Evidence of Ancient Advanced Civilizations...Would We Find It?

Look at the various pyramids 'finds' in the Caribbean


Pyramids 'finds' in the Carribbean


The Cuban one is at the bottom

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Thanks Harte enlightening and that does clear some up but I am still dubious about the wood and your rebuttals are much more enjoyable and intelligent than some not to mean offence for the most part at least,

I do this purely for my own enjoyment - not to be mean, but because I think it's funny (which, if you think about it, may be worse than just meanness.)
No, I'm pretty much giggling the whole time I'm debunking around here. LOL

Originally posted by LABTECH767As for me being able to type, well that is debatable as I am certainly a sceptic there good job your not a primary school teacher, they would all be crying

High school. Geometry and Physics (when I can get enough students to sign up for it.)

They still cry, though! LOL

Originally posted by LABTECH767 I am actually very new to the net and have had a fascination with this subject for over 20 year's but the data I had available was very limited,

I'm aware. It took me a long time to find out anything reality-based, and a lot of what I learned I had to figure out myself regarding that Rense article.

It doesn't help that there's there's a bunch of Vedic Literature that is "quoted" by the fringe that is only available in Sanskrit. Regarding English translations, I don't think I've ever seen any collection at one website better than the list at Sacred-Texts: link.

Originally posted by LABTECH767still while I like your comment's for the information and intelligent use of data I can only say it will take a lot more to completely shake a conviction that is so entrenched and while I can not claim any knowledge of the Sanskrit text's of the Indian subcontinent other than what I have read on the net or in the public library prior to the last year that I have had net access so can not easily refute or as some do TWIST the data to my perception, as I do not see this as an argument but a series of hypothetical scenario's and with each new bit of information a bit of the fog is cleared but with some disappointment.

When I had the realization that none of this fluff was real, I became angry. Specifically at Erik Von Daniken.
I guess everyone can probably tell, I'm not a person that likes to be made a fool of, which is what EVD did. (Yes, I was once a believer too.)

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Have you with a unbiased view looked at the structure's off Cuba (Look I know it is not actually possible to look at them but the data that has been provided by the team themselves) or the other structure's such as the megalithic stone structures off japan

Yes. The frst are only sidescan sonar images - notoriously unreliable, and not a thing else. Please note, these pics were taken by a salvage team hired by Fidel Castro to look for sunken treasure off Cuba's coast. There never has been any academic on any expedition to that site, and the NatGeo people backed out of a story they planned to do on it when they saw what they were basing the story on.

The second is undoubtably a natural formation. The main academic that associates himself with that site, Masaaki Kimura, Prof of Geology at some Asian university, came out several years ago stating that the site was a small island that sank about 2,000 years ago. Turns out they found the evidence of this in an underwater cave.

Besides, all it takes is a moment's thought to realize it's natural. The site was certainly above the water at some point, but it would have been a small spit of an island within sight of the much larger island of Yonaguni. So, if some culture lived there and worked the stone, why no sign of them in the archaeology of the main island? (The exact same question can be asked about the ridiculous "Bimini Road," you know.)

If you examine any exposed bedrock on the main island, you can easily note the exact, same "stairstep" patterns there that so fascinate the chronically astonished fringies at the underwater site. Google Schoch and Yonaguni in the same searchbox to see some examples of these formations on the main island.

"Chronically astonished." Pretty good, eh? I made that one up, and simply love to use it. (See? Giggling the whole time.)

Soooo... Disappointing, right?

You mad at Graham Hancock yet?

Harte

reply to post by Hanslune


I get your point but the Cuban anomaly is the only one that can be substantiated with sonar and photographic data as well the most valid origins, that were not that valid, for the story I would not call the others liars but as much as I would like to see a giant pyramid found underwater (it would scare me actually) it is simple not likely to be the case, however if there were another race before our own to quote the Chinese "the most cunning animal is the one no man has yet seen" and they may be able to control our perception if they were advanced and had been around long enough and were still here.


Thanks to Harte as well for correcting me so I have just edited this and removed a great chunk of misconceived nonsense on my part.

