Tell me about Magick.

I'll be honest, I believe in things that are tangible. I do not discount things I cannot see or touch, but I am skeptical and would need some serious proof to believe. I don't know much about the Chaos magick or any other type other than the traditional "magician's illusions or slight of hand". I may be massively misunderstanding it's context, and that is what this thread is about. In many secret societies there is a mystical part that takes a whole lot of faith to believe.

I remember talking to a Rosicrucian and being told that they felt the same way until something happened that changed their minds. (and scared the crap out of them) I didn't get into the details of what that was but took it for what it was. I see members of OTO discussing this topic with some knowledge.

I heard all about how a Ouija board could summon demons, and while I don't believe in them, I sure wouldn't want to find out how wrong I was that way, so I don't mess with them. That may be a bit hypocritical, but I don't see it that way. I see it as not poking the rabid badger with a sharp stick to see how pissed off I can make it.

So I would be very interested in hearing interpretations of what Magick is, and what you might be able to gain by using it.

And please, if it's something you obligated yourself not to discuss with the uninitiated, please say that so I will not pry where I shouldn't be prying.

reply to post by network dude


Magick spelled with a 'K' was a literary convention of hoaxster Aleister Crowley. Are you sure you want to start there? That only gives us a span of about 100 years to discuss, and it's my least favorite 100 years.

Kind regards,

Depends on who you ask. But a lot of people from those disciplines that practice "magick," use this spelling to segregate it from the illusionary stage magic tricks.

For them, the end result of the working is the focus, not the getting there. It is a form of manifestation using ritualistic "tools" to focus energy and bring it into your reality (or pull you to the reality where the end result has a higher probability of happening). For those that use magick, they will tell you that it absolutely works, but it isn't like making a wish to a genie, it will take some time for the magick to complete and the end result to occur.

So, you could say that magick works, and it doesn't work based on your belief system. No matter what you choose, you will be right.

I seriously have no idea about any of it other than what I mentioned in the OP. I spelled it like that because that is how I have seen it here. I'd prefer to have my ignorance out in the open about this topic so nobody thinks I have any answers. I do however have lots of questions.

If you could indulge me, are there different kinds of magic/magick, and if so, what are they and what are their uses?

thanks

reply to post by network dude


I can't help but ponder your intentions on this subject. As Google is your best friend to learn what different magic types / theories / practices / et cetera.

I find it hard to believe that someone on ATS has never heard of magic in any form, so pardon my skepticism on the creation of this thread.

reply to post by Bybyots


I didn't see Crowley as a hoaxer, more of an egomaniac who was very well read.


He seemed more into searching for anything he didn't know that sounded like it might piss off the populace.

But I do not want to limit the discussion to him and that time frame.

I am very interested in the Rosicrucian type stuff. Unfortunately, I don't even know enough right now to know what to ask.

reply to post by sulaw


As I just mentioned in my last post, I don't have a starting point. It's easy to just say I don't believe in it and dismiss it out of hand, but I have some interest in finding out more about what it is and why it is. I assure you I have no ill intentions. I just would like to have a discussion and hopefully learn something.

Originally posted by network dude
I seriously have no idea about any of it other than what I mentioned in the OP. I spelled it like that because that is how I have seen it here. I'd prefer to have my ignorance out in the open about this topic so nobody thinks I have any answers. I do however have lots of questions.

If you could indulge me, are there different kinds of magic/magick, and if so, what are they and what are their uses?

thanks

Replace "Magick" with "Manifestation". Magick/Manifestation is neither good or bad, only the intention behind it. Much like anything, if you intend to harm, it is considered "bad", if you intend to help, then it is considered "good".

Beyond that, google could really be your friend. Or you could ask one of the resident white/black/red/purple-polka-dotted witches that dwell this site.

reply to post by network dude


The one kind I can mention is "Respite".
in Latin, it means Rex pide which translates as the king begs.
It starts off with a gift from a black magician. You use it and they get a chance to stop you from freeing your soulsoul. Which in turn leads to the 30° wherein the object is broken to free the soul.
In my experience it is like breaking the piñata.

reply to post by network dude


Well,

Anthropologists use the word magic to describe a phenomenon found in all societies wherein people seem to attempt to control their environment through 'spiritual' means, usually by trying to influence unseen forces or beings.

The example of Trobriand Cricket is commonly used as a primer for these ideas...



Trobriand Cricket

It's all alchemy. As another poster above me said pretty well it's all about focus, a lot of people use their focus ritualistically but you can manifest through focus alone.

Be careful this is not to be toyed with. Don't trust anyone. Learn how to interpret your own personal symbolism and discover your own personal magic through journeying.

reply to post by network dude

I didn't see Crowley as a hoaxer, more of an egomaniac who was very well read. He seemed more into searching for anything he didn't know that sounded like it might piss off the populace. But I do not want to limit the discussion to him and that time frame. I am very interested in the Rosicrucian type stuff. Unfortunately,


I don't even know enough right now to know what to ask.

Ok,

network dude? I am not a newbie, I have been around for a while and have participated in threads with you. Do you actually mean to tell me that after 4 + years of creating and participating in threads like this that you don't know where to start to ask?

Your insincerity is showing.

Do you really want to discuss 'magick' today? Or is something else going on?

reply to post by network dude


Ok, I can understand you but even with that being said. It's hard to come to a decision based on other's views on the subject as personal growth and knowledge on said subjects is better found in books and individual experiances in regards to the variety of magic out there.

