Islam v. Christian thought

How would you say that Islam thought processes are different than Christian ones. Is there some way that Islamists view the world that is different than how a person of the Christian faith does?

On this same note, what things about these two religions are similar?

I'm trying to understand the major and minor differences between these two for a comparison I'm writing up...thanks.

Try these. The third link is longer and much more thorough.

Crosswalk

www.billmuehlenberg.com...

IJFM
You'll probably want to go back to the IJFM website for Parts 1 and 2. Just click on their archives and search for "worldviews Islam Christianity."

Both religions have their good and bad but people are usually fed bs when it comes to Islam. Just like Christianity, Islam has been infiltrated by corrupt leaders who do not follow the teachings properly. I have seen so-called scholars mislead and mistranslate the Koran on purpose to prove that Islam is the Antichrist also. Be very careful who you listen too (especially Western scholars with Christian backgrounds). They are no different to Muslims trying to convert everyone to Islam There is a plan to destroy Islam so don't be deceived.

Obviously the conflicting account of Jesus is a hot topic. So I think that would be a great place to start though apart from the Jesus being God etc, the two stories are similar. The two bloodlines of Abraham are also something to look at, Mohammed and the 12 Imams are an interesting story. All the Imams apart from Al-Madhi have been assassinated over time, why? Another interesting topic is the Roman's declaring Jesus the Son of God in 325A.D. These are all important to working out the conflicting differences in both religions.. Because Islam see's Jesus as a "Prophet", they see the Christianity story of Jesus as a crime if that's the way to put it.

Those are just a few things to ouch upon.. But don't listen to Western scholar who think they know Islam. I have heard some of the most ridiculous garbage from those people. I have done some study on the Koran and I cannot believe the Islamaphobia in our countries. People only assume and believe what they are told. You should read some of the Koran for yourself and decide for yourself.

reply to post by Hopechest


This site is a pretty good place to start. It has Judaism and other branches of Abrahamic religions, as well.

Since they all have roots from Abraham, my view is that they are more akin to being different sects, rather than being different religions all together. The differences in all the Abrahamic religions is due to the belief/disbelief in a new prophet's arrival, and the interpretation of said prophet's teachings.

Think in order of prophets arrival:
Jews' prophet = Moses
Christians' prophet = Christ
Muslims' prophet = Muhammad

... but then you have other sects that step out from each major branch based on prophet interpretation - Such as Catholic/Baptist.

Also worth noting is that Mormons stand out differently than usual, in that they do not following the teaching of a former prophet. You would think it would go:

Jews follow Moses >
Christians follow Moses and Christ >
Muslims follow Moses, Christ, and Muhammad >
Mormons follow Moses, Christ, Muhammad, and Joseph Smith...

but Mormons don't follow Muhammad - so Mormons are different in that they break out from following the prophet prior to their prophets arrival.

That's all I really know on the differences: "The differences in all the Abrahamic religions is due to the belief/disbelief in a new prophets' arrival, and the interpretation of said prophet's teachings."

Originally posted by Hopechest
I'm trying to understand the major and minor differences between these two for a comparison I'm writing up...thanks.

Hopefully it will be unbiased

Rejection of the Doctrine of the Trinity

This is the principal difference between Muslim and Christian belief. Muhammad was insistent that there is only one God, who has no children and does not share His divinity with anyone. The 'absurdity' of such an idea is frequently expressed in the Koran.

It's worth remembering that Islam originated in a region that served as a kind of buffer between three different cultures. The one most dominant at the time of its emergence was the Byzantine empire, which was Greek-speaking and Christian. In some ways, then, Islam defines itself by the ways it differs from Christianity.

The other two states were Persia to the northeast and Abyssinia to the south. The latter was also Christian, though of a very different kind from the Byzantine, and quite influential along the southern Arabian littoral and the Red Sea coast. The Persian empire was essentially secular and tolerated all faiths, especially Jews who were looked on with disfavour in the Christian lands.

