Originally posted by JuniorDisco
NY Times says you're wrong. 46 stoppages and 27 fines in the first month:
It well publicized that some examples would be made in the first year and they were, but - that was then.
I am trying to not get dragged too deeply into this because I am obviously unable to remain neutral- my daughter lives next to one of those No Go
zones on one of those links. She has to witness a lot of scary stuff, and I have to worry about her.
But I wonder, even if you do not believe the state of things here coming from those that live it, why do you feel they should be able to break laws
(like covering the identity in public) that the others in this country cannot? I find that curious.
You realise that this boilerplate you're spouting about them all being on benefit is standard racist nonsense?
What I realize is that you take what I say and twist it as if it were standard racist nonsense. Exactly the way the guy in another thread has been
accusing me of being an extreme liberal Socialist-Communist, and the other thread where another has called me an Islamist apologetic
I said religion has nothing to do with the clash in France between french and arabs, I explained it as a deep intertwined history between
these peoples, culture clashes and cultural identity struggles with the youth of immigrants. I specifically said I was NOT refering to Muslim
(though eventually I think they may be indoctrinated by such groups that will take advantage of these conflicts).
.... and yet you still characterize me as talking about fanatic muslims burning Bibles?
These stats have been well published everywhere, though the latest dates of studies are from before the flood of immigrants from countries like Egypt
and Syria in turmoil. So we can be sure they are too low.
But just from Wikipedia alone-
Au total, immigrés (5,3 millions) et descendants direct d'immigrés (6,7 millions) sont, selon la définition de l'Insee, au nombre de 12
millions en 2008, soit 19 % de la population
D'autre part, 30 % de la population métropolitaine âgée de 18 à 50 ans est soit née hors de la métropole soit née d'au moins un parent né hors
de la metropole
Several were exactly the "young second generation arabs" you were talking about. And do you really believe that a majority of them don't have legal
jobs? Again I'd be amazed if you can find a source for that beyond your own bitterness.
Apparently they were not the ones I am talking about.
I have had to work next to one of these No Go zones. I got to know a number of the "racaille" there that I am talking about. -None of them had real
jobs, although they drove luxury cars. For the most part they were making a living selling drugs and contraband. They do not hide this fact- even the
police know who is dealing what, but since the police cannot enter those areas, they can brag about it openly without fear of trouble.
Twice I walked out the back at night to find myself in the middle of deals between gangs happening in the alley;
When they had a marriage in the neighborhood, it was traditional that they shoot off guns- and there was always a few Kalichinikovs- those are illegal
in this country. It is only through illegal activities that one can get them.
Also, you seem to be conflating second generation arabs with immigrants. You realise that someone born in France and with French citizenship is not an
Yeah, I used the words "second generation immigrants", and it is not correct. I am talking of people born in France.
Though they say they are not french (surely if you've been here you saw the slogan "Nique les français"? That is written and said by people who are
) . I think it is important to stress that they are children of immigrants, because I think that is probably the key source of
their psychological trouble with identity and culture.
My own children are in the same position, one of them was even born in the US and does not have french nationality. He is called the american by
everyone, and yet he has no memory or knowledge of the US- all he is told here is "you are not one of us". I am compassionate to the struggle of these
My kids have had less trouble because of the different past relations between these peoples, and the similarities of our cultures.
But it is not because I am sympathetic that I can condone the way it is expressed, or pretend it isn't happening.
Reading this again, I realize I didn't get around to pulling up links for "proof" (not that any would convince you) . I guess I don't feel like
trying. I welcome you to continue believing there is a huge conspiracy, to make the world think that France has struggles within concerning it's
edit on 4-4-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)