The Unforgiveable Sin

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I think I have much more reason to hold my beliefs than you have to hold yours. Prove me wrong. Show me what I'm missing here.

That's not how logic works. You can't shift the burden of proof. It's your burden to prove your assertion true, not someone elses's burden to prove an arbitrary statement false.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That's not how logic works. You can't shift the burden of proof. It's your burden to prove your assertion true, not someone elses's burden to prove an arbitrary statement false.

Are you telling me you can't find anything wrong with what I said?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I think I have much more reason to hold my beliefs than you have to hold yours. Prove me wrong. Show me what I'm missing here.

you are missing 'The reality'!!

You cannot recreate reality, you can only cover it up with self induced illusions or mass hallucinogens till the reality hits hard!!

If what you believe is true and we die and just rot away then i am in no way worst off,
however if death is not the end and my reality is the reality then you'l be in trouble.

The reality is that you have a sense of justice while the world is unjust, if there is no Judgement day then its not harmonious(dissonace) with your sense of justice. I am in harmony with my own sense of justice and my belief.

If you believe in absolute justice for everyone then you need to believe in Judgement day. Otherwise a guy who tortured a dog to death did nothing wrong by law!
If everyone is not accountable for their actions then are we an error in the evolution of the universe? Doesnt our behaviour falls under a law of action n reaction of some kind?

reply to post by logical7

Originally posted by logical7

not true!!, a drug addict is a slave of his addiction/desire.
A liar is a slave of his desire to be comfortable and take shortcuts.
A student who cheats is a slave to the desire to pass.
Letting desires run amok is a sure way to do every wrong that can be done.

It's not slavery if you WANT to do it. Slavery is being bound to another, having to put what YOU want to do aside to do what ANOTHER wants you to do...

This is like claiming consensual sex is rape, it isn't....

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Have you ever heard of the Law of Attraction? It's not some spell or magic trick like everyone says...it's just a psychological trick

yes i know it, read 'The Secret'
its sure a psychological trick,
but unless you can attract 'immortality' by that law, you are still bound to a deadly reality.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by logical7

 

Originally posted by logical7

not true!!, a drug addict is a slave of his addiction/desire.
A liar is a slave of his desire to be comfortable and take shortcuts.
A student who cheats is a slave to the desire to pass.
Letting desires run amok is a sure way to do every wrong that can be done.

It's not slavery if you WANT to do it. Slavery is being bound to another, having to put what YOU want to do aside to do what ANOTHER wants you to do...

This is like claiming consensual sex is rape, it isn't....

then in a consensual dominant/submissive relationship. The submissive is not a slave. Uh?

Giving in to desire when knowing its wrong is being a slave to desire.

A rapist is a slave of his desire to humilate/abuse/dominate the victim when knowing its wrong is not enough to stop him.
Not all desires are wrong but when fulfilment of desires is done even when its objectively wrong, then that person is a slave.

reply to post by logical7

yes i know it, read 'The Secret'
its sure a psychological trick,
but unless you can attract 'immortality' by that law, you are still bound to a deadly reality.

I've made my thoughts on immortality crystal clear:

Because no thing is meant to last forever. The universe must always remain in motion to maintain balance, and motion means change. When you stay still for too long, you forget that you're supposed to move, and you forget why. And when that happens...you forget why you live. Just like having too much money demeans the value of money, or having too much sex desensitizes the sensations of sex. Too much food undermines the taste, the flavor. And too much life takes away the value of being alive.

I don't want to forget what it is to live. That's why I don't want to live forever. That's why immortality is a curse. When the novelty is gone, when everything has been seen or said or heard or done three or four times already, all that's left is death. The one thing you can't have. The eternal sleep that erases everything and lets you see the world through fresh eyes.

I don't want to forget. I want to keep refreshing, keep seeing the world anew. I don't want to know everything about life. I want to have new mysteries, new thrills and challenges, new motivations to make me look forward to each dawn as eagerly as the last. And when it's over, I'll start again in a new body and a new path. There's no better way to spend eternity. What's the point, otherwise? Do you have a better plan?