All these cultural influences have left their trace on Islam. Edward Gibbon, author of The Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire, regarded Islam as an outgrowth of Christianity, a version of the Monophysite heresy.

reply to post by Astyanax


Now about your view on Islam, is that something you have read yourself from the teachings or have heard on the news? Because true Islam is very tolerant. The problem is that the leaders of Muslim countries are very similar to Western leaders who come in the name of Christianity yet pledge their allegiances to Secret societies without following the teachings of the bible.

Predestination vs. Free Will

Different branches of Christianity hold varying views on predestination versus free will.

Roman Catholicism teaches that God gives men free will as a gift. The Orthodox and Anglican communions have a more nuanced approach; they state no official doctrine, but in practical terms accept limited free will for humans within a deterministic universe. Luther wrote that there was no free will, and Calvinists turned that idea into the concept of 'election', in which the fates of all people after death are predetermined and already known to God.

Most Protestant churches in the United States have grown from Lutheran or Calvinist roots, but modern American 'consumer Christianity' has tended to veer toward the Catholic position. Americans mostly can't bear the thought that they aren't free to do what they like, so they prefer to embrace free will.

In contrast, there is no free will in Islam. All that is past, present and to come is already known to Allah, and therefore predetermined. This does not, however, prevent Allah from punishing the wicked, even though they have no control over their actions (since they lack free will). Calvinist belief is equivalent to Muslim belief in this regard. Essentially, these are intolerant, eschatological beliefs.

reply to post by DarknStormy

I'm sorry that, after my edit, you've ended up replying to the post below your own! My apologies; you responded very fast.

Now about your view on Islam, is that something you have read yourself from the teachings or have heard on the news? Because true Islam is very tolerant. The problem is that the leaders of Muslim countries are very similar to Western leaders who come in the name of Christianity yet pledge their allegiances to Secret societies without following the teachings of the bible.

My views on Islam were formed thus:

• I was born in a small country where Muslims, mainly but not exclusively Sunnis, form about seven percent of the population. I attended my first Id-ul-Fitr feast as a small boy of four or five years, having been invited along with my parents by the Muslim family who lived across the street from our house. My father worked in the same bank as the head of this family, and they shared a car to work every morning.
  
  
• I attended a prestigious Anglican boys' school in my country, a breeding-ground of prime ministers, bishops, intellectuals and tycoons. Though the school is Anglican, evangelising of any sort was (and remains) strictly forbidden, and the school is (and was) attended by Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims as well as Christians. As we grew into our teens, breaks between class and after-school hangout sessions often became the venue of intense religious discussions and arguments between us. At this time I was a pretty devout Anglican myself, but rapidly outgrowing religion.
  
  
• I have had Muslim friends, worked with Muslim colleagues, and flirted with Muslim girls (entirely possible at the social level of which I'm speaking) all my life.
  
  
• I lived and worked in Arabia for some years at the beginning of this century. Many of my colleagues were Arab, Indian or Iranian Muslims.
  
  
• I first read the Koran around 1985 or so. I have also read many Buddhist, Hindu and Tantric scriptures as well as the Bible and any amount of Christian theology, mysticism and philosophy.
  
  
• I have also read and greatly enjoyed the Thousand Nights and a Night, the travelogues of Ibn Battuta and other famous Muslim travellers, Arab historical accounts of the Crusades and much other secular literature of Islamic origin.
  
  
• I have also read some works by Muslim critics of Islam, such as Ibn Warraq.
  
  
• A Muslim was a guest, along with her husband (an ex-Jehovah's Witness) at my dinner-table just last night.

Now, about your view on Islam...

reply to post by DarknStormy

is that something you have read yourself from the teachings or have heard on the news?

From Muttaqun.com, a web site 'for those who fear Allah'

Why did Allah permit evil, why did Allah swt create beings capable of evil, why, why, why? Well, ask yourself this first: Why did Allah, swt, create (at all)? This is His Choice, and if you don't like it, well, then you wouldn't be here in existence if you had your way, anyway! So let us all examine ourselves and be sure there's not a part of us that is not content with Allah's decision to allow evil at the hands of man.

