Debunking the Gun-Show Loophole Myth: Video

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posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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For those of you, like myself, who frequently attend Gun Shows, this headline should come as no surprise. There is NO LOOPHOLE! The video spells it out rather clearly when you consider that the numbers being touted around lately date back from a report in 1997 based on a survey of gun owners who acquired guns in 1993 and 1994. Long before the NICS system was in place. BTW only 251 people were surveyed in that study...


Sens. Manchin and Toomey announced their ‘compromise’ on expanding background checks Wednesday, which, among other things, closes the “gun show loophole.” By law, all federal firearms licensees are required to conduct background checks for firearms transactions—even at a gun show. But gun control advocates repeatedly say that 40 percent of all gun purchases at gun shows are private sales and thus, not subject to a background check. Where are they getting this figure from and is it true?


3.9% of gun purchases in 1994 were made at gun shows.

this 40 percent figure comes from a 1997 report by the National Institute of Justice, a research agency within the Department of Justice, and was based on a telephone survey sample of just 251 people who acquired firearms in 1993 and 1994. This was years before the NICS system went into effect. Of the 251 participants, 35.7 percent said that they didn’t or “probably” didn’t obtain their gun from a licensed firearms dealer. Because the margin of error was +/– 6 percentage points, it was rounded up to 40 percent, although it could just as easily and legitimately have been rounded down below 30 percent.

In addition, if you subtract people who said they got their gun as a gift, inheritance, or prize, the number dropped from 35.7 percent to 26.4 percent. And, in terms of how many people actually buy firearms at gun shows, the data from this same survey indicated that in 1994, only 3.9 percent of firearms purchases were made at gun shows.


townhall.com...

edit on 12-4-2013 by jibeho because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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For those who are paying attention every single talking point we have heard today is just the same recycled rhetoric that the anti gun crowd has used for decades.

True fact is an agenda anyone think it is more than that?

Not living in reality that guy was spot on in the video.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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I just don't understand gun owners. Are they retarded..do they understand that if a criminal wants a gun..the best way would be to go through private sellers...so they would not have to deal with the background checks and such.

Is this not hard to understand...criminals will and most likely do buy a lot of their guns from these places or from the internet since there is nothing to find out if they are criminals ...or just steal them from law abiding citizens.


Why do so many criminals have guns in America..because America is a gun worshiping country. So many guns out there...so many unregistered ones at that...so many unregistered guns stolen...etc.


NEED A GUN CRIMINALS..........AMERICA IS THE PLACE TO GET EM...



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by kerazeesicko
 


Have you ever been to a gun show? Simple question. Do you know how many uniformed officers are present at these shows? How many plain clothed officers are at these shows. Licensed dealers who follow the letter of the law make up the overwhelming majority of the vendors selling firearms.

The Criminals do not buy guns from gun shows. Prove that they do. Thugs steal guns from homes, gun shops, vehicles etc etc. In some cases they also use straw buyers which is a direct violation of federal law. The same law broken by the ATF itself. Then those guns are passed around and sold like cheap suits.

And clearly you know nothing about internet sales either. The guns are purchased from FFL dealers who then ship/transfer to another FFL holder who runs the NICS. Then the gun is finally and legally transferred to the new gun owner.

Do your homework....
edit on 12-4-2013 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by kerazeesicko
 


Resorting to lying now?

Really?




Is this not hard to understand...criminals will and most likely do buy a lot of their guns from these places or from the internet since there is nothing to find out if they are criminals


No person can buy a gun from the internet every single gun purchased are sent to local FFL's for pickup.

Much like the gun show loop hole people sure do love to make crap up which pretty much proved the entire Op.

Rather be a gun worshiper than a government worshiper simple fact my guns and million of other guns owners haven't killed anyone.

Say the same about that government who is writing gun laws?



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by kerazeesicko
 

What you say is true ...and with freedom comes responsibility and yes, downsides one has to live with. In a free nation one simply doesn't strike down the rights and liberties of the many to address the homicidal tendencies of the few. One strikes down those few, to be blunt ...but that's not P.C. to say these days. Better we victimize the many then.


