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A Baby's Right to Choose

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posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Lecky

Originally posted by Herman

That's just the point. If women would have more control over what goes in, we wouldn't be having this problem!

BAZZZIINNNGGG!!

Haha, sorry couldn't resist.


Yeah b/c getting pregnant is always the woman's fault! Takes 2 to tango...


I agree. But when we're talking about abortion, it is the woman's fault. If she chooses to have sex, she should be prepared to accept the consequences.

And Marge:

I think you missed my point. It wasn't just a dirty joke, I was making the point that women shouldn't have random sex, then just turn to abortion to solve their problems. How hard is it to get protection?

[Edited on 3-11-2004 by Herman]




posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:09 PM
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Try telling the same thing to more men...

If more men would take responsibility perhaps women wouldn't feel so trapped and desperate.

It's not a decision people take lightly.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia
Try telling the same thing to more men...

If more men would take responsibility perhaps women wouldn't feel so trapped and desperate.

It's not a decision people take lightly.


Well yeah. Men shouldn't sleep around either.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:16 PM
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Sorry Sminkey, but you didn't help. All that knee-jerk anger, not a single distinction. I wasn't talking about the methods, I was talking about the reasons, and the excuses for those reasons.

In fact, your example only proved my point.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by Herman

Well yeah. Men shouldn't sleep around either.


No, they shouldn't. But the thing is, you don't have to 'sleep around' to get pregnant. Plenty of women are deserted in the face of pregnancy and feel that abortion is the only choice when they are essentially left alone to raise a child. It's NOT an easy decision, as some seem to think it is.

There a re a lot of issues that impact the choice a woman makes regarding abortion; perhaps if such issues were dealt with, there wouldn't be so many of them.


IBM

posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Men when your grow an uterus then your may have a say so in what goes in there or comes out of it, but for now uterus are the women property.



If you dont want to have a baby use protection. Or is that CHOICE too hard to decide? So dont be a hypocrite.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by IBM

If you dont want to have a baby use protection. Or is that CHOICE too hard to decide? So dont be a hypocrite.


People can protect themselves plenty but it's never a guarantee that you won't get pregnant. Accidents happen, condoms break, tubal ligations are less permanent these days, vasectomies aren't 100% either. What do you propose, people stop having sex to prevent pregnancy? That's not realistic.


IBM

posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia

Originally posted by IBM

If you dont want to have a baby use protection. Or is that CHOICE too hard to decide? So dont be a hypocrite.


People can protect themselves plenty but it's never a guarantee that you won't get pregnant. Accidents happen, condoms break, tubal ligations are less permanent these days, vasectomies aren't 100% either. What do you propose, people stop having sex to prevent pregnancy? That's not realistic.



So what? Having sex usually means that those risks are involved. IF you are worried about having an accident then dont drive.


Originally posted by worldwatcher
it amazes me the lack of knowledge that some men have with female issues. Perhaps enough people haven't said it to you yet, maybe you just don't get it, but when a woman chooses to have an abortion, she is not contemplating wiping out an entire race, she is not committing genocide of a race.

She is making a decision which concerns her body, her life, the people involved in her life. What she does, does not affect Joe Schmoe. He is not paying for it. He doesn't have to live with the guilt or the what ifs. His life continues on as normal. He feels no pain nor shed no tears because it is not his business to know. The woman who makes such a decision usually has thought long and hard about the consequences of her actions, she has considered her faith and willing to face the penalty.

Supporting the Right to Choose, doesn't question your morals, you Joe Schmoe don't even have to know what Jane Doe did, by supporting the Right to Choose, you are saving a life and you don't even know it.

Women have had abortions for as long as there has been history. Would you rather women die from drinking strange conconctions and getting torn up from the insides by a midwife or worse? The Right to Choose gives women the medical help to do what they would have done anyways but in a safer environment.

Perhaps if I speak in terms that some may relate to more:
God will not condemn or punish you for allowing a woman to have free will and choose her own damnation. You are not the guilty party and you will not be judged. It is the individual woman who will be judged when judgement day comes and yes the doctors and nurses who helped, they will be cast to the flames of hell, not you.


LOL, dont get me started. That woman is being selfish. SHe is deciding about her body, yet forgets the childs body.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by IBM

Originally posted by marg6043
Men when your grow an uterus then your may have a say so in what goes in there or comes out of it, but for now uterus are the women property.



If you dont want to have a baby use protection. Or is that CHOICE too hard to decide? So dont be a hypocrite.


The day you can grow and uterus then you will earn the right to talk about women issues meanwhile the only hypocrite is you. So if you open a thread to insult the posters it shows that you don't want any opinon but your own.

Go grow and uterus and then give birth like a true women and raise that child until he becomes a resposible adult with not help from a man or become pregnet after believing what a man told you and then abandom you with not other choices but to chose. Or be a young woman that get rape, or be pregnat like incest by your own father or grandfather like a child I knew as a teacher she was only 13.

Then we can talk woman to woman.


[edit on 093030p://333 by marg6043]



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher

Perhaps if I speak in terms that some may relate to more:
God will not condemn or punish you for allowing a woman to have free will and choose her own damnation. You are not the guilty party and you will not be judged. It is the individual woman who will be judged when judgement day comes and yes the doctors and nurses who helped, they will be cast to the flames of hell, not you.


You couldn't have said it better, WW.


IBM

posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by IBM

Originally posted by marg6043
Men when your grow an uterus then your may have a say so in what goes in there or comes out of it, but for now uterus are the women property.



If you dont want to have a baby use protection. Or is that CHOICE too hard to decide? So dont be a hypocrite.