Concerning your comment on the leaders of Muslim countries: not one of them, not even the absolute monarchs of Saudi Arabia, dares cross the religious leaders of the dominant Islamic sects in their countries. In fact, the Saudis export Wahabism, one of the most fanatical and intolerant sects of Islam, across Asia and the rest of the world.

The greatest fear of any Muslim leader is losing the support of the mullahs, and they will go to great lengths to avoid this.

reply to post by Astyanax


Sound like you have a very good understanding

Me, I have only just started studying the Koran and to be truthful, I think it's a great book. I think people in the west are being duped when it comes to the teachings of Mohammed and our leaders will do anything in their power to demonise the religion. But not only Islam, Christianity also.

Some of the leaders of the Muslim world are not practicing what they preach. The laws that are implemented on women are not part of Islam... One of the last things Mohammed said or wished for was the women to be protected.. I know a few here will laugh at that but its true. So there are some things that even the religious leaders could be guilty of.

I have a keen interest in the eschatology of Islam because it doesn't line up with a Christians viewpoint of an endtimes Antichrist. Both religions speak of pretty much the same thing yet hardcore Christians are 100% certain that Islam is that beast. Well, I am not buying it. The Koran gives everyone a very good description of what this antichrist will be, look like, even some signs to lookout for. Well guess what? I have found a couple of them and they lead straight back to Israel..

Too me the Koran isn't just a warning for Muslims. It's a warning for everyone, just the same as the bible. When Muslims are calling for the Mahdi, they aren't calling for the end of the world, this is another Western mis-interpretation. The Messiah cannot return until the 12th Imam from the line of Mohammed returns. Mahdi is not the antichrist and if people took the time to understand that religion, they would work that out for themselves.

I don't have the experience you do with Muslims, where I come from, there are not a lot of Muslims. But I will try and understand their teachings because I am beginning to believe that they may be riht about a lot of things and I really don't care whether Christians say - Islam is the devil or the can piss higher than a Muslim, the Koran is alot more logical than the bible and I can relate to it.

reply to post by Hopechest

How would you say that Islam thought processes are different than Christian ones.

Islam makes a very strong distinction between God and man.

Christianity blurs the line between God and man... in the sense they believe a man was God or a part of God... or that God became a man and came down to earth. Not too different from hinduism.

reply to post by DarknStormy

As an atheist, I find all religious belief and practice somewhat pernicious.

However, Islam is by far the nastiest of all the great world religions. As Ibn Warraq (referenced earlier) points out, the political philosophy of Islam is totalitarian. 'A thousand years of tyranny,' says a tenth-century Islamic commentator, al-Marwadi, 'are preferable to one night of anarchy'.

For evidence, one has only to read the Koran. It is a literary mess, due to the fact that the verses are not set in the order that Muhammad dictated them, and because Muhammad himself changed his opinions and prescriptions as he grew older, more powerful and more despotic in his rule over his followers. Just like the Bible, only more so, the Koran contradicts itself, appearing to say one thing here and another there. In spite of all this, however, the basic thrust is clear: Allah knows, what Allah says goes, and Allah is basically an angry old man who hates people, apart from a favoured few.

You wrote

One of the last things Mohammed said or wished for was the women to be protected.

Yes, indeed he did. How one protects something depends on what it is and what is one's relationship to it. In Arab society (as in many other societies of the period), women were essentially property, and they were protected as property is protected—meaning, protected against 'theft' by others and entitled to necessary repairs and maintenance. This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting their human rights, their feelings or even their bodies—they could be infibulated, raped (within marriage), impregnated and beaten without their consent, and Islamic scholars since the days of the hadith have repeatedly endorsed all these actions. The Koran itself specifically advises husbands to beat recalcitrant wives.

