Is it possible to be a Christian and a believer in Islam?

Originally posted by JDmOKI
reply to post by logical7

 

Out of curiosity.

If Jesus was in Muhammad's shoes, would he had taken Mecca in the same way or at all?

edit on 19-3-2013 by JDmOKI because: (no reason given)

well yes.
Muhammad pbuh went with an army of 10,000 and Makkah was taken without a fight and he forgave every enemy who had been against him.

Being peaceful in weakness is nice. Being peaceful even with an army of 10,000 is better. Don't you agree?

reply to post by logical7


Heh? Jesus was the ultimate pacifist, i don't understand ur point.

I dunno become a martial arts master and disarm him?

I think the point of turning the other cheek is to love your enemy. Kinda a Gandhi approach type of thing...hatred begets more hatred.... interpret this however you want but its quite self explanatory, unlike many things in the Bible or Koran or Torah

reply to post by FlyersFan


The Koran has undeniable scientific claims which were impossible 1400 years ago.. Only over the last century or so scientists have found that the Koran could of only come from Allah because the knowledge hidden in that book couldn't of been known by any man back in those days let alone an illiterate man.

Even with that video, it is showing something that is written in the Koran and the significance of Mecca with it.. I will have a look for these scientific facts and show you.. This book is not about Mohammed slaughtering people.. The book has knowledge that not even modern scientists knew about not long ago. Scientists have proven this, how can you and others deny the Koran still?

If this book has this tye of information riddled through it and is spot on, the why would it lie about Jesus being a prophet? Makes you wonder why the West are trying to destroy Islam right now.

reply to post by logical7


Many Muslim leaders forgave the occupants of their conquests. Constantinople being a good example. Though the amount of people who had to die in order to take the city could have been avoided if people lived by the ideals they preached.

reply to post by DarknStormy


I think you underestimate the Middle east during that time period. The middle ages stopped all education in Europe and the middle east was far superior haven for knowledge that was lost in Europe.

The Muslims learned for the Greeks while the Europeans....forgot or something :/

reply to post by FlyersFan

If God is Good, and Jesus is God .. then Jesus is Good.

There is a problem.

Jesus himself said...
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Originally posted by JDmOKI
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

I think you underestimate the Middle east during that time period. The middle ages stopped all education in Europe and the middle east was far superior haven for knowledge that was lost in Europe.

The Muslims learned for the Greeks while the Europeans....forgot or something :/

I'm not under-estimating the Middle East, I'm just saying that Mohammed couldn't of known all that information being illiterate.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

If God is Good, and Jesus is God .. then Jesus is Good.

There is a problem.

Jesus himself said...
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

You don't get that?

Did Jesus say "Don't call me good"? No, he asked why he was being called good, in order to ascertain if the rich young man understood Christ's divine nature.

reply to post by JDmOKI

I think the point of turning the other cheek is to love your enemy. Kinda a Gandhi approach type of thing...hatred begets more hatred.... interpret this however you want but its quite self explanatory, unlike many things in the Bible or Koran or Torah

that approach is kind of bad when an army is attacking.
Hatred is sure bad.

2:190. And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress
not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the
transgressors.

so fighting someone just because of hatred is wrong.

reply to post by JDmOKI



Sorry for I have no knowledge of Christianity and Bible, but let me give you some facts from Quran and Islam

According to Quran the Ideology Mohammed brought was same as the Ideology of Jesus , but The people who got 2 Ideologies First hand made them politicized for their own benefit , And the Islam which Mohammed brought 14 hundred years back was not the Islam of today . it is very clear

Quran: 6:159 [As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with God: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.]

www.searchtruth.com...

links that may be helpful

www.submission.org...


www.maaref...-
foundation.com/english/library/pro_ahl/imam02_hasan/the_life_of_imam_hasan/03.htm

Here is some facts from Quran

15:10-13

10 We did send messengers before thee amongst the religious sects of old:

11 But never came a messenger to them but they mocked him

12 Even so do we let it creep into the hearts of the sinners

13 That they should not believe in the (Message); but the ways of the ancients have passed away.

7:35

O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from amongst you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who are righteous and mend (their lives),- on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve.