The point at which Erik Von Daniken lost any respect from me was his platinum disc's that never existed, like many of these authors he is in it to make money and sensationalism sell's, the same might be said of hatcher and childress but how ever dodgy his story was and how ever true or untrue his claim to fame at NASA Maurice Chatalain was at least better than Daniken, so in rely to Harte, I am not angry EVD and company just disappointed that they would willingly lie to so many people, I suppose they really should have been politician's or lawyer's.

What really annoys me are the like' of David Ike and his cult following that can lead people whom are not mentally stable into losing there grip on reality, but hey so long as he make's a buck he is not bothered.

reply to post by GargIndia


Well how about that? That was an interesting article about those US Soldiers going missing.
I just find it hard to believe that our commander an chief would stop what he is doing to go see this ancient artifact.
I would like to get my hands on some sanskrips an translate them.
Do you have any sources as to where I might see them?
If I were the indian government, I would recover all those scrolls an start number crunching, lol.
But like I said and continue to insist, the key to finding anything ancient an technological would be on the moon, mars and floating around space in orbit around the moon an other planets.

Originally posted by Arnie123
reply to post by GargIndia

 

I would like to get my hands on some sanskrips an translate them.

Have you studied Sanskrit to understand whats written in those So called "manuscripts" to translate them??

The debate earlier brought up the question of the possibility that any pre human civilisation would likely have had to be a very long time ago indeed and we all know how glaciation can scrub the ground right through to the bedrock and can be immensely destructive to any traces that would otherwise have survived, here is an article that compresses one of the snow ball earth hypothesis for your delectation.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now there are those whom believe that a gentleman called Charles Hapgood was correct in his theory called earth crust displacement en.wikipedia.org... but there are geological structures called thermal plumes that at least as far as I am concerned discount the theory (though it is mechanically possible it may not of ever occurred or at least not for a very long time indeed as Hawaii and the Yosemite National Park are all sitting on top of thermal plume's, the one in Hawaii is responsible for the island's existence. These are important because they act as geological markers as some can exist for hundreds of millions of year's and such is the case with Hawaii that only exists because it sits on top of a geothermal plume, as the tectonic plate has shifted over time across the plume the island has arose and sunk several times and if you look at the ocean topography around Hawaii you will find a series of sea mounts that get progressively smaller in a line that goes in the direction the plate is shifting, each of these sea mount's may once have been an island that sank after the geothermal plume either calmed for a time or the plate moved over it and away from the geothermal column forcing it to find a new way to the surface switching it's upward pressure away from the former island that then slowly sank back beneath the pacific while a new island was pushed up next to it.

www.enotes.com...

The scope and breadth of geological time is not easy to digest but given this is it not conceivable that the human race being only a foot note in the history of the earth may not have been the first sentient species or indeed that prior to the great freeze that ended prior to the Cambrian era 650 million years ago and may have lasted millions or even billions of years in a cycle of successive mega ice ages that an entire ecology may have existed with multiple species and evolutionary trees that we now know nothing of but given this is it not possible that a species may have arisen then maybe utterly alien and maybe given that life seeks the same solutions they may have even looked humanoid.
Of course we may never know and those oddities that arise in isolation are regarded as anomalous
With this I will end but will watch to see any interesting comment's as this has by far an a way been the most enjoyment I have yet had on the net and thanks to some truly brilliant people for making it so.

reply to post by coredrill


No, that is why I would like to get my hands on them an take the long road of knowledge to better understand them, I understand it may not have anything to with what this thread is about, but nonetheless, I would love to learn.
Do you have any idea what they mean? Or whats on them? I ask for enlightenment, so please, don't get ballsy an throw it in my face, a just question, thank you.

Originally posted by Arnie123
I ask for enlightenment, so please, don't get ballsy an throw it in my face, a just question, thank you.

I'm going to suggest you formulate the questions that you have, and track down what has been presented in academic or scholarly research. It's tougher, but it is better than starting from the fringes, and gives you a more solid base to build upon.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Prior to 650 Mya the oxygen content on our world was less than 5 percent. Free oxygen itself didn't start developing until 1.8 to 1.7 billion years ago. Any sentient life then would not be based upon oxygen.