In a nation of 330 million people and an estimate of 300+ million firearms (270 million for a documented number a few years ago), that horse is so far out of the barn, it's in a Taco Bell burrito by now.

#1. Gun Control is insuring you have control of at least one of them.

#2. A gun free zone is a 100% safe working environment for violent criminals and murderers.

Sure as anything, they work to mechanical failure or their own human one, whichever comes first. Rarely is it stopped by cops who can't get there by teleporter in the 1-3 minutes most things start and finish in for violent crime.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


The Secret Online Weapons Store That’ll Sell Anyone Anything




The Armory began as an offshoot of The Silk Road, notable as the Internet's foremost open drug bazaar, where anything from heroin and meth to Vicodin and pot can be picked out and purchased like a criminal Amazon.com. It's virtually impossible to trace, and entirely anonymous


Check into it...these are run by so called patriots...who feel they shouldn't have to let the government know who owns guns.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


Yeah they really do need to do their homework

www.cheaperthandirt.com...


Actual buyer must pick up from FFL dealer who will conduct the background check. Firearm transfer must be the actual transferee/buyer. Click here to see BATFE form- Firearm Transaction Record Part 1.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by kerazeesicko
 


Is there a point there?

Lanza or Holmes use a "secret gun dealer site" ?



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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Why Universal Background Check May Be The Most Important Gun Control Measure There Isreply to post by jibeho
 





the ATF reviewed 314 investigations involving gun shows throughout the country. Felons buying or selling guns were involved in more than 46 percent of these investigations, and straw purchases, illegal sales, avoided background checks, and failure to keep accurate records were alarmingly common.


It's not that hard to understand...if criminals want guns..then go to a gun show...they don't do anything to make sure you are not a criminal.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Is there a point...
you just called me a liar and said criminal cannot buy guns from the internet because it is hard to do.

In fact your exact wording "No person can buy a gun from the internet every single gun purchased are sent to local FFL's for pickup"
edit on 12-4-2013 by kerazeesicko because: I CAN



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by kerazeesicko
 

You're pointing to a TOR site for why a 'Gun Show loophole' needs closed? You realize I can also find and hire a hitman down there? I'll bet 50/50 odds it'd even be someone willing to try too. Crazy place.... Half the weapons for sale down deep are out of the country anyway and you're paying more for the smuggle costs on a foreign made AK- or whatever else than the base cost of the gun.

Yikes... I'd love to see them do something about the worst black market in the world ...but that IS global and a fair % of what exists in that world is against every law of man and nature to begin with. Kind of a bad example, isn't it?



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by neo96
 


Is there a point...
you just called me a liar and said criminal cannot buy guns from the internet because it is hard to do.

In fact your exact wording "No person can buy a gun from the internet every single gun purchased are sent to local FFL's for pickup"
edit on 12-4-2013 by kerazeesicko because: I CAN


Answer

Did Lanza or Holmes use a "secret gun dealer site" or "gun show loop hole" ?

Easy question to be answered really easy.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
I just don't understand gun owners. Are they retarded..do they understand that if a criminal wants a gun..the best way would be to go through private sellers...so they would not have to deal with the background checks and such.

Is this not hard to understand...criminals will and most likely do buy a lot of their guns from these places or from the internet since there is nothing to find out if they are criminals ...or just steal them from law abiding citizens.


Why do so many criminals have guns in America..because America is a gun worshiping country. So many guns out there...so many unregistered ones at that...so many unregistered guns stolen...etc.


NEED A GUN CRIMINALS..........AMERICA IS THE PLACE TO GET EM...


Odd, all my criminal friends just steal their guns. Cheaper and no paperwork.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
Why Universal Background Check May Be The Most Important Gun Control Measure There Isreply to post by jibeho
 





the ATF reviewed 314 investigations involving gun shows throughout the country. Felons buying or selling guns were involved in more than 46 percent of these investigations, and straw purchases, illegal sales, avoided background checks, and failure to keep accurate records were alarmingly common.


It's not that hard to understand...if criminals want guns..then go to a gun show...they don't do anything to make sure you are not a criminal.