30:30

Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by God in which He has made men; there is no altering of God's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know

10:19

Mankind was but one nation, but differed (later). Had it not been for a word that went forth before from thy Lord, their differences would have been settled between them.

5:46

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.


4:171

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.

2:87
We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

(3: 59)

The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

3:52

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God ?" Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are submitters to God.

5:75

Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

3:144

And Muhammad is no more than an apostle; the apostles have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to God in the least and God will reward the grateful.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

If God is Good, and Jesus is God .. then Jesus is Good.

There is a problem.

Jesus himself said...
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

You don't get that?

Did Jesus say "Don't call me good"? No, he asked why he was being called good, in order to ascertain if the rich young man understood Christ's divine nature.

you are seeking a proof for divinity in a simple rhetoric question.
Its simply putting a meaning that fits your belief.
It would be the same as saying he is god because he never said "i am not God"!!

Originally posted by DarknStormy
The Koran has undeniable scientific claims which were impossible 1400 years ago..

I've heard people say that .. but when I go googling all I find are the scientific and
historical errors in the Qur'an. And there are lots. I'd be interested in seeing
what the alleged miraculous scientific claims are.

If this book has this tye of information riddled through it and is spot on, the why would it lie about Jesus being a prophet?

Jesus isn't a prophet. He's God Incarnate. What you think is Islam building up Jesus by calling him a man and a prophet (lesser even than Muhammad) is instead really Islam tearing Jesus down. The Christian gospels show Jesus to be God Incarnate .. who rose from the dead by His own power ... and not lesser than Muhammad and not some side kick to a Mahdi. The Muslim Qu'ran shows Jesus just to be another human being and not God. So, the Qur'an isn't as 'Jesus friendly' as people try to make it out to be.

Makes you wonder why the West are trying to destroy Islam right now.

Self preservation. Self preservation for many reasons ....
ATS Thread - Outbreeding the Enemy
The educated west has low birth rates. the uneducated ... and the muslim nations ... (notice I listed them separately) .. have much higher birth rates.
Also .. Sharia law is counter to secular law.
The thought of misogynistic Sharia being the law of the land should scare EVERYONE.
IMHO

reply to post by InfaRedMan

The link works fine and it's not a typical rambling. Just shows you didn't read it which makes your post kind of pointless really.

Well, I was getting an error message back when I first tried clicking on it. (It works now for some reason)

But I googled the title of that document shortly after you posted it.... and I read it. It was the usual anti-Islamic rambling, that I've seen before. Its the same old, same old lets lump in 1 billion plus with the actions of extremists" silliness not even worth addressing.

reply to post by adjensen

You don't get that?

Did Jesus say "Don't call me good"? No, he asked why he was being called good, in order to ascertain if the rich young man understood Christ's divine nature.

"in order to ascertain if the rich young man understood Christ's divine nature"

Thats not what the text says at all.

The man called Jesus "good".
Jesus replied "why do you call me good? there is no one good except God"

reply to post by FlyersFan

I've heard people say that .. but when I go googling all I find are the scientific and historical errors in the Qur'an. And there are lots. I'd be interested in seeing what the alleged miraculous scientific claims are.

let me tell you some simple one.
Qur'an talks about two water bodies(seas) one sweet and palatable other saltly and bitter and there's a barrier between them.
Now when a river meets the sea there is an invisible slanting barrier and on one side is river water the other side is salty water.

In Qur'an Allah compares people on resurrection day to locusts.
Locusts lay eggs in sand and they can remain their for many years and then the locusts swarm out, so will be people from their graves.

Now did Muhammad pbuh study geology and life cycle of locusts? Both are a later finding.

EDIT- remembered one more.
In Qur'an God swears by the sky and 'tarak'
(the earlier commentators translated it as 'one who knocks'/'night visitor'.)
God continues to say what it is and says its a 'piercing star'
now Pulsars are a recent finding they are stars who pulse(knock) and they emit very penetrating(piercing) radiations.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by adjensen

 

You don't get that?