However, more importantly is that yes, while glacial movement can scrape away many thing, we still have fossil records.
Right now the fossil records show that it wasn't until around 530 Mya that the first fish developed. Animals appearing on land are not shown until 425 Mya.

Prior to all that, the only fossil records we have (going back prior to 650 Mya) are that of bacteria and viruses, but nothing more complex than that.

Still we can look at what you suggest because after all, 425,000,000 is a very long time.

The problem that I see is that the fossil record that we see isn't showing us any animals that may have been tool using prior to early humans.

Many theories about what alien life out there in the universe if it's intelligent would look like, however, the use of limbs that contain digits is thought to be something that we'd find on any intelligent species (unless of course they've evolved past the need for them), as the digits of our hands are very basic for being able to use tools.
You might have some with only 4 digits, or some with 8 on a hand, but the idea is the same: limbs that end in digits allow for more complex tool use and building.

Prior to the KT boundry we don't have any fossils of animals that display anything like what we as humans today have.

The fossil record shows that it wasn't until about 6 Mya that we have primates that did have hands with digits leading up to what we humans have today.

So yes, while ice ages could potentially erase any trace of earlier civilizations prior to ancient humans, the problem is that the fossil record doesn't support it

Now, we could look at more modern humans (modern as in brain size and use of fire) which is thought to have happened as late at 790,000 years ago or possibly as early at 1.5 million years ago. Let's go with the larger number of 1.5 million years to give us a larger buffer of time.

I've seen many speculate before of the possibility of earlier civilizations and much more advanced humans. As you pointed out, an ice age (or glacial periods) could scrape way existing evidence of anything advanced.

The problem however is that the last ice age which started about 2.5 million years ago (but has had several glacial periods during that time of advancing and retreating ice), is not the same as the Snow Ball events that happened prior to 650 Mya. The ice during this last 2.5 million years has never reached down all the way to our equator.

Civilizations tend to spread, especially advanced ones. All you have to do is take a look at human history all over the planet for the last 4,000 years to see that. If there were any civilizations that became very advanced, I would speculate that their influence would have reached all the way to the equator at least.

So mainly the problem I see is the fossil record not supporting it. While I think such a find would be very interesting, and I do believe that recent discoveries in more and more archaeology digs are pushing the boundries for modern human history, I'm just not seeing any support for anything before that.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
The debate earlier brought up the question of the possibility that any pre human civilisation would likely have had to be a very long time ago indeed and we all know how glaciation can scrub the ground right through to the bedrock and can be immensely destructive to any traces that would otherwise have survived, here is an article that compresses one of the snow ball earth hypothesis for your delectation.

Howdy

The problem with that idea is that glaciation didn't cover the entire planet and glaciation isn't always as distructive as one might want. One can still find archaeological sites in Europe and England that predate the glacial age, ie they were not destroyed.


I believe Omni magazine or another mainstream once did a story on what might have occurred if the Dinosaurs had not met Mr. Space Rock, they theorized an intelligent warm blooded intelligent being evolving from one of the smaller carnivores.

(an aside does anyone remember that article?)

You could also look at marsupials for in them there is that smallest of possibilties that they may have evolved intelligence which we have not detected, the evidence for that? Zero, but then I speculate!

Oh, whenever you mention Hapgood in any discussion your IQ is automatically lowered 2 points for the next 72 hours.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Well said, but I would agree with Labtech that although the chances for a undiscovered advanced civilization are remarkably slight they are not '0', maybe .000000001.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Arnie123
I ask for enlightenment, so please, don't get ballsy an throw it in my face, a just question, thank you.

I'm going to suggest you formulate the questions that you have, and track down what has been presented in academic or scholarly research. It's tougher, but it is better than starting from the fringes, and gives you a more solid base to build upon.

