Islam v. Christian thought

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I utterly reject the Islamophobic placard you are trying to hang round my neck. As a matter of fact, I am currently doing what little I can (and it is little enough) to stop Muslims being vilified and attacked by sectarian mobs in my own country.

Now:

So that buries the myth that [female circumcision is] an Islamic thing. Of course, some Islamic teachers may foolishly teach it as a religious duty, but many Muslim leaders are trying to get this banned.

Did I say it was an Islamic thing? I did not. However, as you yourself cannot help but admit, many Muslim authorities clearly think it is. That, I'm afraid, is the point, since no other religion supports its practice.

A little footnote after all those claims against muslim treatment of their women... doesn't mean anything.

Perhaps not to some ignorant person with a one-sided obsession on the subject. I have travelled widely and while I have been disgusted by some of what I have seen and heard concerning the treatment of Muslim women in the Middle East and elsewhere, I have also met Muslims from India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Maldives, Singapore and elsewhere—men and women alike—who are humane, modern and liberated in their attitudes to women, sex and 'gender'. Take your tar-brush elsewhere. That stuff won't stick to me.

reply to post by Hopechest


The quran calls for the death of all "kafirs"

Whereas the last request for death in the bible was the destruction of the Amalokites (men, women and children) - Somebody correct me if the bible calls for the death of non-believers too (other than that of the Amalokites)

In short, the Quran incites people to fight and kill in order to convert people and make sure that Islam is the only religion.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Perhaps we are lucky that we shall not live long enough to see it.

reply to post by Hopechest

You've received a few links already - but if you're sincerely interested in understanding the differences in worldviews, you probably shouldn't rely on links to sources written from a neutral or the Christian points of view about the Muslim point of view

Try going to the source - read what real people have to say from their perspective - then make your own comparisons

Try reading some blogs - written by actual Muslims
chillyoislamyo.com...
mooslim.com...
theislamicist.wordpress.com...
www.happymuslimah.com...

Or, if you want to go deeper:
American Muslim Interactive Network
Islamic Philosophy Online
A Quarterly Journal of Islamic Thought & Culture
More...
and even more...

Then just the basics - From the BBC

While there are obviously differences - we are all more the same than different. Some leaning right, others left - pious or sacrilegious, funny or humorless...bitter, fearful, controlling and mean - or generous, loving, tolerant and open to the world

Pick a religion - it's all there no matter where you're looking

Originally posted by Hopechest
How would you say that Islam thought processes are different than Christian ones.

Islam = One God without an incarnation, no Trinity.
Christianity = One God Whose Mercy incarnated as Jesus and Whose Sanctifying Grace manifests as The Holy Spirit.

Islam = an afterlife with an orgy of the senses and human drives (sex, food, etc). Mundane
Christianity = an afterlife with the Beatific Vision (God) being the ultimate. Etherial.

Islam = everyone has to be muslim or be dhimmi (subservants to muslims). Muslim Law is inequal.
*Christianity = your future/your choice, religion not forced. Secular governments and equal rights.
* or at least .. equality for most everyone. Marriage equality is 'getting there'

Islam = burn their 'holy book' or insult Muhammad and you'll have death threats put on your life.
Christianity = burn their 'holy book' or insult Jesus and they'll pray for your soul.

Islam = women are treated like property and can't have equal rights.
*Christianity = women are their own person and should have equal rights.

* Although some christian groups go further in their faith and proclaim that women can't cut their hair or wear pants or be in the same swimming pool with men, etc etc. These 'Holiness' Christians are, overall, few in number

reply to post by Astyanax


I was trying to have myself a glass-half-full kind of day my friend

:-)

but I give - you might just be right about that

reply to post by Hopechest


the differences start from the origin.

In islam God forgave Adam and Eve(no original sin) after they disobeyed and sent them to earth as care taker of earth for a period as a test not as a punishment.
Eve(woman) is not under a curse to suffer child birth and be submissive to man.
Child bearing is respected in islam and a mother is honoured more than father.

The idea of Heaven and Hell is a bit different, Hell is not under the authority of devil.

