What is spiritual Enlightenment and is it worth the effort?

Originally posted by dominicus

I think we will have consciousness downloading tech within the next 100 years and we'll be able to download Enlightenment and all the advanced stuff directly. Although it may come sooner or later. Either way we are heading towards and Enlightened Utopia with small fragmented Fundamentalist groups that will be completely against it and will be the last remaining people to cause chaos on our earth (many hardliner skeptic atheist groups included)

We're heading there one way or another

Consciousness does not need to be downloaded - consciousness is always already the case.
Enlightenment is the realization of oneness - and oneness is never not the case, it is just not realized to be the case by the seeker.
'Sooner or later' are realized to be just a thought arising presently. There is no 'next' or 'before' - there is only ever this (what is happening).
When oneness is realized it is seen that no one 'else' needs to wake up because it is realized that there is no one.

There is nowhere to head to unless you believe what your head says. There is only here and now (presence) but the mind is always 'next' or 'before'.
Nothing is wanted or expected when oneness is realized - no more seeking, no more looking into time for a solution because it is seen that there is no problem.
When there is no problem there is a total relaxation into boundlessness. When there is a melting back into the whole - it feels delightful (for no one).

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Alright there is a lot of walls of text with lots of good info posted thus far but it is as simple as asking 'what makes you happy' That is what enlightenment is all about, to remove the suffering from ones soul after that you can never again be depressed or sad or any of those bad feelings its really awesome. Just do what you feel is right and that simple fact makes it right. In your heart you know what being happy means live that feeling in everyday life.

Originally posted by Agent008
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

Alright there is a lot of walls of text with lots of good info posted thus far but it is as simple as asking 'what makes you happy' That is what enlightenment is all about, to remove the suffering from ones soul after that you can never again be depressed or sad or any of those bad feelings its really awesome. Just do what you feel is right and that simple fact makes it right. In your heart you know what being happy means live that feeling in everyday life.

If one is asking oneself 'what makes me happy?' then one is not happy already. If unhappiness is the case then seeking for happiness will happen.
When oneness is seeking, it is not feeling great (otherwise it would not be seeking any thing).
The realization that all there is is this (what is happening) will relieve one of seeking.

Nothing can make you happy. If one believes that 'something' can make them happy they will be greedy and needy and rarely satisfied.

What is spiritual Enlightenment and is it worth the effort?

It is definetly worth the effort.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by dodol

 

Seeking enlightenment is 'seeking'. It is the 'seeking' that stops one from realizing that this is already whole.
To look for more than there is - is seeking. Can anything outside of presence (now) be seen or heard? Even if there is a thought arising that speaks of tomorrow, it is arising presently. Nothing can arise outside of this nowness but the individual wants to know 'what is next' because it is 'seeking' something better. But there is nothing more than what is actually happening presently.

The energy that this is made of is contracted in the 'divided one' - so feels uncomfortable. This discomfort wants comfort and all it needs is to relax. When the energy relaxes it will melt back into wholeness.
The relaxation will not happen if there is a idea that there is relief elsewhere because it will strive to get to this non existent 'elsewhere'. The striving or seeking is what prevents oneness being realized.

In my opinion Tony Parsons is the most straight talking at explaining the apparent situation:
youtu.be...

Thanks for your wise words.
I'll give a look on the video tonight.

Dunno why, I feel like i start to become satisfied with my life.
The feeling is like 'That's it, I don't want anything anymore'
Close to this.

Really thank you for your guidance. I find they are extremely motivating.

Originally posted by dodol

Thanks for your wise words.

I'll give a look on the video tonight.

Dunno why, I feel like i start to become satisfied with my life.
The feeling is like 'That's it, I don't want anything anymore'
Close to this.

Really thank you for your guidance. I find they are extremely motivating.

The only thing worth seeking is the cessation of seeking!!
youtu.be...

Glad you like what I offer and you are very, very welcome.