Sounds good, but might I add, have'nt we all started from "The Fringes"? In a sense, thats how it all started in this fascination of conspiracy.
I asked for a start to look, if you yourself could provide resources that would be great. Currently, I spend whatever time I have to work out an checkout ATS, as the majority of my time is spent on my military career an my MOS.
Besides, I prefer my method of checking out various source that people would laugh at an roll their eyes, then Ill go an look it up on the mainstream side of things.
BUT, have'nt we learned that in some cases, current mainstream scholary research could be wrong too? I mean at one point in time, we were the center of the universe...

Originally posted by Arnie123


BUT, have'nt we learned that in some cases, current mainstream scholary research could be wrong too? I mean at one point in time, we were the center of the universe...

Scholarly research is always being revised - it's the nature of science. Fringe however tends to remain more static, once a claim is made the claim is rarely abandoned, and is repeated ad nauseum. About 12-15,000 papers get published each year most pointing out new things or modifications to existing theories and in some cases confirming theories, debunking some and all in all a good o'cat fight.

What MOS are you?

reply to post by Hanslune

Okay cool, true that. It just seems that if somthing so radical pops up, it gets buried, history had shown us that, am I wrong? Ideologies an current governments who don't think we should know things is what gets me. But nonetheless, I do agree with you.
My MOS is not a security issue, so I can discuss it.
I am a 74D, CBRN SPC. My job covers Decontamination of Nerve, Blister, Choking, Blood and Biological hazards.
Our MTOE can cover anything from personnel, vehicle an aircraft decon. Also Hazmat an chem force recon fall under the same field.

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Well said, but I would agree with Labtech that although the chances for a undiscovered advanced civilization are remarkably slight they are not '0', maybe .000000001.

I agree. That's why I said the fossil record at this time doesn't support it.

For all we know there is a fossil yet to be found that would change everything. There always is that possibility, so I won't say it's impossible, just very improbable as we understand things right now.

reply to post by Arnie123


1st - the desire to study Sanskrit is a good one, since it will give you more control on understanding proto Indo European languages.
I studied Sanskrit in school in India and am still studying it. its a pleasure.
i didn't mean anything negative. I asked a genuine question. and there are reasons for asking so too - there are truck loads of pseudo -sansrkit experts out here in ATS who cant even read the tail of an Ox in Sanskrit.
So, i was just inquiring.

Why? Cant you answer a simple question, straight forward??
That aint ballsy. Thats just calling a bluff and whacking it with a spade.

2nd. The Who thing about the manuscript about flying machines is a hoax.

reply to post by coredrill


Very happy to know that you study Sanskrit.

Sanskrit is not a static language. Sanskrit of Veda is different from Sanskrit of Ramayan. And Sanskrit of Ramayan is different from Sanskrit of Mahabharat. There are changes in vocabulary with time.

The modern Sanskrit is much simplified and is basically an exotic language (not much in use).

I can provide you resources that can help you understand the language.

Originally posted by Hanslune
I believe Omni magazine or another mainstream once did a story on what might have occurred if the Dinosaurs had not met Mr. Space Rock, they theorized an intelligent warm blooded intelligent being evolving from one of the smaller carnivores.

(an aside does anyone remember that article?)

I do. I was a subscriber until they went all fringey with UFOs.

Here's a pic from the article:



Harte

the article was about the Dinosauroid evolving from the Troodons. a thought experiment by Dale Russell

askwhy.co.uk...

Originally posted by GargIndia
reply to post by coredrill

 

Very happy to know that you study Sanskrit.

Sanskrit is not a static language. Sanskrit of Veda is different from Sanskrit of Ramayan. And Sanskrit of Ramayan is different from Sanskrit of Mahabharat. There are changes in vocabulary with time.

The modern Sanskrit is much simplified and is basically an exotic language (not much in use).

I can provide you resources that can help you understand the language.

edit on 13-5-2013 by GargIndia because: (no reason given)

Exactly. The Sanskrit i studied in school is the modern Sanskrit.
the Sanskrit i am studying now is the older Sanskrit.
its a never ending study.
No thanks, bro, have enough references to study and moreover, I am FROM INDIA, i got a teacher, a linguistics historian who teaches me when he gets time, its a self exploratory drive.