(URGENT) N. Korea threatens preemptive nuclear strike against aggressors

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

This thread is about N. Korea and the possibility of a preemptive strike (war).

Obviously nothing is working with Kim so.... war is the only alternative?? I offered an alternative to an all out war.

You have defended the starving children which is where I am at as well, only I am saying kill him and not the innocent children who may or may not be starving... its pointless when there is a war coming to their back yard.

Here in the US... I am comfy and my kids are not hungry, however I feel for any one starving or oppressed by their leader. Taking over countries is something I am still not used to and will never be comfy with.

War does not equal peace and that is my point.

No war... want him dead... kill him but leave the people alone.

If saying that makes me appear drunk or high then so be it.

Thing is hun, you actually haven't. You provided an option which has been soundly refuted. By nearly everyone on this board.

If you kill Kim, he will be replaced within minutes and the war you seemingly don't want will happen.

I don't think there are any good solutions other than the regime suddenly changing it's attitude towards it's own people, or it's own people rising up against that regime.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Erik, I do understand what you are saying.. and wish there was an easy answer as well.

The people cannot rise up.

Their leaders attitudes will not change.

How do others change it for them? We can't.

Killing the people is where this is heading, Im afraid and it saddens me so much to think all the innocent lives that will be lost. Its tragic and I would rather see his regime under siege than his people.

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Well if its going to be a war... lets get him first as he is the one causing the problems. Why kill his people first?

It's not that easy.

Stop and think about it for a minute. Let's go back to WW2: would assassinating Hitler at done anything? Think about it. His regime was bent on following his plans. Only if he had been taken out, we may have ended up with a Nazi leader that was smarter than him, who would actually let his generals do their jobs right, instead of interfering. WW2 could have lasted even longer, or yes, it might have shorten it.....if there had been a conditional surrender of Nazi Germany, but with the Nazis retaining their power.

It's a complicated mess. The ideal situation would be for Kim to stop building a military war machine and actually take care of his people. Period.

But when was the last time a despot leader actually did that?

I don't think there are any good solutions other than the regime suddenly changing it's attitude towards it's own people, or it's own people rising up against that regime.

Libya tried that one, look where it get them. You can't take care of your people with sanctions on your head and a military power who has decimated nations on your case. All this talk of evil dictator just amuses, my country is poor, what do you think we can do with the West taking our resources? I know you have live in a place where options are many, other just get dealt #ty cards and the dealer wants what you have.

reply to post by MamaJ


Iam on the same side as you but you have assumed for no apparent reason that I want war and to kill the people of NK.
I have tried to explain just like others taking him out will not solve the problem.

reply to post by MildCat


You are right.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Iam on the same side as you but you have assumed for no apparent reason that I want war and to kill the people of NK.
I have tried to explain just like others taking him out will not solve the problem.

I look for solutions to problems.. if there aren't any then there is nothing to talk about.

I offered a solution that you and others do not agree with. What is your solution to the problem?

reply to post by goou111


Lil Kim =

He is upset that no one takes NK serious. He is upset that his childish tantrums garner no attention. It's all for attention...kinda like the spoiled kid that throws a fit in the candy aisle of the grocery store.

IF he were to attempt a nuke on the USA, it would be shot down. If he were to fire a nuke at SK, the Chinese would get involved quickly...I am sure they don't want a fallout cloud at their borders.

Big talking, chest beating "Someone better pay attention to me!"

His people are starving and guess what?...it's his and his daddy's fault...

reply to post by MamaJ


Like I said continued talking and getting the Chinese involved more, I suspect like others that he is just doing this to try and get more aid into his country, but that isn't going to happen.
If he did attack either the US or SK he must know it would be suicide for himself and his regime.
War is the last thing we want because innocents will die and it will knacker up the region for many years.

reply to post by MamaJ


Personally I'd love to see a unification of NK and SK, under a SK type of government rule.

Kim may even be crazy enough to do some saber rattling at China, which I think will finally break the camel's back, as far as China is concerned.

I could easily see China having had enough of NK, invade and effect their own regime change with a puppet government in NK.

No mater which way you look at it, people die:

Status Quo: people starve, tortured to death.
China invades: people will die
UN nations invade: people will die.
NK does a first strike, or reinvades SK: people will die.
Assassinate Kim: there would be a violent coup, or NK reacts with a first strike and people die.

No mater which way you look at it, people will still die. Even if all the sanctions were removed, and aid sent, the regime in NK will take that aid and us it to not help their people. They'll use it to further strengthen their military, so people will still end up starving, etc.

People are still going to die.

Spreading my hands helplessly here. Again: I see no easy answer at all, in any shape or form.