You might like this one as well:
Anticipating The Timeless:
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I enjoyed the videos and understand it all. However, there is a difference to understanding and experiencing, I'm just not sure how to experience the "now" constantly. I think my problem is, I'm seeking comfort in desperate times and that seeking is getting in my way,but its so powerful a force filled with uncertainty. The other problem, is that I feel in a rush to find this enlightenment, which again is a counter intuitive state of mind.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I enjoyed the videos and understand it all. However, there is a difference to understanding and experiencing, I'm just not sure how to experience the "now" constantly. I think my problem is, I'm seeking comfort in desperate times and that seeking is getting in my way,but its so powerful a force filled with uncertainty. The other problem, is that I feel in a rush to find this enlightenment, which again is a counter intuitive state of mind.

Do not try to experience the now.
You cannot experience now - you are now!!

Trying is seeking - just give up because there is absolutely nothing you can do. It is hopeless because the more you try (seek) the more the 'separate self' is because the 'separate self' is nothing more than wholeness seeking.- when the seeking stops it is seen that it is already complete as this (whatever is happening presently).

The individual feels empty and tries to fill that emptiness with 'things' and achievements, it always looks for more. It makes for need, greed and little satisfaction. The individual thinks 'enlightenment' will be the ultimate achievement.
When wholeness is realized it is because one has realized emptiness but is always full of what is actually happening. It sees that there is only ever what is present and totally sees that there is nothing more available . This is it - presently. It is emptiness and fullness. It no longer seeks because it is complete.

reply to post by Angle


I agree, from what I have heard it is the ultimate achievement.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I think you are perfectly right with your practice woodwardjnr so far as I can see.

Just proceed until you long for something more profound - and then try to reach out.
Enlightenment bears no virtue in itself - so why be hasty or even focused on a target that you can't comprehend right now.

You will know when it's time - and worth the effort - to set sail...

Ansar

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Happy Easter!

reply to post by On7a7higher7plane


I think the root of enlightenment lies in the heart, and it takes the whole body with it. Since the heart is the core of the being.

That, now that is not what we were guided to isn't it. One would suppose since all this enlightenment stuff is fed to our brain, that this somehow will be the root of enlightenment. Ah, at least I did think that. My perception is changing. But that doesn't mean I was right about the heart being the root.

I'm thinking about cultivating my heart more these days.

reply to post by Angle


I think the difference between spiritual and intellectual enlightenment should be recognized in this thread.

Finally, reading a thread that sounds serious. Not some thread about some weed smoking teenagers talking about UFOs and aliens with links to bunch of Youtube clips....claiming he has been enlightened. Hahaha....

Enlightenment is about realizing your own, original nature. You are not working towards it. You are more or less slowly piercing through the illusions of life and death and to finally "discover" your own nature. In this case, the Buddha nature, that nothing is permanent and the ultimate reality is the void. Conceptually, these teaching of the dharma does not mean much. They only mean something to you if you put the effort and merits into understanding the nature of your attachment...you attachment to forms. Forms that are causing your suffering may not be so hard to see through. However, forms that give you pleasure in life may require a bit of work to get yourself unattached. As your cultivation progress advances, your body will go through a transformation. So as in your meditation as well. The Chi channels and all chakras would be opened as well.

Being enlightened is to have a humble approach to enlightenment?

reply to post by Angle

Hi there Angle!

So you seem to be pretty serious about gaining a perspective on enlightenment and what it is all about.

A good starting point for that may be "The 10 Oxen Pictures" taken from the Zen Tradition.
Leonard Cohen drew from them some special thoughts and Cat Stevens too.
Zen is about being "practical" in every day live - and quarrel - see the Samurai tradition.

I bet you could have fun with the oxen!

A

reply to post by Ansar


That was fine, thank you Ansar.

reply to post by Angle

My pleasure Angle.

A

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Since many of us have resided in a extremely controlled environment many are completely oblivious to the truths. I've heard people make statements such as "your truth" yet none of it is my truth because I am not the creator of the universe. I had a friend tell me a time a go that there is a special place for ministers, pastors and the like. I am a student of the truth. I've studied theology and I practice a life style which is called the Christian lifestyle. I've prayed for knowledge to lead a people and to be able to help others unselfishly. I have received just that. I have become aware that life is worth every minute living. Someone asked the question "what is enlightenment?" I can surely attest that enlightenment is having the willingness to step out of what you have always been taught. Having, an opened enough mind to ask questions; research; never ever trust what your government is telling you because very likely it is a lie and very deeply rooted that when and if you were to get to the bottom of it a person would be stunned.. The largest most important ingredient into becoming your most authentic spiritual enlightenment self; one has to go back into the beginning of time and read and research up to the present. Its totally ok to be honest with yourself as a matter of fact it is imperative that you are.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr

If enlightenment is not really different from reality what's the point in trying to attain it? Is the self flagellation neccassary? I mean if you believe your going to be reincarnated, why not just enjoy life and forget the pursuit of enlightenment?