That study is from 1999 one year after NICS began.... Got anything current.. I can't find the original study to see which years these cases came from. My bet is that these cases occurred long before NICS.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 





Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearms Traffickers


the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) published the "Following the Gun" report.[18] The ATF analyzed more than 1,530 trafficking investigations over a two-and-a-half-year period and found gun shows to be the second leading source of illegally diverted guns in the nation. "Straw purchasing was the most common channel in trafficking investigations."[19] These investigations involved a total of 84,128 firearms that had been diverted from legal to illegal commerce. All told, the report identified more than 26,000 firearms that had been illegally trafficked through gun shows in 212 separate investigations. The report stated that: "A prior review of ATF gun show investigations shows that prohibited persons, such as convicted felons and juveniles, do personally buy firearms at gun shows and gun shows are sources of firearms that are trafficked to such prohibited persons. The gun show review found that firearms were diverted at and through gun shows by straw purchasers, unregulated private sellers, and licensed dealers. Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Firearms that were illegally diverted at or through gun shows were recovered in subsequent crimes, including homicide and robbery, in more than a third of the gun show investigations."



Oh wait why show you this..gun owners are notorious for covering their eyes and ears when it comes to gun stats they don;t agree with.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by jibeho
 


How is 2000?
About the report




Title: Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearms Traffickers Publication Date: June 2000 What does it say? In 1998, Congress asked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) for a performance report on the Youth Gun Crime Interdiction Initiative (YCGII). In response, ATF Headquarters requested all ATF Special Agents in Charge to provide information on all firearms trafficking investigations in their respective areas between July 1996 (the commencement date of YCGII) and December 1998 (the end of the last calendar year before February 1999). A survey was sent to each Field Division requesting information for each investigation. The 23 ATF Field Divisions submitted a total of 1,530 reports on gun trafficking investigations. These reports represented only a portion of ATF's firearm trafficking investigations. The targets of the ATF trafficking investigations during this period diverted a total of 84,128 firearms from legal to illegal commerce. ATF found that corrupt gun dealers and gun shows were major gun trafficking channels
edit on 12-4-2013 by kerazeesicko because: I CAN



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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Lets just say that straw purchasing is a real problem. A horrendous insane problem where 90% of all the felons get their guns.

Okay?

So how does a background check solve that? You know how a straw purchase works, right?



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by kerazeesicko
reply to post by jibeho
 


How is 2000?
About the report




Title: Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearms Traffickers Publication Date: June 2000 What does it say? In 1998, Congress asked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) for a performance report on the Youth Gun Crime Interdiction Initiative (YCGII). In response, ATF Headquarters requested all ATF Special Agents in Charge to provide information on all firearms trafficking investigations in their respective areas between July 1996 (the commencement date of YCGII) and December 1998 (the end of the last calendar year before February 1999). A survey was sent to each Field Division requesting information for each investigation. The 23 ATF Field Divisions submitted a total of 1,530 reports on gun trafficking investigations. These reports represented only a portion of ATF's firearm trafficking investigations. The targets of the ATF trafficking investigations during this period diverted a total of 84,128 firearms from legal to illegal commerce. ATF found that corrupt gun dealers and gun shows were major gun trafficking channels
edit on 12-4-2013 by kerazeesicko because: I CAN


READ before you post PLEASE! The REport was released in 2000 and was based on data between 1996 and 1998. BEFORE NICS!!. Times have changed since the implementation of NICS.



posted on Apr, 12 2013 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


James Holmes, Aurora Shooting Suspect, Used Internet For Arsenal




In a world where Amazon can track your next book purchase and you must show ID to buy some allergy medicine, James Holmes spent months stockpiling thousands of bullets and head-to-toe ballistic gear without raising any red flags with authorities.





Over four months, authorities said, Holmes received more than 50 packages at his Aurora apartment and the University of Colorado medical school, where he was studying neuroscience. As the boxes piled up, he began to shop for guns at sporting goods stores -- because of the need to pass a background check to buy a firearm, they are still generally bought at brick-and-mortar locations.


these were not some secret sites either.

Adam Lanza got his guns from his mother. Who was stockpiling weapons.





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