Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Christ's comment about after the tribulation of those days He was speaking about His return to set foot on Earth.

They occur at the same time. There is no Scripture for a third coming.

Friend, you believe a man's teaching that came from his head, not God. "Sola Scriptura" was thought up by Martin Luther. There is more to God's revelation than is written in Holy Scripture. Even Holy Scripture says this, not everything Jesus said or did is written down.

Read 1 Cor 12:28, prophecy is listed second. And the Nicene Creed (325), remember these words: "who has spoken through the prophets." It is true, God speaks to every generation. God has revealed there are three comings, the thrid coming is the Final Judgment.

Jesus in current prophecy and to saints of old, speaks of His "middle coming." There will be many signs, wonders and charisms given. Jesus isn't coming though in His person to the earth, it is a spiritual coming this "middle coming." The Millennium as it is sometimes called, doesn't mean it is literal, however long it is, God's 7th Day, Jesus will reign in all hearts.

St. Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153):

"We know that there are three comings of the Lord. The third lies between the other two. It is invisible, while the other two are visible. In the first coming, He was seen on earth, dwelling among men; He himself testifies that they saw Him and hated Him. In the final coming, 'all flesh will see the salvation of our God, and they will look upon Him Whom they pierced.' The intermediate coming is a hidden one; in it only the elect see the Lord within their own selves, and they are saved. In His first coming Our Lord came in our flesh and in our weakness; in this middle coming, He is our rest and consolation."

reply to post by colbe


That doctrine would make the angel who spoke to the disciples at Christ's ascention a liar. He said Jesus would return in like manner as they saw Him ascend, which was in bodily form. 18 OT books give prominence to the Messiah ruling and reigning on Earth and specifically that when His feet touch the mount of olives it will split in two.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by BobAthome

 

There can only be one God in Christianity. Polytheism and trinitarianism is not Christianity.

Sorry, bub, but by definition, Christianity is a trinitarian religion. You anti-trinitarians are not Christians, you're Sabellianists, a different religion entirely.

The fact that the Bible teaches one God and adds nothing about multiple gods/persons, is proof against you.

Trinitarians don't disagree with that. Good to know we're finally on the same page.

edit on 23-7-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Last time I checked, trinitarian's still believe the non-Biblical doctrine that God is three persons.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

No it doesn't. First of all the rapture is a reward for faithfulness, not a reward for salvation. Secondly, if you do not accept a rapture and a subsequent 2nd coming of Christ to Earth you have two piles of verses that are contradictory.

edit on 22-7-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

As I said, there is no third coming, no second chances.

Well then there isn't anything to argue about. There isn't a third coming where Jesus sets foot on Earth. There is only one future event where He comes and sets foot on Earth.

Take care.

Your pre-trib rapture, where God comes for some of His people, is at least 1/2 of a coming.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by BobAthome

 

Trinitarians believe in one God, as well, and reject multiple Gods

I would disagree when they are able to have conversations with each other.

Originally posted by adjensen
However, that isn't the point -- for over 1,500 years, to be a Christian has meant believing in the creeds of Christianity, and your johnny-come-lately cult can't whisk in here in the last 20 years and lay claim to the term Christianity by rejecting the beliefs that define who a Christian is and what they believe.

There was no full teaching on your trinity until Tertullian after 200AD. It is not found in the Bible. Christianity, since it's beginning has taught only that God is one and Jesus is the one God manifest in flesh, which is Modalism.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
ZOMG, I guess I have to spell out what Trinitarianism is.

It's the belief that God plays 3 roles, and has 3 functions. Not that he is 3 different Gods, he just has 3 roles he plays.

This is plainly made clear in Philipians 2:5-7, Revelation 1:9-18, Isaiah 42-50.

The whole omnipresent thing means he isn't stuck in just one place, he is literally everywhere.

And ofcourse lets not forget the whole discourse with Jesus and Nicodemus and John the Baptist's witness of Christ in John 3 when Jesus said he came from above and no one has ever ascended or descended but the Son of Man who is in heaven, and then John the Baptist goes on to say "he who is from above, is above all"

So for the love of God, read your bibles, pray for revelation and stop complaining about things that do not matter, for we all believe there is only 1 God and this is a non issue except to those who choose to make it an issue!