Jesus pbuh is a prophet, a man like prophets before him and Muhammad pbuh after him.

Trinity is strongly rejected in Qur'an.

The similarities are
Same One God, similar morals and ethics.

reply to post by Astyanax

I utterly reject the Islamophobic placard you are trying to hang round my neck.

That placard has your signature on it. Your words are on record.

Did I say it was an Islamic thing?

Yes you did.
When you said

In Arab society (as in many other societies of the period), women were essentially property, and they were protected as property is protected—meaning, protected against 'theft' by others and entitled to necessary repairs and maintenance. This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting their human rights, their feelings or even their bodies—they could be infibulated, raped (within marriage), impregnated and beaten without their consent, "....


....in response to a statement made by user Darknstormy :

Darknstormy : "One of the last things Mohammed said or wished for was the women to be protected."

You associated that practise with Mohammad...and after I showed you that even Jews and Christians in Africa practise it, you ask me "Did I say it was an Islamic thing?".

I did not. However, as you yourself cannot help but admit, many Muslim authorities clearly think it is. That, I'm afraid, is the point, since no other religion supports its practice.

Like I said earlier....It also happens to be practiced by Christians and Jews in Africa.

The only contemporary examples of Christians practicing FGM are in Africa. As FGM rituals predated the missionaries' work in North Africa, many African tribes continue the practice as a matter of cultural tradition, unrelated to religious belief.

The minority Ethiopian Jewish community (Beta Israel) practice FGM in a non-religious ceremony. It may be performed only by a Jewish woman. Toubia (1995) states that "female circumcision is not even mentioned in any religious text," and that scholars in Africa "would testify that[in Africa traditional and tribal rituals commonly supersede religion".

So lets play fair and club in the Christians and Jews with the Muslims who you claim support this vile practice. Or would you rather special plead for Christians and Jews?

Perhaps not to some ignorant person with a one-sided obsession on the subject.

You brought it up. I addressed it.

reply to post by Hopechest

this may (or may not be) something you are looking for.
servantofthelight.com...

A New Task to Create an Accurate English Translation of the Qur'an has begun, to Monitor its Development CLICK HERE.
Example below:
Islam means"to be free of any evil at all times, without any reference to who the subject and object may be"

and...

The Mancus coin shown in the image were minted in 773-774 C.E endorsed by the Albic (falsely stated Anglo-Saxon) Offa Rex (757-796 C.E.). It was discovered in 1841 C.E., and is discovered near Sheffield in 1841, displayed in the British Museum.
This coin is a simulation in general design, to the Muslim Mancus Dinar in circulation during the eighth century.

The centre text reads
"'Neither there is, nor (ever) shall there be a deity for worship and adoration, save for the One, who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship and adoration, and Muhammad is the Apostle of the One who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship and adoration’,
and the further declaration, engraved around the margin of the coin,
‘Muhammad is the Apostle of the One who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship and adoration, who sent him (Muhammad) with the doctrine and the true belief to prevail over every religion."
Obverse: The centre text reads
"Muhammad is the Apostle of the One who neither is, nor (ever) shall be a deity for worship or adoration", with the name of the Offa Rex written upside down within that text.
The text around the circumference reads
"With the foundation of the One who neither is, nor ever shall be a deity for worship or adoration (Allah).
This (coin) was minted in 157 A.H." (157 A.H. corresponds to 773-774 C.E.).

Read more: Rex Offa of Albien (Britain)

just some of the intresting stuff here, i think it should show you where their (the authors of that site) beliefs are at.

reply to post by Hopechest

monotheistic religions have monotheism in common. the only one God=Lord=Allah. Allah has Aramaic roots. Aramaic was language of Jesus. the word Allah existed even before Islam.
for example Quran says:

"Say, "O People of the Scripture (Christians and Jews), come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]." 3:64

monotheism is the base. those who read Bible, would find Quran familiar speaking of the almighty God.
but Quran criticises trinity issues in christianity. and of course it believes that Jesus was saved by God alive. and he is still alive. and will return. it believes that someone else was Crucified instead of Jesus.

reply to post by Hopechest

Well, people are individuals and think differently regardless of the fact that they may be part of a group.

