ATS from a Sceptics Perspective.

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posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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Well I say sceptics perspective but I think what I really mean is from the perspective of someone who doesn’t believe what many would describe as a “conspiracy theory” .

To anyone who isn’t a “sceptic” this thread might not make much sense but I am really fed up with the way that “sceptics” are treated on ATS and its not just me it’s all sceptics (and Chewbacca). By the very nature of ATS we are going to disagree and that’s fine, I embrace it and love it provided things stay civil.

BUT from a sceptics perspective these debates often turn in to something akin banging your head against a brick wall or trying to teach super string theory to an autistic hamster

The problem is that all debates that I enter I go into knowing that nobody is going to believe anything from the MSN, any reports form a NGO, nothing said from a government official and at some point I am going to be attacked personally. That said however some people will say for example “did the MSN tell you that” yet in the same post link me into the daily mail or BBC news, conspiracy theories it would seem have a no sense of irony.

What more is that in every debate I enter into my credibility is automatically shot to bits because I don’t believe that 9/11 was an inside job or that the NWO controlling the world with the shape shifting reptilians who work with the galactic federation of light who use fluoride to make us stupid and our kids gay or some other nonsense. You go into a 9/11 thread and openly say 9/11 was not a false flag and you are treated like a total idiot, you could have a PHD on the history of 9/11 and still be treated like a utter idiot because you don’t Know about Al-CIAdu and Tim Osman.

The next problem I always have is the use of logic, if I use logic to say “no you have not been visited by Elvis on a UFO because Elvis is dead and you can prove the existence of the UFO” that is not enough. No there is then a demand for “proof” like I have to prove that you didn’t see a UFO when the other member can’t even prove in the first place that he actually saw a UFO. So eventually I am just dismissed as being close minded and that I need to open my third eye to understand, it would seem the third eye can vanish logic.

I honestly had someone once demand that prove that they couldn’t levitate…..


So all my evidence that would usually be fine in any other argument is worthless, I am automatically treated like village idiot and now my use of logic is dismissed but I am also a government employee. Yes that’s right I (and others) am a shill a government employee who gets paid $80,000 to sit on ATS and tell the conspiracy crowd that 9/11 wasn’t a inside job, because “they” (they could be anything form the illumanti to the telletubies) have nothing better to spend their cash on that have me try to bombard you all with my evidence and logic to get you to shut up about the TSA. I personally think my wages could be better spent on sending in trained monkeys to sabotage you’re internet connections. Anyway If I am not a shill then I am a disinfo agent, Stooge, actor or just a plane @$$hole, the latter of which is actually true.

Now because I have no evidence, I am a blithering idiot who uses that mythical beast logic and I also work for the government eventually someone breaks form the crowd and questions “why are you even here?”

AHHHHH!!!!
edit on 21-4-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because:

Basically this all leads to a position that means its impossible for me to have a reasonable discussion with anyone one this site.
edit on 21-4-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-4-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)
extra DIV




posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:01 PM
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Another thing which annoys me greatly:

You disagree with someone? You're automatically a "paid shill" no matter how informative you're other posts, and it annoys me because you can't have a debate when one side refuses to even consider the others points and discards them because they disagree.
edit on 21/4/13 by SaltireWarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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Im sick and tired of getting this as a counter argument "then why are you on a CONSPIRACY forum..
"
They call me a skeptic I call them conspiracy sheep.



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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I've never been part of a forum after something like this occurs.

Is this a typical reaction? It's scary to see how divorced from reality some are! And I'd have thought I was more divorced from reality being a UFO CT and spiritual mumbo jumbo speaker!!

For example - drills will be going on in May at three areas. Doesn't anyone stop to ask themselves why in a logical manner? Perhaps, it's because they are tracking down a cell? Maybe they have intel now of where to expect the next attacks? Do these people actually think that there are no terrorists in the world? Only evil governments?

It's really scary to see it. It's getting my dander up too.

A note to add. In watching all of this closely and taking in everything. (I've a really good memory) A mechanic reported seeing many people coming to and from that older brothers apartment regularly. Now when they got in there - they found pipe bombs and ied's a plenty. This logically begs the question ... How many of those people do we need to find as soon as possible? Who were coming to and from from an apartment filled with explosives?