As I have said before, you are a partial Modalist. Different roles is what Modalists teach.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

That doctrine would make the angel who spoke to the disciples at Christ's ascention a liar. He said Jesus would return in like manner as they saw Him ascend, which was in bodily form. 18 OT books give prominence to the Messiah ruling and reigning on Earth and specifically that when His feet touch the mount of olives it will split in two.

NTT, I like your kind, civil replies. It keeps the discussion open. everyone appreciates.

The question is what "return" are the angels referring to in speaking to the Apostles. Jesus is NOT coming on
the clouds in His person until the Final Judgment. When the last trump is blown and the dead shall arise.

The world right now is near the end of the Sixth Day Jesus is coming soon with great signs BUT not in His
physical person to the earth. We'll see these beginning signs of the divine during the Great Tribulation
but absolutely, the Remnant will see and be given gifts, charisms during the 7th Day. Some people call it
the Millennium. In Catholic prophecy the same is called the Era of Peace.

You called it "doctrine", Prophecy repeats much about this, we can know. This particular prophet is anonymous
but this person has a special spiritual director. He is Monsignor Esseff whose spiritual director was the famous stigmatist Padre Pio AND Monsignor Esseff was spiritual director to Mother Teresa. Look at the pic at the link.

Posting one of the prophecies about Jesus' middle coming. And notice at the end, the word "final." Our Lord speaks of beginning signs and wonders during the Great Tribulation (end 6th Day), major gifts and signs during the Millennial reign (7th Day) and mention of His Final coming.

p.s. You know I post much about the Great Warning, Protestants hear it called the "awakening" in their messages. This is the 2nd Pentecost, a truly divine wonder. Only God can show us every moment of our
lives.

+ + +

www.locutions.org...

October 12, 2013

. Signs and Wonders

The Coming Visitation of Jesus

Jesus

Obviously, I will NOT come in the flesh, because this is how I came the first time. Also, I will NOT come in glory when every eye will see and all will be gathered together by the angels. How then will I come? I will come in signs and wonders, in great powers and in miracles that have never been witnessed before. I will come in graces of massive conversions, massive both in their extraordinary nature and in the numbers who will be touched.
These miracles and conversions will be beginning signs. They will begin immediately and will prepare the world for the greater events. These will be external and internal experiences. The external will be seen by all in a given part of the world and will lead to many conversions. The internal experiences will be worldwide, but of course, hidden from view because they will take place within the person’s heart. However, many will speak of their experiences. In this way they, too, will become external. All of these are NOT the FINAL gift but will lead up to and will prepare for the great gift of my coming. ...




final

Oops, not the year 2013, I meant to type October 12, 2012 on the date the excerpt of the prophecy I just posted.

sorry,

colbe

reply to post by truejew


No. What is meant by a "coming", or what people in yesteryear called an "advent" as in the 2nd advent of Christ, is a coming to Earth. A physical presence, like the first advent of Christ in 2 BC. To be here with the world in a physical, tangible manner. With the verses on the rapture the world never sees Him and He never sets his feet on Earth. He comes to the heavens, gathers His bride, and returns to heaven for the marriage supper and judgment of works for crowns.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by BobAthome

 

There can only be one God in Christianity. Polytheism and trinitarianism is not Christianity.

Sorry, bub, but by definition, Christianity is a trinitarian religion. You anti-trinitarians are not Christians, you're Sabellianists, a different religion entirely.

The fact that the Bible teaches one God and adds nothing about multiple gods/persons, is proof against you.

Trinitarians don't disagree with that. Good to know we're finally on the same page.

edit on 23-7-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Last time I checked, trinitarian's still believe the non-Biblical doctrine that God is three persons.

No, one God who exists as three persons. He is an infinite, eternal Deity who isn't restrained by the laws of physics like we in the flesh are. We call God "Him", not "Them".

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by BobAthome

 

Trinitarians believe in one God, as well, and reject multiple Gods

I would disagree when they are able to have conversations with each other.

