Debunking the Gun-Show Loophole Myth: Video

reply to post by kerazeesicko


SO what did "secret gun dealer sites" have to do with anything?

Or internet sales?

So gun control laws stopped neither Lanza or Holmes.

Fact Sheet: Gun Show Loophole Arms Criminals

The gun show loophole facilitates sales to criminals: 30% of trafficking: One ATF study found that over 10,000 crime guns traced in a year were connected to gun shows – about 30% of all crime guns traced that year. “Gun shows and flea markets are a major venue for illegal trafficking.” according to the ATF. Columbine: All four guns used in the Columbine school massacre were bought at gun shows without background checks. New York City’s investigation of gun shows: In 2009, the City of New York sent undercover investigators to gun shows in Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada to find out if private sellers and federally licensed gun dealers at the shows would engage in illegal sales practices. They found that 74% of sellers approached by investigators, who verbally indicated they were legally prohibited from having guns, were willing to make the sale.

ATF criminal investigations at Gun Shows From Wikipedia
From 2004 to 2006, ATF conducted surveillance and undercover investigations at 195 gun shows (approximately 2% of all shows). Specific targeting of suspected individuals (77%) resulted in 121 individual arrests and 5,345 firearms seizures. Seventy nine of the 121 ATF operation plans were known suspects previously under investigation.[1]
Additionally, ATF Field Offices report that:
Between 2002 and 2005, more than 400 guns legally purchased at gun shows from licensed dealers in the city of Richmond, Virginia, were later recovered in connection with criminal activity. Bouchard notes that, "These figures do not take into account firearms that may have been sold at Richmond area gun shows by unlicensed sellers, as these transactions are more difficult to track."[3] It is noteworthy that the "in connection with criminal activity" category includes stolen guns later recovered from burglaries, but the report does not specify how many guns in the 400 gun figure cited were not guns used in the commission of a crime, but that were rather the fruits of criminal activity.
The Department of Justice reports, "after reviewing hundreds of trace reports associated with guns used in crime recovered in the New Orleans area and interviewing known gang members and other criminals, ATF Special Agents identified area gun shows as a source used by local gang members and other criminals to obtain guns."[1]
In 2003 and 2004, the San Francisco ATF Field Division conducted six general operations at Reno, Nevada, gun shows to investigate interstate firearms trafficking. During these operations, "agents purchased firearms and identified violations related to "off paper" sales, sales to out-of-state residents, and dealing in firearms without a license." The "ATF seized or purchased 400 firearms before making arrests and executing search warrants, which resulted in the seizure of an additional 600 firearms and the recovery of explosives."[1]
ATF's Columbus Field Division conducted its anti-trafficking operations based on intelligence from Cleveland police that "many of the guns recovered in high-crime areas of the city had been purchased at local gun shows." Subsequent gun show sting operations resulted in the seizure of "5 guns, one indictment, and two pending indictments for felony possession of a firearm." The state of Ohio is one of the top ten source states for recovered guns used in crime.[1]
The ATF's Phoenix Field Division reported that "many gun shows attracted large numbers of gang members from Mexico and California. They often bought large quantities of assault weapons and smuggled them into Mexico or transported them to California."[1] Garen Wintemute, a professor at the University of California at Davis, calls Arizona and Texas a "gunrunner's paradise."[26]

Imagine the ones the didn't catch.

reply to post by neo96


Actually the lack of gun control laws were the reason.

Done..gun owners love to live in a blind and deaf world.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by neo96

 

Actually the lack of gun control laws were the reason.

Hilarious lack of gun laws feel free to continue with the "book burning" talk about blind and deaf.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by neo96

 

The Secret Online Weapons Store That’ll Sell Anyone Anything

The Armory began as an offshoot of The Silk Road, notable as the Internet's foremost open drug bazaar, where anything from heroin and meth to Vicodin and pot can be picked out and purchased like a criminal Amazon.com. It's virtually impossible to trace, and entirely anonymous

Check into it...these are run by so called patriots...who feel they shouldn't have to let the government know who owns guns.

So you think that by stopping gun shows, everyone purchasing things illegally on the deep web will stop?

What are you smoking?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere
Felons pay for Guns??? not true they just" take" them, and when it comes to ammo , they "take" that from Wal mart, or a pawn shop.At least they do that here in Ut, I do not known one felon to pay for a gun. Me on the other hand have to fork out $$$ and mounds of paper work unless I go BP black powder and then it is $$ and out the door, no questions asked. getting the powder is a pain, that is a headache all its own.

Now the are "parking lot sales" but you got know idea if the Gun/ weapon is stolen, been used in a crime, used to shoot someone, or will blow up in your face from being over stressed from having hot loads put through it.

reply to post by kerazeesicko

"Straw purchasing was the most common channel in trafficking investigations.

^^ From your link

I'm glad we agree then, that set of stats would be reliable. As a matter of fact, I've used it myself. I'm surprised you'd bring it up though, as it undermines your argument, it doesn't strengthen it.

Straw purchase means someone *DID* undergo the background check while standing in place of the one the purchase was actually intended for. Which means, someone who passed the EXISTING check the so called 'loophole' suggests isn't done, then committed a federal crime by handing the firearm to someone else and whom it had been intended for all along.

So, ATF obviously investigated this back to the original buyer or they couldn't know this much. Surely then, you have a figure for how many of those buyers were arrested, prosecuted and now sit in Federal Prison, right? After all, each and every one of them DID commit a federal crime by abusing the existing system and pulling a fast one on the dealer who ran the check.

.......I notice these stories rarely end with arrests of those guys though. ATF seems less interested in enforcing EVERY law equally, without bias or agenda, than getting stats which are helpful. Kinda how Fast and Furious happened.

Still, the only "loophole" is the fact a private citizen and NON-dealer can take a private owned firearm to carry around a show with a 'for sale' sign on it or stand outside the same way and sell that to another private citizen without either doing a check.

I'm sure the licensed dealers would actually be the first to agree with closing THAT ...IF it was specific to the active gun show property and not this outright stupidity of banning ANY firearms sale between ANY private citizens that doesn't ask the Police first.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down.

Are you saying they have a law in place to stop straw man purchases, yet they still happen? But there's a law in place!

Hold on, the room is spinning.

reply to post by danneu89

pssst... I'll tell ya a secret. They have a law against murder too. Multiple murder even gets a death penalty trial in most states ...and, here's the secret.....They bad guys still violate it. It's not fair I tell ya. The law is supposed to stop the behavior, isn't it?

Really is amazing those who think laws "stop" anything the only thing they do is punish after the fact, and people who don't do anything wrong.