But if I were to generalize, Id say that the religious of both faiths have a lot in common.

Other than that, Id say that Moslems are more strict with regards to their rules. They take their book as the literal words of God, so if it says that homosexuality is forbidden, that you cant drink etc., they take it seriously etc.

reply to post by Hopechest

So...you want us to do your homework for you?

I'll oblige! I can't be bothered to provide any URL links for you to browse, because, well, if you wanted that, you'd have googled them yourself. I'm not sure about any specific and concrete difference that I can place that delineates Islamic and Christian thought, considering how all the various branches have all these various opinions.
One thing we can all agree on, I guess would be that Christians believe Jesus Christ sacrificed himself to wash away the sins of mankind. While there are various degrees of understanding within Christianity as to what that means for Faith vs Works, I think you can generally agree that while both Islam and Christianity place great importance in Faith and Belief (In God, in Jesus's sacrifice, as the case may be), Islam generally places somewhat greater importance than Christianity does, on Works, or good deeds. While generally Christianity might understand good deeds as a manifestation of their faith, muslims believe the necessity to actively strive to perform good deeds. This is by no means conclusive, however, as there are many Christian groups that consider striving for good works to be equally important.

The problem with Astyanax's initial differentiation is that there is a not insignificant portion of Christianity that is unitarian. And I'm not so sure about his/her assertion that Islam has no concept of Free Will. The Quran states the opposite, and I don't quite agree that God's foreknowledge of events is evidence of a lack of free will, but that is a different topic.
Not quite sure about NeverForget or FlyersFan's understanding of this subject, however.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Yep got to love the secular world. Its the Godless world.

reply to post by Hopechest


Muslim thought; kill those who oppose you, and to all who won't submit to Allah (infidels) must die.

Christian thought; to those who oppose you and hate you, bless them and pray for them, if someone slaps you on one cheek, give them the other cheek also, if someone steals from you, offer them more of your possessions to take.

Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Muslim thought; kill those who oppose you, and to all who won't submit to Allah (infidels) must die.

Christian thought; to those who oppose you and hate you, bless them and pray for them, if someone slaps you on one cheek, give them the other cheek also, if someone steals from you, offer them more of your possessions to take.

Wish all Christians were more Christians then it wouldn't be taking us so much time to conquer the world.

reply to post by godlover25


Thats a fine example of black and white thinking.
It basically begins and ends with "Muslims bad, Christians good".

Originally posted by godlover25
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Muslim thought; kill those who oppose you, and to all who won't submit to Allah (infidels) must die.

Yeah because if you don't submit to the eternal creator and that alone you are worshipping idols... Do you worship a 3 part demigod? Or the One divine creator?

Christian thought; to those who oppose you and hate you, bless them and pray for them, if someone slaps you on one cheek, give them the other cheek also, if someone steals from you, offer them more of your possessions to take.

lol, yeah ok.. Or ring the police and have them charged. Give me a break. It's a shame a lot of you Christians cannot actually practice what you preach.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Yep got to love the secular world. Its the Godless world.

I love a secular rule of law. And a secular rule of law will protect the rights of everyone to worship (or not worship) as they see fit. Having secular rule of law for everyone is the only fair and free rule of law. Any religious law that seeps in .. or is pushed in at the point of a sword or gun .. is a bad law. It will be unfair, unfree, and most likely STUPID.

yo hopechest!
how come you don't participate on your own thread?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Yep got to love the secular world. Its the Godless world.

I love a secular rule of law. And a secular rule of law will protect the rights of everyone to worship (or not worship) as they see fit. Having secular rule of law for everyone is the only fair and free rule of law. Any religious law that seeps in .. or is pushed in at the point of a sword or gun .. is a bad law. It will be unfair, unfree, and most likely STUPID.

do you think Jesus Christ pbuh is going to come and establish secular law?!! I don't know what you would call yourself if you really believe it!!