Did Jesus say "Don't call me good"? No, he asked why he was being called good, in order to ascertain if the rich young man understood Christ's divine nature.

"in order to ascertain if the rich young man understood Christ's divine nature"

Thats not what the text says at all.

The man called Jesus "good".
Jesus replied "why do you call me good? there is no one good except God"

That's exactly what it says.

You think it says: "Do not call me good. There is no one good except God, and I am not God."

It actually says: "Why do you call me good? Only God is good, are you calling me God?"

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by SpiritofEnoch

 

Jews, Muslims and Christians all believe in the same God (Abraham's), so why not?

Really? Muslims believe God is YHWH?

reply to post by DarknStormy

The Koran has undeniable scientific claims which were impossible 1400 years ago.. Only over the last century or so scientists have found that the Koran could of only come from Allah because the knowledge hidden in that book couldn't of been known by any man back in those days let alone an illiterate man.

Could a fallen angel have known that stuff likewise? Remember that was Muhammad's first reaction to the Shining one he encountered in the cave.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Scientific evidence from the Koran

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)

 

Until the dawn of the 20th century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time". The research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology, however, have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning, and that it constantly "expands".

"(We) then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be God, the Best of Creators!"(The Qur'an, 23:14)

 

During the seventh week, the skeleton begins to spread throughout the body and the bones take their familiar shapes. At the end of the seventh week and during the eighth week the muscles take their positions around the bone forms.

Have to say its pretty amazing..

"It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
(The Qur'an, 2:29)

"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
(The Qur'an, 41:12)

 

Scientists have found that the atmosphere consists of several layers. The layers differ in such physical properties as pressure and the types of gasses. The layer of the atmosphere closest to Earth is called the TROPOSPHERE. It contains about 90% of the total mass of the atmosphere. The layer above the troposphere is called the STRATOSPHERE. The OZONE LAYER is the part of the stratosphere where absorption of ultraviolet rays occurs.

The layer above the stratosphere is called the MESOSPHERE. The THERMOSPHERE lies above the mesosphere. The ionized gases form a layer within the thermosphere called the IONOSPHERE. The outermost part of Earth's atmosphere extends from about 480 km out to 960 km. This part is called the EXOSPHERE. (2)

Now without the modern technology we have, how the hell could anyone determine some of these things 1400 years ago? Now I'm open to the suggestion that maybe a civilisation in the past had the tech of today and maybe passed this down also but apart from that, really?

All that we have seen so far shows us one clear fact: the Qur'an is such a book that all the news related in it has proved to be true. Facts about scientific subjects and the news given about the future, facts that no one could have known at the time, were announced in its verses. It is impossible for this information to have been known with the level of knowledge and technology of the day. It is clear that this provides clear evidence that the Qur'an is not the word of man.

The Qur'an is the word of the Almighty God, the Originator of everything and the One Who encompasses everything with His knowledge. In one verse, God says on the Qur'an "If it had been from other than God, they would have found many inconsistencies in it." (The Qur'an, 4:82) Not only are there no inconsistencies in the Qur'an, but every piece of information it contains reveals the miracle of this divine book more and more each day.

So judge it all you want, judge Mohammed but from what I can see, the Koran doesn't judge Christians.. The actions of some Muslims doesn't exactly represent the teachings of this book and even Christians should show a bit of respect for it.

Originally posted by logical7
Qur'an talks about two water bodies(seas) one sweet and palatable other saltly and bitter and there's a barrier between them. .... In Qur'an Allah compares people on resurrection day to locusts. Locusts lay eggs in sand and they can remain their for many years and then the locusts swarm out, so will be people from their graves.

Both of those were common knowledge .. not 'scientific discovery'. People who sailed knew about the water and the barriers .. people all over the area knew about locusts and their eggs, etc. Sorry but those aren't exactly shock and awe 'discoveries' ...

Originally posted by logical7
In Qur'an God swears by the sky and 'tarak' ..

I'd have to see exactly what it says ...
Just from what you said it looks like a stretch to try fit it together ....
but I'd have to see it.