My Choice: Gay Rights or Save the Rhino

Originally posted by Rodinus

Did you not take time to see my first post to this thread?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

It was my inspiration. Pink and harmless isn't in it with sudden dramatic death. You might want something more immediate and awful than ricin, though. Something that will drag out for days, with vomiting and blood involved.

Also, won't the poacher have already killed the animal by the time he discovers the horn is pink? It would be spectacularly deterrent if the horns were randomly poisonous.

ETA:
Or you could combine one of my old pastimes and the random rhino idea.

Instead of making them poisonous, equip the beasts with IEDs embedded in the horns. If they saw the thing off, they discover it's a big horn-shaped claymore. That would make them a bit less motivated.

reply to post by Bedlam


Generally and sadly the poacher will do this once or twice meaning that yes animals will die... BUT, in the long run if the parks continued to do this they will eventually stop the poaching.

An ex close collaborator of mine actually works in a national park where this has been tried out with much success with a very vivid coloured red dye... which makes the powdered Rhino horn completely useless for human consumption (BUT WITHOUT POISON just an extremely bad taste that stays even when the horn is cleaned and crushed into powder.)

Kindest respects

Rodinus... and i said i was out of here!!

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by Rodinus

Did you not take time to see my first post to this thread?

Kindest respects

Rodinus

It was my inspiration. Pink and harmless isn't in it with sudden dramatic death. You might want something more immediate and awful than ricin, though. Something that will drag out for days, with vomiting and blood involved.

So to protest an illegal murder of a life form, we talk about different ways to murder other lifeforms seeking vengeance ? Are paybacks really the way forward here? I don't think so, it's too short sighted and ineffective.

The way forward here is clearly to address glaring economic and cultural issues that lead to the black market in the first place. Attack the mythology associated with it, offer replacement medications from more reliable and sustainable sources. Countless ways to address this.

We cannot fall victim to our anger, we must master it and overcome it's challenges. Revenge solves nothing my friends. Seeking to harm even more creatures (humans this time) isn't preventing the pain from spreading. It increases the pain amount across various additional organisms.

Also torturing a criminal prisoner is a human rights violation and a heinous crime. Prisoners must be treated with human dignity and respect, despite their wrongdoings or alleged wrongdoings.

Hearing of Rhino mutilation sickens me and I find it deplorable.
Adding on top of this with vicious tortures as punishment, or even murder or the overkill life sentence, isn't going to save many Rhinos. We need to approach this from the top down in a strategic manner.

reply to post by Bedlam


My last post on this thread!

My previous thread: South Africa Farmer To Poison Rhino Horn" refers!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by muzzleflash


On the contrary, I think 'poisoning the well' is an old, time-honored means of dissuading people.

No one MAKES you take powdered rhino horn with ricin in. You knew it was unlawful to begin with. Add in some advertising that it's now a crap shoot to use the stuff, and you ought to be morally covered.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Band aids are a joke.

So instead of looking at the root causes of the problem (economic / cultural ), and addressing those issues, we should let the root problems remain and fester while we swat at flies and put on band aids?

It would be much easier to just create simple education initiatives, promote things like farming which create wealth from the Earth's resources, and attempt to address each issue accordingly.

Poachers are a symptom, not the disease.

I would like to be able to agree with this muzzleflash,but I can`t.

The human race is ever increasing which will always encroach on our wild life,unless we manage the earth as a whole (oh geez I sound like a NWO advocate) and designate where we can populate and enough for nature to look after herself,we are inevitably going to to ruin life as we know it.

It only seems like a couple of years ago (well to me anyway) when the worlds population was approaching 6 billion,now we are already over 7 billion.

1987 5 billion
1999 6 billion
2012 7 billion
en.wikipedia.org...

Who can really predict what the future populations will be,but a major crash will have to happen if it keeps growing.

As the scientist who helped eradicate smallpox he certainly know a thing or two about extinction.

And now Professor Frank Fenner, emeritus professor of microbiology at the Australian National University, has predicted that the human race will be extinct within the next 100 years.

He has claimed that the human race will be unable to survive a population explosion and 'unbridled consumption.’

