTC 7?

Is it what the media tells you?

• I wine loudly like I child (should that be type like a wining child)

Wineing does not indicate the medium of communication.

• Sound like a tin foil hat nutter
• Live in my mother’s basement
• I need to get laid (guess what I’ve just done )
• Sound like a basement dwelling loser
• Then you enquire if I have autism (I don’t)

These were supposed to be sarcasm... I would have thought it would have been obvious

• And how dare I call myself a sceptic because I don’t agree with you.

How dare you call yourself a Sceptic, because you are not SCEPTICAL of the Mainstream Media and the Official Story.

You stated in your OP that you aren't a "Conspiracy Theorist", which means that you don't think that people in power are conspiring to commit illeigal acts.

I don't see how you can in good conscience call yourself a sceptic, since you are not sceptical of the Mainstream Media.

IT is the exact opposite of the Meaning of Sceptic.


You are Sceptical, of SCEPTICS.

Therefore, you are not a sceptic.

There was not a single logical or relevant counterargument to any of the claims in my OP

You didn't MAKE any claims in your OP except that you were a sceptic.

Which I gave a perfectly good reason for refuting.

I really think it is quite telling that you chose to articulate your disagreement with me with such harsh words rather than an eloquent and meaningful counter argument to my claims.

You will eventually realize why I called you a tin foil hatted nutter.... although it will probably take you a few days to figure it out.


YOU ARE NOT A SCEPTIC

THIS IS ALL FROM YOU OP:

Well I say sceptics perspective but I think what I really mean is from the perspective of someone who doesn’t believe what many would describe as a “conspiracy theory” .

The problem is that all debates that I enter I go into knowing that nobody is going to believe anything from the MSN

Shilling for Mainstream News?

Really?

What more is that in every debate I enter into my credibility is automatically shot to bits because I don’t believe that 9/11 was an inside job or that the NWO controlling the world

They did, and they are.

and now my use of logic is dismissed

Your opening posts uses about 10 different logical fallacies, including poisoning the well, appeal to authority, and ad homenim attack.

am a shill a government employee who gets paid $80,000 to sit on ATS and tell the conspiracy crowd that 9/11 wasn’t a inside job, because “they” (...) have nothing better to spend their cash on

That's because they DO these kinds of things.... It's called Astroturfing.... is your memory really that short?

It has been reported that HBGary Federal was contracted by the U.S. government to develop astroturfing software which could create an "army" of multiple fake social media profiles.

en.wikipedia.org...


You know what YOUR problem is?

You don't accept any evidence that doesn't come from the Mainstream Media or Corporate Government.

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


I find it funny that you still continue to perfectly demonstrate exactly what I was talking about

Essentially you are saying that I am not a sceptic because I am not sceptical of the MSN and official story, well let me tell you I am actually I am very sceptical of them but I am also very sceptical of what many would call “conspiracy theories”. You and I are both sceptics its just that we are sceptical of different things in different ways and so we have different views and that’s amazing because provided we do so with mutual respect we could have fantastic and interesting debates.

I think it really interesting that you presume that because I don’t think 9/11 was a inside job that I automatically believe the official story behind everything. I don’t. I believe David Kelly was assassinated, that we have been visited by UFOs at some point in human history, I am very interested in government black ops units and I have some serious questions about pan am 103. Therefore I am very sceptical of the “official version”
But

This thread is not about the nature of being a sceptic or a conspiracy theorist this thread is about how people who openly say on ATS that they don’t believe 9/11 was a false flag, or state a opinion that is different from the status quo for ATS are treated and yes your previous posts were a perfect example of what I was talking about.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I find it funny that you still continue to perfectly demonstrate exactly what I was talking about

You didn't even READ what I just wrote, do you have these kinds of pre made responses just in case someone starts calling you on your [snip]?

Essentially you are saying that I am not a sceptic because I am not sceptical of the MSN and official story

THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT?

What EXACTLY are you sceptical of?

And if you say that you are sceptical of people who are sceptical of the Media or Government, YOU FAIL.

well let me tell you I am actually I am very sceptical of them but I am also very sceptical of what many would call “conspiracy theories”.

How EXACTLY are you sceptical of them?

I need citations and Sources here, buddy...

What do you think they are lying about?

You and I are both sceptics its just that we are sceptical of different things in different ways and so we have different views and that’s amazing because provided we do so with mutual respect we could have fantastic and interesting debates.

Are you Pierce Morgan?

I think it really interesting that you presume that because I don’t think 9/11 was a inside job that I automatically believe the official story behind everything.

Then WHAT are you sceptical of from the Mainstream Media or Government?

Put up or shut up.

I believe David Kelly was assassinated, that we have been visited by UFOs at some point in human history, I am very interested in government black ops units and I have some serious questions about pan am 103. Therefore I am very sceptical of the “official version”

So you believe that people are CONSPIRING in the Mainstream Media and government to lie to you, and murder people?

Is this what you are saying?

This thread is not about the nature of being a sceptic or a conspiracy theorist this thread is about how people who openly say on ATS that they don’t believe 9/11 was a false flag, or state a opinion that is different from the status quo for ATS are treated and yes your previous posts were a perfect example of what I was talking about.

You mean the way that people who DO believe that 9/11 was an inside job are treated by the REST OF SOCIETY, GOVERNMENT, and MAINSTREAM MEDIA?

That way?

Tin Foil Hatted Nutter Indeed.

Are you Pierce Morgan? You sound like him.

We come to Above Top Secret to Deconstruct the Status Quo... to DOUBT the Mainstream Media and Official Government Stories.

We come here to DENY ignorance, and Question Authority.


And you wrote your little rant, complaining that people are doing EXACTLY THAT, when you tell them that The media is telling the truth, the Government story is entirely correct, and they argue with you because of it.

For all intents and purposes, you might as well BE the mainstream media, or a Government Paid shill....... because that is PRECISELY how you are acting.

Hey, Found some interesting threads by You.... thought I'd share them for all in attendance:

we have people who believe the official story banging their heads against an impenetrable wall as they desperately try to show the conspiracy theorists how very wrong they are.

Let’s Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Argument’s

Yeah... REAL logical response there... Asserting your position is correct without any scepticism at all... Nice.

Ban the Gun, Repeal the Second Amendment.,

Oh really?

Ron Paul is Taking Over ATS, is there anything the mods can do?

Oh, how Fair of you....

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

ErtaiNagia
You know what YOUR problem is?

You don't accept any evidence that doesn't come from the Mainstream Media or Corporate Government.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
If you want to believe in the OPs speculation for which there is zero evidence over the media...

Thread: The Boston Bombings took place to test martial law

sometimes i'm just ultra skeptical of skeptics.

other times I feel I should just say whatevers on my mind to push forward an idea no matter how stupid it sounds.

if its stupid as hell, then someone will come along and attempt to correct me, then if he gets it wrong, someone else will come along to correct him.

we wouldn't be where we are today as a species without people like you, or people like me.

reply to post by yourmaker

we wouldn't be where we are today as a species without people like you, or people like me

It's depressing how true this statement is.