Different persons of a single triune God could indeed have separate wills and separate voices, as opposed to your view, which has one god having conversations and arguments with himself out loud. Yep, makes total sense.

Originally posted by adjensen
However, that isn't the point -- for over 1,500 years, to be a Christian has meant believing in the creeds of Christianity, and your johnny-come-lately cult can't whisk in here in the last 20 years and lay claim to the term Christianity by rejecting the beliefs that define who a Christian is and what they believe.

There was no full teaching on your trinity until Tertullian after 200AD. It is not found in the Bible. Christianity, since it's beginning has taught only that God is one and Jesus is the one God manifest in flesh, which is Modalism.

I wrote up a thread the other day showing how the "Jesus Only" non-Trinitarian belief turns the Bible into a mess when one attempts to "work back" to that position, but I didn't bother posting it, because the atheists would just respond "who cares, it's all rubbish", Trinitarians would respond "well, of course" and the only person who could possibly benefit from it, you, lacks sufficient independent thought to even understand the problem.

I found this video interesting. Based on the teaching of Dr. Michael Brown.

Another interesting thing is:

Joshua 5:13-15

13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, “Are You for us or for our adversaries?”

14 So He said, “No, but as Commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.”

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped, and said to Him, “What does my Lord say to His servant?”

15 Then the Commander of the Lord’s army said to Joshua, “Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy.” And Joshua did so


If that wasn't God Joshua was worshipping then under the law Joshua Ben-Nun should have been stoned to death.

A dilemma indeed.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


And if that "holy" entity Joshua spoke to didn't rebuke him for worshipping him if he was not the Lord then that would make him an evil entity.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by BobAthome

 

There can only be one God in Christianity. Polytheism and trinitarianism is not Christianity.

Sorry, bub, but by definition, Christianity is a trinitarian religion. You anti-trinitarians are not Christians, you're Sabellianists, a different religion entirely.

The fact that the Bible teaches one God and adds nothing about multiple gods/persons, is proof against you.

Trinitarians don't disagree with that. Good to know we're finally on the same page.

edit on 23-7-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Last time I checked, trinitarian's still believe the non-Biblical doctrine that God is three persons.

No, one God who exists as three persons. He is an infinite, eternal Deity who isn't restrained by the laws of physics like we in the flesh are. We call God "Him", not "Them".

Exactly what I said that you believe. Although, in the case of Genesis 1:26, you do call God a "them".

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by BobAthome

 

Different persons of a single triune God could indeed have separate wills and separate voices, as opposed to your view, which has one god having conversations and arguments with himself out loud. Yep, makes total sense.

God beings with separate wills and voices is separate gods. Modalism does not have one God who has conversations with Himself as you claim. We have one God and one man having conversations with each other.

reply to post by truejew


No, in Genesis 1:26 you have a single entity God, who speaks in a plural fashion.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by BobAthome

 

Different persons of a single triune God could indeed have separate wills and separate voices, as opposed to your view, which has one god having conversations and arguments with himself out loud. Yep, makes total sense.

God beings with separate wills and voices is separate gods.

No, it is not.

Modalism does not have one God who has conversations with Himself as you claim. We have one God and one man having conversations with each other.

Then you reject the divinity of Christ and proclaim yourself an Arian.

You won't watch it (and if you did, you wouldn't understand it,) but LoneWolf's video does a good job of demonstrating that, even in the Old Testament, there are three distinct persons in the triune God, and rejecting that notion requires twisting or revision of scripture, just as you do with the New Testament.

reply to post by adjensen


LMAO! When reading what he said about the conversation between the Father and His Son Jesus was a conversation between God and "a man" my initial reaction was:

"Well, hello Arius, welcome back."

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I looked at the other videos made by the guy who made LoneWolf's, and he has a pretty good one about the trinity (directed against Unitarians, but still relevant.)

reply to post by adjensen


I've said this for a very long time. Anyone who has a background in advance mathematics doesn't struggle at all with the concept of three entirely different numbers being equal, if all three are infinite numbers.