Cirque
edit on 21-4-2013 by CirqueDeTruth because: added thought
edit on 21-4-2013 by CirqueDeTruth because: verb change



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by zonetripper2065
Im sick and tired of getting this as a counter argument "then why are you on a CONSPIRACY forum..
"
They call me a skeptic I call them conspiracy sheep.


Yes I hate that a thread with 50 members going on about how the flying dot in the sky must be the ground breaking proof of UFO’s yet the one member who disagrees with the “sheep”.

I don’t get it, I don’t think that some people on ATS realise that they are actually the “sheep” of the community



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


Bravo! Well said. I also have yet to see a Reptilian. I have not seen a UFO. Also , last time I checked I had no third eye either. And sadly I have never nor can I levitate (durn It) .I have read your threads and they are always clearly stated. Your patience amazes me often. I am alas , perfectly normal, not blessed with the additional attributes of seemingly, the masses. My opinions are also like onions, layered often and a little mild. Stay strong and keep up the good repertoire. I will continue to read your threads without the need for reptilian webbed feet.



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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Logic does take a back seat here sometimes.

I once asked what happened to the plane that "supposedly" didn't hit the Pentagon....where did it and the passengers go?

The overwhelming answer I got was that the government flew the plane to a remote island and killed everyone on board. I was also told that none of the people on the plane were "real" but were all actors.

I love ATS, but there are times when I want to throw my hands in the air and give up.

S&F



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


Then let me be the first to say that you must also be Vulcan! How you liking life on earth? Kinda tough finding out that everything isn't logical! But, time is a teacher, if you keep your eyes open.




posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by smyleegrl
 


Hahha I have a entire thread that’s like that

I asked why they would bother destroying WTC7

It ended up with lots of angry people angrily saying “we don’t know but that doesn’t prove a thing”



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


People have deep held views and challenging those views is akin to kicking their dog and they react to that , The truth is those views are largely built on belief and wanting to believe rather than researched informed opinion ....Its fun to speculate rather than find the truth.

I'm not sure its about being a skeptic but wanting a higher standard of proof before you believe something , Some do and some don't , Those that don't seem to resent those that do and so the animosity starts even though the motto of the site is Deny Ignorance

You can lead a Horse to water ....




I honestly had someone once demand that prove that they couldn’t levitate…..

I think I remember that


edit on 21-4-2013 by gortex because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


In topics of this nature, it often seems to be viewed as if you either are, or you are not.
[color=757575]Cut & Dry. Black & White. This or that. etc....


It's not that simple though. Nothing is gained by segregating oneself and/or others into 1 of only 2 groups.

Just because I do(or do not) believe 1 thing, does not mean I will(or will not) believe in this other thing. Conclusions should be reached based upon the evidence provided (or a lack thereof), regardless of who presented said evidence.




Question Everything




posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by BrokenCircles
 


Oh I do. Question everything. My teenager had a lot of questions in regards to all this. She's 15 and well aware that I pay attention to all sides of different issues - which is why I frequent sites like ATS.

So my daughter made the statement, "I thought you agree that the government does bad things that it shouldn't".

My response. "Yes, but I disagree the right way. By voicing my opinions, contacting my senator, and protesting things I don't agree with in a peaceful manner. That's being a responsible citizen - who's paying attention to what the people in power, where money talks - is doing. But it's never okay to try and change the government by acts of violence against your fellow Americans! Never. So run away from those who would have a sympathetic view towards these two terrorists. You don't want to be around people who think those two men were justified in their actions."

This whole thing is crazy. But it's brought it to my mind - that I have to talk politics with my teenager. Or she just might be convinced to support these jack-offs, just like these terrorists girlfriends. Eh?

Just ranting.

Cirque
edit on 21-4-2013 by CirqueDeTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I asked why they would bother destroying WTC7



Have you STILL not found this out??


Time to give up OtherSide!