The day you can grow and uterus then you will earn the right to talk about women issues meanwhile the only hypocrite is you. So if you open a thread to insult the posters it shows that you don't one any opinon but your own.

Go grow and uterus and then give birth like a true women and raise that child until he becomes a resposible adult with not help from a man or become pregnet after believing what a man told you and then abandom you with not other choices but to chose. Or be a young woman that get rape, or be pregnat like incest by your own father or grandfather like a child I knew as a teacher she was only 13.

Then we can talk woman to woman.

[edit on 093030p://333 by marg6043]


What does having a uterus have to do with anything? Ok if you want it that way how bout this. I believe all men and women are equal and should be treated equally, but there are simply some things men and women cannot do. Men cannot have a baby, women are not as strong, etc. If you want to be held on the same ground as all others you must follow the rules of all others. Men will not kill thier child, so what gives you the special right to kill a child? Just because you are a woman? IF this was the case men could use the excuse of rape "Grow a dick, then you can speak on mens issues."

Note: Rapists are bad and need to be beaten to death.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by IBM]



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by IBM
IF this was the case men could use the excuse of rape "Grow a dick, then you can speak on mens issues."

Note: Rapists are bad and need to be beaten to death.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by IBM]


That's got to be one of the most retarded analogy I've ever read. You have my sympathies.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by IBM


What does having a uterus have to do with anything? Ok if you want it that way how bout this. I believe all men and women are equal and should be treated equally, but there are simply some things men and women cannot do. Men cannot have a baby, women are not as strong, etc. If you want to be held on the same ground as all others you must follow the rules of all others. Men will not kill thier child, so what gives you the special right to kill a child? Just because you are a woman? IF this was the case men could use the excuse of rape "Grow a dick, then you can speak on mens issues."


Having a uterus has to do with everything. Women being the one who has to carry the child for 9 months, give birth and then generally have the role of primary caregiver, if not also be the only economic source.

Men can easily wash their hands of the whole situation. They don't have to go through pregnancy, and then child birth, and then be the primary caregiver. If a single mother, add being the primary source of finances. Women are equal to men and should be seen as such, but that does not mean that their experiences are not different and that social aspects, even in 'progressive' societies don't weigh heavily on them. There are things that women face in patriarchal societies that men have no idea of, one of them being abandoned by men who are generally still bring home the bacon, leaving women in a society that discriminates against single mothers and in an economic system in which most can't win.

When you live the life of a woman and experience the social aspect of being a woman and the expectations and biases from society, and also go through pregnancy and labour, then come back and talk about whether you would have an abortion or not.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by John Nada

Originally posted by IBM
IF this was the case men could use the excuse of rape "Grow a dick, then you can speak on mens issues."

Note: Rapists are bad and need to be beaten to death.

[edit on 3-11-2004 by IBM]


That's got to be one of the most retarded analogy I've ever read. You have my sympathies.


I agree with you after that I decided that he forgot that the issue in this thread of his was about women and the unborn child rights not men and Mr. happy.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by IBM
IF this was the case men could use the excuse of rape "Grow a dick, then you can speak on mens issues."

Note: Rapists are bad and need to be beaten to death.


I think you need to find a better analogy.





[Edited on 3-11-2004 by parrhesia]



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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Nice anti-abortion propaganda there IBM.

Let me ask you one thing... your against abortion but would you be prepared to help out the mothers financially to take care of there unwanted kids?

Probably not


IBM

posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia

Originally posted by IBM
IF this was the case men could use the excuse of rape "Grow a dick, then you can speak on mens issues."

Note: Rapists are bad and need to be beaten to death.


I think you need to find a better analogy.

[Edited on 3-11-2004 by parrhesia]

It is perfectly fine. The men are doing something wrong using their body to make a choice that will affect another human being. The women are doing exactly the same thing with their body that can affect another human being how is it incorrect. I think you need to find a response.


[edit on 3-11-2004 by IBM]



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by IBM

It is perfectly fine. The men are doing something wrong using their body to make a choice that will affect another human being. The women are doing exactly the same thing with their body that can affect another human being how is it incorrect. I think you need to find a response.


[edit on 3-11-2004 by IBM]


It's far from perfectly fine.

You cannot compare the rape of a young girl or a woman to a woman having an abortion.

Again, it comes back to where it becomes a 'human being'. I don't consider it to be a human being at conception or in the first few months. You can't change my opinion of that, and I can't change yours.


IBM

posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia

Originally posted by IBM

It is perfectly fine. The men are doing something wrong using their body to make a choice that will affect another human being. The women are doing exactly the same thing with their body that can affect another human being how is it incorrect. I think you need to find a response.


[edit on 3-11-2004 by IBM]


It's far from perfectly fine.

You cannot compare the rape of a young girl or a woman to a woman having an abortion.

Again, it comes back to where it becomes a 'human being'. I don't consider it to be a human being at conception or in the first few months. You can't change my opinion of that, and I can't change yours.


The Nazis didnt consider the Jews human beings and killed them. Do you have any backing for your opinion? Otherwise your opinion is on the same line as the Nazis.



posted on Nov, 3 2004 @ 11:48 PM
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We all know that women have given away the right to have the father have any responcibility for a child.

If it's your womb, and your choice regardless of what the man thinks, then he does not have responcibility. You can't apply responcibility without rights.

But all this "When a man grows a uterus" conversation is rediculous and defensive at best.

I am tired of these "Pass the Buck" pro-choice guys. You know, the "It's not for me, but you can't..." guys.

Look, no one forced you to do anything (extreme examples aside). So do what we all do, and deal with it like an adult and take care of it rather than cast it aside selfishly.



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