Fenner told The Australian newspaper that 'homo sapiens will become extinct, perhaps within 100 years.'

'A lot of other animals will, too,' he added.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

I don`t necessarily believe that the human race will become totally extinct,though I do that many more animals will.

Humanity is a cancer to this World!

As a Kenyan ranger said:You may as well go to a beauty salon+gather nail clippings,or a barber's shop+gather hair-rhino horn is mostly keratin.

The only thing that may save the rhino-and this i'm unspeakably sad to sad to say-is mandatory de-horning at a young age-at least the animal will still be alive in the wild(albeit without its trademark) but that Is the drawcard-the horn.

It is sickeningly sad,it really is,and infuriating.As infuriating-how the syndicates use people who are unemployed and may indeed be facing hunger,along with their children-and propably see poaching as the only way to earn an income-because of human nature-there will always be those who would take up such a disgraceful way to earn a living.

I think seeing hornless rhino's in future may yet be the one and only way we Are going to be able to see LIVE rhino's in future.Making the best of a horribly bad situation-that will carry on and on till there are none left.

As to gay rights,eg to be recognised as a married couple,i feel gay people should have every right heterosexuals have-because to me,a true marriage is in the heart,anyway-no piece of paper or ring makes a person stay with you,or you with him/her.However,at least for humans it does'nt make the difference between life and death,though i can imagine it must hurt to not have your union recognised officially,if you should want it to be,even just for tax or medical insurance purposes.I'm sure everyone is aware of how many heterosexual couples stay together/get married in the 1st place,for reasons Other than pure love

Back to the rhino's plight,there are organisations such as Avaaz that has achieved a lot on various issues-especially if a high profile celeb is willing to put their name to the cause-still,even if China had,for instance,to officially ban the use of horn,and other substances that is the direct cause of death for an animal,especially endangered species-the base of operations would just move.
Dehorning is the only thing that can preserve the rhino for future generations,imo-i just don't see how anything else can work.At least done by a veterinary surgeon,they won't suffer,and live on.

reply to post by Bedlam


I get your point, and understand the OP's frustration at having not garnered the attention he wanted to being to this topic.

However, I've seen it getting more attention recently. As someone said they have tried poisoning the horns to make them useless to poachers, and also cutting them off while the beast is anaesthetised. Sadly, the documentary I saw had the rhino they were trying to save by cutting the horn off it in safety, die anyway. The stress and the anaesthetic were too much.

Without bringing these topics to the attention of the otherwise unconcerned public, it will remain a trade that, like elephant tusks, causes so much damage to a creature we could help, if only we were made aware.

I find it absolutely disgusting that so much of humanity is still mired in barbaric practices from a millennia ago.. evolve you brainless retarded morons, evolve.

reply to post by muzzleflash


What has the USA got to do with the price of rhino horns to gay men in Africa?

Half of your posts here I'm 100% in agreement with.

the other half, not so much...

reply to post by muzzleflash


Well, at least when it comes to lesbians in SA, if the corrective raping doesn't fix them and make them normal again, then stabbings and disfiguration should work to stop them being gay.

But when it's planet America, those rhinos and gay people are silly and unimportant, considering bedlams comments on the insignificance of ugly animals, and yours regarding treating people equally under all aspects of society.

And the award for strangest thread title of the day goes to:

"My Choice: Gay Rights or Save the Rhino,"

Seriously though, if the Rhino were the only one....there are so many animals killed for bogus remedies and reasons. I mean, I'm no PETA bleeding heart...I hunted as a youth, but we USED as much as we could of an animal when we did so...fur for clothing, meat for food, even antlers to hold things, etc. Killing for sport or for making a buck though (other than for food) is just sickening.

reply to post by Gazrok


Thanks Gazrok! I knew it would create some interest and it did, but mostly not what I was intending, unfortunately for me, my thread and the Rhinos'.

I would however like thank everyone who has contributed with meaningful replies which added value to my thread and to those others who couldn't get past the word "gay" I and the Rhino thank you for all your effort, you achieved what you wanted and got the thread moved from "Fragile Earth" where it belonged to "General Off Topic Chit-Chat!