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Pretty decent rant, in my humble opinion. A bit extreme on some points, perhaps, but I understand that in a rant there's often a need to slightly exaggerate and hopefully people will see that you are not being totally literal.


There's nothing wrong with being a sceptic. We need sceptics. We need people who will look at an issue and say, "Hey, wait a minute, people are adding 2 and 2 and getting 5." Or 27. Or whatever. We need people who are willing to be different and even present concepts that perhaps no-one has fully considered.

No-one has to like what you or anyone says. If others don't like your opinions, okay. They have to think of reasonable ways to refute them or maybe even have a total rethink.

What we really need and what is ideal, is that every person will be respected and their ideas and opinions considered rationally.

It's a great ideal but sometimes it just doesn't work out because emotions come into play and in some cases reason just flies out the _

Some of the arguments I have seen on this site, presented by people who either vehemently believe (in) something are just as vehemently don't, are simply beyond absurd and if used as sub-plots in a movie they would fail miserably to impress even those who have suspended disbelief.


I'm not saying that all people who firmly believe in something (or don't) always present absurd arguments. Nope, not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that generally, the absurd arguments that have more holes in them than a kitchen colander are often presented on the basis of belief, not on the basis of fact, logic or even common sense.

If you get called a shill, then the person who calls you that has just washed out in the reasonable argument department. In fact, if you get called such things in the 9/11 forum, where the emotions seem to run very high at times, the person who does the name-calling may well find themselves unable to post within a very short time. The warning is there, in the forum, but some choose to ignore it or think it doesn't apply to them.

It does. It most certainly does.

But why have a standard to aspire to? Why is it that here, members should expect other members to treat them with respect?

Because it's the right thing to do and the intelligent thing to do. This is a discussion forum, not kindergarten where teddy bears can be thrown in a fit of childish petulance.
You know that. Most of our members know it. Some apparently don't.

I say you should go right on challenging, questioning and agreeing or disagreeing as you see fit, and so should anyone else who wishes to. As long as you stay within the T&Cs, speak your mind.


If others can't be civil and act like adults then that's their problem, not yours.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 04:29 PM
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It is nice, for a change, to hear about a sceptic's perspective once in a while.
I appreciate having different and various views and opinions around me because it is easy to get lost in the vastness of conspiracy theories floating around out there.

I have my own beliefs of course, but, I wouldn't be fair to myself, or any fellow human for that matter, if I would refuse to listen to their theories.

Good thread.



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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If a group of thugs go into a warehouse and plot a bank heist, that is a conspiracy. If a group of bankers collectively realize their competitors are gaining an advantage by manipulating libor so they do it also, this is illegal but not shown to be pre-meditated so is not a conspiracy. If the bankers and thugs and the war-profiteers put their propaganda media into action in order to foment a war, that is conspiracy. As to logic, if I pick the dumbest scientist I can find and quote him or her so as to say all scientists are crazy, that isn't skepticism, that is bull#. Bad people get together all the time to make money and increase their power and cover their tracks any way they can. My favorite senator is asking her own bureaucrats why they are not putting any of these bankers in jail and all they can do is wring their hands and sweat.



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 07:45 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


"If you don't believe in magic, you will never find magic"

If you don't believe in anything beyond what CNN tells you. You should not be here. Your time is better spent on things you do believe in. You can give people the other side of your coin all you would like but your coin has no value here. You don't contribute to any topic if you believe in nothing. There are cosmic truths that are hidden to you because you do not have the logic to see them. You are asleep and your core being will not allow you to awake. The red pill lies in your 3rd eye and the chakras. It is the being you were meant to be but the bible tells you not to investigate. Since you do not believe in the bible, or 3rd eye what harm does it do you to attempt to investigate enlightenment? Your core being is holding you back from it your EGO fears not being you.



posted on Apr, 21 2013 @ 10:19 PM
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I liked the humor: "they could be anything form the illumanti to the telletubies"....this and a couple of other things made me laugh....

The member above with a large amount of posts and with direct assaults is actually the kind which the OP describes....all that name calling and choice of insults just shows you as an unimaginative teen, who should be given a warning from the Mod at the least.





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