Only a fool would want to live forever. Like I said, you don't know what you're asking for.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I know exactly what i want, i also know that i am not running the show.

And when it's over, I'll start again in a new body and a new path.

who is the 'I'
when you die the 'I' is gone. If you do get a new body then it will be the same to you as now. You will be a new 'I'
You are talking about recycling. A plastic bottle into a toothbrush, that has nothing to do with keeping the 'I' its just conservation of matter and energy.
I am talking about intangible things like justice. For that the 'I' should remain.

So tell me,
do you believe in absolute justice?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by logical7

 

“Power, true power, comes from within. Not without."

― Sherrilyn Kenyon, Infinity

Indeed.

AI, if you believe you are in control all the time, you will be reminded by events in your lifetime that you are not! Its a mercy from God to bring people back.

Part of having control is sharing it with others.

edit on 8-4-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Not 100% true. You can come to a place where the inside and outside is close to 100% sync/symbiosis and the power comes both from within and without or from the whole that is both inside and outside. You seek within to control the inside to connect to everything outside not just the local 3D outside. The inside and outside are not separate but one single whole. The inside is nothing without the outside but the outside could get on almost the same without one of the insides.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Have you ever heard of the Law of Attraction? It's not some spell or magic trick like everyone says...it's just a psychological trick

yes i know it, read 'The Secret'
its sure a psychological trick,
but unless you can attract 'immortality' by that law, you are still bound to a deadly reality.

You are both right. Law of attraction is a subset of synchronicity. The mysterious ways that god does it's work. But AfterInfinity see it from the individuals point of view where the ego individual person changes what is around him/her. That is the individual pushing the outside while some people experiance the outside guiding the individual instead and the individual do not need to push much at all but just follow the guiding to get what the individual need. Prayer is a variant of the ego individual person trying to change the whole/what is.

reply to post by LittleByLittle


And it works, doesn't it? We each control our destiny through our interactions with the world. We can't determine what the world will do with us, but we can sure as hell determine what we'll do with the world.

reply to post by logical7

when a person is a slave of desires and denies God, then he/she lives with cognitive dissonance and that diminishes sentinence and slowly the only way to make peace is go on auto-pilot/confirmity just like cattles. Maybe even worst than cattles as they at least can get herded by a shepherd.

Really? I see a lot of mindless cattle following a shepherd here:



And, here:



When a person becomes a slave to what cannot possibly be known, it diminishes sentinence and slowly the only way to make peace is go on auto-pilot/confirmity just like cattles. Maybe even worst than cattles as they at least can get herded by a shepherd.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

And it works, doesn't it?

The things I want are pretty big and not ego related so they take a lot of time to fix but I have received the tools to do my part. If you want things for the singular you then guiding is not for you from my point of view at least not at this time. On that road you will receive much but the responsability that follows is not for all souls.

reply to post by jiggerj


No Jiggerj,
thats not mindless, its harmonising oneself under one supreme being, no one is above anyone, all are equal under one Creator and they are judged by Him not by riches or colour of skin but by the goodness in them.
Sentinence is not diminished, its broadened, they see themselves as a part of a Whole, part of humanity and so show more compassion.

It has been found in research that theists volunteer much more for community works and helping others than atheists.
Atheists see themselves as self-sufficient and expect others to also take care of themselves(not all atheists)

you tell me Jiggerj, do you feel connected to others? How and why? And how much willing you will be to help someone if it will not give you any benefit in return maybe even a loss of some time and energy.(i just want to know, not prejudging anything)

No Jiggerj, thats not mindless, its harmonising oneself under one supreme being,

reply to post by logical7


I kneel to no one. This is my life (as your life is yours) and I will live it as ***I*** see fit. I am the judge of my mistakes, and how I will make up for them.

all are equal under one Creator and they are judged by Him not by riches or colour of skin but by the goodness in them.