Santerian / Voodoo / White / Black / Light / Dark / Wican / Druid / The list goes on, and there is no short answer to one's own knowledge in those subjects. Better to search for yourself and get something under your belt and focus in on a certain magic instead of the whole realm that it entails.

But that's just my thoughts, best luck on your journey and cheers~

reply to post by network dude


Start by journeying. Get with someone who knows how to lead journeys. Get really comfortable with it and really learn how to interpret its symbolism. Start dream logs apply what you learn to your dreams. Once you get to that point you need to figure out what your suppose to be learning. You'll really know how to direct your focus at this point.

reply to post by Bybyots

That's pretty deep philosophical stuff, calling that magic. I see the introduction of ritualized competition to take the place of warfare, evolving.

I don't know what people mean when they say magic with regards to secret societies like the OTO and Rosicrucianism. I don't mean pulling a rabbit out of a hat, I mean does it involve paranormal things, or the en-explainable.

Like what witchcraft was purported to be, or voodoo stuff is supposedly about. Or am I talking about apples and oranges?

reply to post by network dude


Apples and Oranges as even if we state that ok (Just fictious now) all magic is real. Now this is like learning a Science and all fields have different applications i.e applied sciences. It's all different but all can also be seen as very similiar in theory of magic.

reply to post by network dude


Apples and Oranges as even if we state that ok (Just fictious now) all magic is real. Now this is like learning a Science and all fields have different applications i.e applied sciences. It's all different but all can also be seen as very similiar in theory of magic.

Originally posted by Bybyots

Ok,

network dude? I am not a newbie, I have been around for a while and have participated in threads with you. Do you actually mean to tell me that after 4 + years of creating and participating in threads like this that you don't know where to start to ask?

Your insincerity is showing.

Do you really want to discuss 'magick' today? Or is something else going on?

Wow, this is a tough room.

I have always had a problem with things I had no idea about. I would just ignore them and focus on what I did know about. that works sometimes and is great if you have no want to know. But I see some members whom I respect and trust, talking about this kind of thing and I would like to have a basic understanding of it.

I assure you I am sincere with this. I just don't think I am presenting my question right.

My knowledge of magic begins and ends with illusions and slight of hand card tricks.
My grandfather was very into Rosicrucian teachings. ( I have discussed this before here) He died before I had an interest in this kind of thing so when I was a punk kid, I just assumed he was a bit nuts and let it at that. But now, as I said, I have an interest in at the very least, understanding what the subject is.

Levitation for instance, he claimed he could levitate. But only when nobody else was watching.

Is magic or Magick more philosophical or is it physical changes?


And I do not intend to go mucking around where I have no business, the warnings seem to peak interest more than to discourage. So please understand that all I am trying to is understand.

Here try this,
from back in 2010
from right here on ATS

Learn a Spell (lesson 44)


Hope that actual example of a successful bit of chaos majic will give one a stronger sense of themselves.
Or at least their place in this construct called the real world.


Mike Grouchy

If you want to understand the origins...

-“The opposition of m e / partsu and n a m t a r / shimtu is not just conceptually implied, but turns out to be made explicit in third millennium cosmogony. Herein a cosmic ocean, N a m m a , produces a proto-universe, Heaven and Earth undivided. In a series of stages, all represented by gods, Heaven and Earth produce the Holy Mound (d u k u g ), which in its turn produces E n l i l , ‘Lord Ether’, who by his very existence separates Heaven and Earth. E n l i l , representing the space between Heaven and Earth, the sphere of human and animal life, organises what he finds by his decisions (n a m t a r / shimtu), and thus puts everything into place: the universe becomes a cosmos. Before being permanently subjected, however, the primordial universe (Heaven and Earth) rebels; its representative, a member of the older generation of gods, E n m e sh a r r a , ‘Lord All M e ’, tries to usurp E n l i l ’s prerogative to n a m t a r / shimtu (i.e. prerogative to make decisions). He is defeated by E n l i l and incarcerated in the netherworld for good. The myth can be read as a theistically-slanted argument on two modes of defining order: an immutable cosmological order (m e / partsu) whose unmistakable champion is E n m e sh a r r a , against a protean, individual-centred, volitional, anthropomorphic order, whose champion is E n l i l . The latter reflects, on the religious and mythical plane, the hegemonic process revolving on the imposition and expansion of the centralised mode of production upon an earlier concept of the organisation of social life, production and reproduction.

The tension between divine rule and the universe to be subjugated is the theme of yet another third millennium myth, Lugale. In this myth an alliance of stones is led by A z a g , ‘Disorder’, a version (individualised for the occasion) of a common demon of untimely disease and disorder in general. The stones rebel against having their tasks allocated (n a m t a r / shimtu) by Ninurta, E n l i l ’s strong arm. Needless to say their resistance proofs futile, and the myth ends with a long list of stones, all given their proper functions by Ninurta. The difference between this myth and the one about E n m e sh a r r a lies in the specific moment of mythical time in which the confrontation takes place. Whereas E n m e sh a r r a belonged to the primordial universe that was subjugated when E n l i l organised the cosmos, the stones belong to a periphery of the universe: to rebellious mountain lands that continue to exist. Apparently the universe prior to divine rule and that outside divine rule share a tendency to rise against the prerogatives of the gods of order; and although in each case the rebellion is quenched, the very fact of its occurrence shows that divine rule is not beyond question, and that order is not completely secured. In other words, the way in which the uncaptured elements appear in the symbolic system reveals their continuing existence as a feared anti-social force and a threat to the hegemonic order.’

www.abovetopsecret.com...