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I'm not thinking of anything that matches up with what you are describing.
What I was getting at was that Paul's version of the ascension (based on a physically ascended Jesus) and Paul's own spiritual vision of Jesus' ascended form - was the basis on which he felt saved.
I don't subscribe to the "blood sacrifice" part. "Blood" is mentioned metaphorically in Hebrews, not universally accepted as being by Paul, but most likely very close to Paul in influence.
And so Paul started proclaiming that such salvation (or re-union with the Divine) was eventually available to everyone via simply having faith or belief in Jesus' own physical death/blood sacrifice, resurrection, and ascension.
I am aware that there are people who interpret Paul in that way, but I think they do so wrongly.
Thus Paul's version of Christianity allowed the believer to be "let off the hook" in terms of what Jesus actually taught relative to loving God fully and one's neighbor as oneself, as real preparation for directly entering into communion with God in this life through one's own responsible self-sacrifice in God.
That is getting deep into the esoterica of modern salvation theory.
In other words, in Paul's version, Jesus' sacrifice became a substitute for one's own self-sacrifice (real love) in the Divine.
I think it satisfied the needs of the early form of Gnosticism of Paul's time, with the perfect 'new Adam' of Jesus.
. . .
it won out over the other "contenders" at that time, and most especially the Gnostics.
Matthew 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Mark 7
5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”
6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
7 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
What did he mean by "law"?
Matthew 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
The Earth is still here isn't it? So that means the law is still in effect. Surprising how many times I (we) have to repeat that. It's pretty clear, the law will not disappear until the Earth disappears.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Matthew 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
The Earth is still here isn't it? So that means the law is still in effect.
Before he was coverted.
Paul was a Pharisee. Hmmm....
Matthew 19
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Matthew 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
The Earth is still here isn't it? So that means the law is still in effect. Surprising how many times I (we) have to repeat that. It's pretty clear, the law will not disappear until the Earth disappears.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
If those two commandments encompass all the other commandments, and Jesus "demanded" those two commandments be kept, then by extension he was also talking about the other laws as well.edit on 28-3-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
I'm not Jewish and according to Jesus the law is very relevant.
Matthew 19
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
To enter life, keep the commandments (law), and that's straight from the horse's mouth.
Matthew 5
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Matthew 5
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
The Earth is still here isn't it? So that means the law is still in effect.
Of course it is. Are you Jewish? If not, then the Law is irrelevant, even though it still exists. If you are Jewish, then it's still there for you to look to and hope for salvation on. Good luck with that, though.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Matthew 5
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
I'm not sure how any of this disproves what Jesus said. Care to point out what you're getting at?
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
So loving your neighbor and god is hard to do? Maybe in your world it is impossible because that is what you have been taught, but in my world it is not hard at all. It's as easy as it sounds.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
So why does Peter call Paul's teachings hard to understand? If Jesus' burden was light and yoke easy, why did Paul add all this extra fluff that's hard to understand?