All are equal in the brotherhood of man. I can't expect to have rights and freedoms if I take them away from others. I need no god for this understanding. I have no regrets when it comes to hating those that oppress, murder, or deprive others for their own selfish needs. I am human - I come equipped with hate as much as I am equipped with love. To deny one emotion is to deny my own identity.

Sentinence is not diminished, its broadened, they see themselves as a part of a Whole, part of humanity and so show more compassion.

Where do you find this show of more compassion in being a part of a whole? I see sheer ignorant hatred being taught and passed on from one generation to the next. I see the domination of women. I see religions telling us that we are imperfect, sinners, and that we are as stupid as a flock of sheep that couldn't survive without a shepherd.

It has been found in research that theists volunteer much more for community works and helping others than atheists.

There are (what?) maybe twenty million theists for every atheist? The religious volunteer their time not because they are religious, but because they are good people. I'd really like to know if these religious volunteers found out today that there is no god, would they stop caring and volunteering? I don't think so. I think they would keep right on helping.

And how much willing you will be to help someone if it will not give you any benefit in return maybe even a loss of some time and energy.(i just want to know, not prejudging anything)

Until my health fell apart I donated some of my time every day to driving veterans to doctor's appointments, food shopping, and to visit family. I asked for no money for gas, and I was quite content to sit in my car and read a book while they did what they needed to do.

Even today I give smokes and loose change to those who need it, as long as they don't abuse my charity (yes, I can say no to some). I LIKE helping others. It makes me feel good because it's what I want to do, not what I feel I have to do to earn points to get into some imaginary heaven.

you tell me Jiggerj, do you feel connected to others? How and why?

No, I don't feel connected. I am me. I don't need others to define me. I will make compromises so that everyone gets what they need, but that MUST include me. I WILL NOT sacrifice any part of me - my beliefs, opinions, my mental, physical, and emotional health - so that others can feel good about themselves and leave me with nothing.

This is what religion wants - sacrifice - a total surrender of your humanity for their belief system. This is MY life, and no one is going to tell me how to live it.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity


I am not a slave - that's the point. I embrace my freedom to the point that I am my own shepherd. I require no god, desire no god, seek no god for my happiness. I am the progenitor of my fortune, and I am the architect of my destiny.

Your destiny is to be in the Kingdom, after correction and chastisement, and you are NOT the architect of it. Tell me, Afterinfinity, if you need and desire no god/God, why are you seen so often on threads of this type?

The more I read the words of the worshipers, the much less I could ever think that a monotheistic religion written by the hands of man, or worse, man's controller could aid me in my spiritual journey.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

That's not how logic works. You can't shift the burden of proof. It's your burden to prove your assertion true, not someone elses's burden to prove an arbitrary statement false.

Are you telling me you can't find anything wrong with what I said?

No, I said it's not other's burden to prove your assertions false, it's your burden to prove them true.

That's how logic works. Attempting to make others prove your claims false without you first providing your premise/facts/argument for them being true is called "shifting the burden of proof".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
I don't know, the only unforgivable sin I see in most people - is being unforgiving.

Well, being unforgiving is a sin but it's certainly not unforgivable. If that were the case no one could be saved.

I dunno .. CirqueDeTruth kinda has a point. When we pray the 'Our Father' we say 'forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us'. That kinda implies that we have to forgive others in order to be forgiven ourselves. And we actually say those words to God .. asking for that.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit .. yes, unforgiveable.
But I'm thinking that maybe being unforgiving is also unforgiveable.
(If you want to get technical about it ... )

(and yes yes I know .. Jesus said only one sin was unforgiveable ... but I do think CirgueDeTruth has a point)

reply to post by FlyersFan


Well, the obvious implication in Christ's message is that all other sins besides blasphemy of the spirit are forgiveable if one asks to be forgiven and is repentant. God doesn't forgive without us asking or repenting.