I, seriously, do agree but the difference between Rhino and most other animals being killed for sport is in the numbers! In the not too very distant future Rhinos' will only live on in film and in memory unless drastic action is taken and if when someone speaks up about the issue others don't just poopoo it and attempt to make jolly out of a very sad situation! I was making an attempt at bringing this to the attention of others and in the end others attempted to make a fool of me and they sort of succeeded in their own minds! I sincerely hope that in ten or twenty years time their children will still have the opportunity to see a live Rhino, not in the zoo but in the wild, in Africa! Vain hope probably but maybe, just maybe it can happen!

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by OpenEars123
Life sentences for poachers
Compulsory education to teach children not to be prejudice

S&F for an important post

How about, instead of creating a huge government based on arresting or forcibly educating everyone, we could just address the glaring economic and cultural issues that led to the poaching to begin with, thus preventing it before it happens?

And how about we merely mind our own business more often, rather than rely on the government to brainwash everyone into agreeing with whatever?

Yeah, my plans sound way better. And way cheaper for the tax payer!

Actually I agree with you. I shouldn't have used the word compulsory, because I too am against all brainwashing.

I should have said 'introducing' anti prejudice studies in schools, i.e as in a subject to teach us to be better people.

I'm not sure it's possible to brainwash someone into being anti-prejudice, but it is very easy to do the opposite.

Bottom line, I am anti any animal cruelty 'and' anti-prejudice with regards to race and sexuality.

reply to post by OpenEars123


One thing I would like to point out is that the poachers are not local/indigenous South Africans who are "earning money" via the trade in Rhino Horn. Most of the poachers are crossing the border into South Africa from Mozambique! I am not saying that the poachers are solely Mozambican as they could be from any nation. The Kruger National Park shares a 400km long border with Mozambique which is not easy to patrol or guard! Helicopters are in use and drones have recently been added to the arsenal which is already in use in an attempt to save these magnificent beasts from a very cruel and a VERY uneccessary death!

We are temporary custodians of this planet, it is our job not to just live on it, use and abuse it as we see fit, we are not owners! It might not matter to us right now but what will we say to future generations when they ask us "Why, why didn't you make sure that this never happened? Why did you let them kill all the Elephants, the Rhino, etc, etc, etc?" What will you tell your grandchildren?

Sorry! But I had to!
And this image is one of the least offensive! Now let's joke about it!

reply to post by wiser3


Very disturbing. People need to be educated before this type of thing will stop and even then...humans have an ugly side. I am glad they will start using drones to catch poachers. Now that is a great use for drones. I also read yesterday on another topic the Church of England is considering granting gay marriage to parishes that are sympathetic. They compared it to the churches earlier decision to allow folk that had been divorced to marry in church. That was once forbidden also but they passed a decree allowing "sympathetic" churches to marry the divorcees. Today, everyone's a divorcee and they can all marry in almost any church. They didn't change any church doctrine in the process, they just lightened up on enforcing "the rules."

reply to post by pacifier2012

So you get upset at other peoples opinions??? Do you regard that as intolerance or does intolerance only apply to those opposed to homosexuality rather than those for it?

Usually people get offended when other people want to oppress them for no reason.....

No... really... what the hell does the title of this thread mean?

"Gay rights or save the rhino"?

Is that a choice? SAVE THE RHINO MAN! Who cares about gay rights when the rhino is at stake!

Seriously... what does it mean?

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


If you had bothered to read my first post properly you would have seen that I said I would choose to save the Rhino over gay rights! BUT NO NO-ONE READS PAST THE WORD "GAY"!


THIS IS WHAT I SAID "If I had to choose between supporting gay rights and choosing to save the Rhino I would choose Rhino!"



And are you seriously trying to tell me that if had chosen to give the thread a different title eg. "The choice is ours: We must save the Rhino!" you would have even bothered to read OR post a reply on the thread? I doubt it very much!

I am also sure that I am not the first person and will not be the last person on ATS to choose a title which was aimed a provoking a response! All you have done is to question is the thread title! I thank you for adding so much of value to the thread!