Can you reject Paul and still be a "Christian"?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I already covered this, just because Jesus said he came to fulfill the law doesn't mean he was ending it. That's like saying since you fulfilled your duties at work one day, that means you'll never have to work again, kind of ridiculous.

It still stands that Jesus said the law would not disappear until the Earth passed away. The Earth has yet to pass away, meaning the law never went away.

What unique skill set did Paul have that any other non-murderer didn't have?

No you're twisting His words. He said not one jot or title of the law would pass away until it was fulfilled, and in The next breath He said He came to fulfil it. The only way the law would still be in effect would be if Jesus was a failure.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So Jesus' message is only for those who are learned and stable? I thought his message was for everyone?

No it wasn't, He made that emphatically clear when explaining why He taught in parables. To conceal spiritual truth from those who were not His own.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Either way, he was telling them to be like God, who is perfect. Jesus wouldn't have told them to be like god if they could never achieve it.

I hope you're not referring to Jesus's comment to the man who asked what he needed to do to "earn" eternal life.

There are two ways to heaven, the first way is to be perfect never sin once, the other path is redemption through Christ. Jesus answered the man in that manner because of the question the man asked. He asked what he needed to do himself to earn it on his own.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

There are two ways to heaven, the first way is to be perfect never sin once . . .

So how is it that Moses appeared with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration?
Moses did sin and his god told him so.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So you're choosing to ignore what he said about heaven and Earth passing away? Ok, whatever.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


And since you believe no one can be perfect, that leaves only one way, through Jesus. Correct? So why didn't he tell the man that? He told him to keep the commandments, if keeping the commandments means perfection and no one other than Jesus can reach perfection, why didn't Jesus tell him that?

You keep making things up to fit with your presuppositions. You say there are two ways, but you really know that isn't true, don't you?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Care to link an article that shows historical evidence of Paul outside of the bible?

Here is a capture from the page I linked to earlier.

reply to post by Akragon

Can you reject Paul and still be a "Christian"?

Are you worshiping Paul?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Ignatius wasn't born until well after Paul was supposedly executed and was already part of the church when he wrote those letters.

Anything from around the time Paul lived that proves his historicity?

ETA: Never mind, I had Ignatius confused with someone else. Sorry.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You keep making things up to fit with your presuppositions.

I think that comes from being in a cult.
They give them pat answers to questions and when those get shot down, all they can do is keep repeating the same thing, trusting in the 'wisdom' of their leader.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Ignatius wasn't born until well after Paul was supposedly executed and was already part of the church when he wrote those letters.

Anything from around the time Paul lived that proves his historicity?

Have you ever studied history?
Ever heard of the Dark Ages?
The collapse of the Empire?
The invasion of the barbarian hordes?
'Sacking' and burning?
There aren't exactly a lot of records that survived from the time Paul lived.
If you held to your standard of evidence, then the history of the first century would be just a big blank page.

Originally posted by Staroth
reply to post by Akragon

 

Can you reject Paul and still be a "Christian"?

Are you worshiping Paul?

lol should I say welcome back?

I worship no man...

reply to post by jmdewey60


Yet Paul, an enemy of Rome, had his letters preserved. I wonder why?

If you have no problems with Paul then why do you reject Acts?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yet Paul, an enemy of Rome, had his letters preserved. I wonder why?

Obviously they weren't.
They were copied and fragments existed in various writings, that were collated later to reconstruct what the originals would have looked like.

If you have no problems with Paul then why do you reject Acts?

Because there are contradictions between what it says, with what Paul said.
Also there is an example of plagiarism from a travelogue, that was used to describe the sea voyage of Paul.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I would like to see a thread on the contradictions between Paul and acts

You already have one star and flag if you bring said unwritten thread to my attention

reply to post by jmdewey60


What would the purpose of creating a fictional story around Paul achieve exactly? Why do you think they felt the need to create a story from plagiarized material?

The only reason I can think of is because a man named Paul never existed, what other reason could there be?

reply to post by Akragon

I would like to see a thread on the contradictions between Paul and acts

Most of what I was talking about comes from:
History of the First Christians (Understanding The Bible And Its World), by Alexander J. M. Wedderburn

It's not something I have done an in-depth personal study on. It's something I have picked up on reading different books and articles.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What would the purpose of creating a fictional story around Paul achieve exactly? Why do you think they felt the need to create a story from plagiarized material?

It should be very obvious to anyone who reads this thread:
To demonize him and to subject him to ridicule and to build up the good reputation of the Jews, to make them look good in comparison.

reply to post by jmdewey60


But he's one of the most respected people in history! Why would they use his teachings if they we're trying to demonize him? That doesn't make any sense to me.

I think it's more likely that Acts was a fictional story created to promote a fictional character named Paul. I don't see why the church would try to demonize Paul when he is the founder and creator of the majority of their doctrine.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And since you believe no one can be perfect, that leaves only one way, through Jesus. Correct? So why didn't he tell the man that? He told him to keep the commandments, if keeping the commandments means perfection and no one other than Jesus can reach perfection, why didn't Jesus tell him that?

You keep making things up to fit with your presuppositions. You say there are two ways, but you really know that isn't true, don't you?

Because the man asked a specific question and Jesus gave a specific answer to that question. The man wanted to know how to earn eternal life on his own merits.

Jesus told what that would take... perfection.