Having said that, though, I should like to add that I know dozens of Muslim women and loving Muslim couples to whom such domestic horrors are as foreign as Mormon underwear.

The Koran gives everyone a very good description of what this antichrist will be, look like, even some signs to lookout for. Well guess what? I have found a couple of them and they lead straight back to Israel.

I don't believe in the Antichrist, any more than I believe in the sort of God worshipped by Jews, Christians and Muslims. The Koran, just like the Bible, is a tissue of fabrication and distorted historical fact.

reply to post by Astyanax

This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting their human rights, their feelings or even their bodies—they could be infibulated, raped (within marriage), impregnated and beaten without their consent,

Every single one of those crimes take place among people of all cultures.

Except....
When an atheist or a Christian or a Jew or a Hindu beats his wife : "he was just a violent a-hole by nature"

When a muslim beats his wife : "his religion instructed him to do it"

Like as if Muslims are devoid of the ability to love and care for their own wives.
Either way, there is plenty of scripture to counter your claims.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Every single one of those crimes take place among people of all cultures.

Infibulation (female circumcision) is not and has never been a common practice outside Africa and the Middle East. You are right about the others, though.

Like as if Muslims are devoid of the ability to love and care for their own wives.

You seem to be a selective reader. Surely you cannot have missed this?

Originally posted by Astyanax
I know dozens of Muslim women and loving Muslim couples to whom such domestic horrors are as foreign as Mormon underwear.

You are picking a fight with the wrong person. Go and find someone who thinks Muslims are evil and Islam is the same the whole world over. I am not that person.

Originally posted by Astyanax
I don't believe in the Antichrist, any more than I believe in the sort of God worshipped by Jews, Christians and Muslims. The Koran, just like the Bible, is a tissue of fabrication and distorted historical fact.

Well your an athiest.. Is that enough proof of an antichrist?

reply to post by Astyanax

Infibulation (female circumcision) is not and has never been a common practice outside Africa and the Middle East.

It takes place in mostly African countries... 26 out of the 30 countries in the list on wiki are in Africa.

It also happens to be practiced by Christians and Jews in Africa.

The only contemporary examples of Christians practicing FGM are in Africa. As FGM rituals predated the missionaries' work in North Africa, many African tribes continue the practice as a matter of cultural tradition, unrelated to religious belief.

The minority Ethiopian Jewish community (Beta Israel) practice FGM in a non-religious ceremony. It may be performed only by a Jewish woman. Toubia (1995) states that "female circumcision is not even mentioned in any religious text," and that scholars in Africa "would testify that[in Africa traditional and tribal rituals commonly supersede religion".

So it can easily be said that Africans are more likely to practice female circumcision... whether they are Jews, Christians or Muslims.

Strabo, the Greek geographer, reported the practice's existence in Egypt when he visited in 25 BCE. (wiki)

So that buries the myth that its an Islamic thing. Of course, some Islamic teachers may foolishly teach it as a religious duty, but many Muslim leaders are trying to get this banned.

source 1
source 2

Surely you cannot have missed this?
I know dozens of Muslim women and loving Muslim couples....

A little footnote after all those claims against muslim treatment of their women... doesn't mean anything.
Its like typing a 3 paragraph rant about how blacks are more likely to be criminal and then saying "I know dozens of blacks who are nice people."

You are picking a fight with the wrong person. Go and find someone who thinks Muslims are evil and Islam is the same the whole world over. I am not that person.

Of course you aren't. You know dozens of loving muslim couples, right?

Your question is answered here:
islam.uga.edu...
islamcode.com...
www.islam101.com...
www.discoveringislam.org...

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You are reading selectively sk0rpi0n

You can know a person by their words - but only if you actually read their words

Missing context will leave you barking up all the wrong trees

reply to post by Astyanax

As an atheist, I find all religious belief and practice somewhat pernicious.

We still live in a world where washing the feet of women is seen as a radical act - by some

Let alone the rest of it

It's all a matter of time - but it breaks my heart a little knowing I won't be around to see what comes with time