If you give other people the impression that you're spiritually enlightened or having a succesful method to try to attain it you get more respect, admiration and attention. Clever leading figures in Buddhism (among many other religions) can make quite a bit of money with that. If they didn't give anyone the idea that they can achieve spiritual enlightenment with Buddhistic meditation for example, a lot of people would lose interest > Less donations, less sales of anything you can make some money on (books, classes, etc.).

Is Buddhism the Way to Enlightenment? Awake!—1974

...
Buddha expressed his view of life as follows:

“Birth is suffering; decay is suffering; death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair are suffering; not to get what one desires is suffering.”

Buddha’s enlightenment had to do with how to escape from the endless cycle of rebirths. How would that be possible?

By recognizing the “Four Noble Truths,” which may be summarized as follows: (1) All living is painful; (2) Suffering is due to craving or desire; (3) When desire ceases there comes a release from suffering; (4) The way to release from suffering is to follow the Noble Eightfold Path consisting of four ethical precepts​—right speech, effort, conduct and work—​and four mental precepts​—right views, hopes, attentiveness and contemplation.

So it is desire, in Buddha’s opinion, that links a person to the chain of rebirths. To escape from it one must extinguish all desire for things pleasing to the senses. All craving for life as we know it must be suppressed. Meditation was viewed as a means to that end.

The Way to Nirvana
...
It is said that one meditating can get to a point in which he is indifferent to pain or pleasure and no longer desires life or any of the pleasures associated with it. At this point he is said to become free of the necessity of rebirth. He has reached Nirvana. What is that?

Professor of Sanskrit Walter E. Clark explains that Nirvana is a state which “cannot be reached or described by human knowledge and words.” It is “utterly different from all things in the knowable world.” Does that sound desirable to you? Would a state in which you are neither aware of life nor desire it help you to cope with the problems you face in life?

Does Buddhism Satisfy Man’s Spiritual Need?

Man has an inborn need to worship God. That is why he has always had some form of religion. Can Buddhism satisfy man’s spiritual need? Can it answer his questions about how the universe came about, how life came to be upon earth, why wickedness exists and whether it will ever end?

Concerning the origin of the universe, Buddha said: “The origin of phenomenal existence is inconceivable, and the beginnings of beings obstructed by ignorance and ensnared by craving is not to be discovered.” Buddhist writings say that the universe evolved from the dispersed matter of a previous universe that wore out. In time Buddhists expect that the present one will dissolve and that out of it will arise another.

Zen Buddhist expert Daisetz T. Suzuki emphasized:

“To us Orientals . . . there is no God, no creator, no beginning of things, no ‘Word,’ no ‘Logos,’ no ‘nothing.’ Westerners would then exclaim, ‘It is all nonsense! It is absolutely unthinkable!’ Orientals would say, ‘You are right. As long as there is at all a “thinking” you cannot escape getting into the dilemma or the bottomless abyss of absurdity.’” [Italics ours]

How do you feel about that? Do you wish to believe in something that is admittedly “nonsense” if a person uses his thinking ability? In your own experience have you found that thinking leads only to “dilemma or the bottomless abyss of absurdity”? Are you more successful in coping with the problems of life when you refrain from thinking? Is it really enlightenment to say there is no Creator and to believe in an unprovable theory of evolution? Such a philosophy could never satisfy your spiritual needs. In fact, it failed to do so even for followers of Buddha in ancient times.

Professor Albert S. Geden explains:
...

Evolution—Myths and Facts

In any search for spiritual enlightenment, one might follow misleading information, or one might even become a victim of deliberate deception. Either path can lead to tragedy.

True Spirituality—How Can You Find It?