Embargo on arms and related materiel
Ban on exports of certain goods and technology listed by the UN
Prohibition of procurement of arms, related materiel and other goods and technology listed by the UN
Ban on provision of certain services
Ban on exports of luxury goods
Restrictions on admission
Freezing of funds and economic resources
Commitment to take cooperative action to prevent illicit trafficking in nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, ballistic missiles and their means of delivery, related materials and technology
Ban on import and purchase of goods and technology listed by the UN
List of goods and technology subject to ban on exports and imports (other than luxury goods)

www.sanctionswiki.org...

reply to post by eriktheawful


I feel ya... I don't know either except the thought of people dying is so sad.

I am not so sure China will do anything either as my thinking indicates if they were going to do anything they would have done it by now.

Kim has done a lot of talking thus far, but I have this nagging feeling his talk is about over and he is going to act before anything is done prior.

We have tried to be proactive by issuing more sanctions but that is only stirring his hate.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Nothing is working though... notta.

I guess we wait and see if its still all talk or if he is willing to walk the walk. If and when the latter takes place, it will be just as bad if not worse than an assassin. All out war is bound to happen with this crazy dude.. I just hate it.

reply to post by goou111


The biggest question imo is:

-Is this real or beought up in the wake of Defense cuts the DoD does not want to let go of.

DoD is playing a game now making the "little" money they lose due to sequester look like a huge deal.

Examples include:

1) They sent USS Eisenhower back on deployment aftr only 2 months between deployments. This means Sailors will be on deployment for 11 of next 13 months, if not extended. US Navy says they cannot send USS Truman out to sea without this vital money.
wtvr.com...

2) Civilian Furlogh (Yes DoD has quite a few cililians). Quote: The Department of Defense has released a timeline for how the furloughs will be handled unless Congress acts to end the sequester, but lawmakers have given no signs of such compromise.
www.greatfallstribune.com...

So is North Korea making real threats or is DoD Fing with us and showing yet more reasons they need funds back ASAP.

Oh BTW, if you think that money is that importnat look at this:
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

I feel ya... I don't know either except the thought of people dying is so sad.

I am not so sure China will do anything either as my thinking indicates if they were going to do anything they would have done it by now.

Kim has done a lot of talking thus far, but I have this nagging feeling his talk is about over and he is going to act before anything is done prior.

We have tried to be proactive by issuing more sanctions but that is only stirring his hate.

In order for you to stop Kims actions you must first understand what led to these actions, I am on the fence on the whole nuclear issue because Libya denounced their nuclear program and got invaded. Right now I am going back to 50s or even earlier to fully understand this conflict. From what I have learned from the Pale vs Israel issue is that if you start post 1948 you will not understand what is going on.

The UN just approved more sanctions on NK. What is going to happen next?

reply to post by texasgirl


Thing is who are the sanctions hurting? Lil Kim? I bet he gets a lot sent from china etc. No it is the people.
Should the people rise up? maybe but do we help them?
Tricky situation all round.

reply to post by chishuppu


Thats the thing.... I do understand what is going on post 1948 and I don't like it.

With the understanding though comes more frustration because there is nothing I can do to save innocent lives.

When Bush got all excited about the "shock and awe", the media and people played right into the sickness and its turned my stomach ever since. That is when I began investigating.

I don't want to get this thread off course though...

What I would like is war talk and wars to cease. That will never happen as long as man is on this Earth though. Greedy a## leaders stripping the Earth of its resources is also killing our planet... but hey... who cares. We are making that money honey!

reply to post by MamaJ


I can tell you that the Korean people (the south Koreans that is) are a very proud people. Very friendly and out going when I lived there.

Mention North Korea to them, and they'd turn and spit on the ground. They feared for the actual NK people, but the hate for the NK government was very obvious.

I can actually say I've been to NK. Up at the DMZ at Panmunjom when I was 12. In the main meeting house, you can step over the border and walk about, so I was 12 feet into NK, heh.

The whole time the NK solders were at the windows waving, laughing and giving us the middle finger. Some of the most un professional solders I've ever seen.

Most of what I saw of SK was a very prosperous country. The markets in Seoul are jammed pack with people selling anything you can imagine. The country sides covered with all sorts of farms.

One thing I've noticed in a lot of these threads about NK, is little to no mention of the SK people themselves in a lot of cases. I can tell you when I was there for the "Ax Handle" incident where NK solders crossed the DMZ and killed service personnel trimming the tree, the ROK of SK was ready to load up their tanks and invade NK right then and there. My dad said the US and UN forces had a heck of a time calming them (the SK people) down. They were very pissed off.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
reply to post by goou111

 

IF he were to attempt a nuke on the USA, it would be shot down.

How can you take that for granted? 3 commercial airliners did what they wanted to do without any hassle, russian subs reached us waters using brit sub signatures, they just get where they want when they want without any opposition, like they did at guam last week, military constantly uses commercial jets or at least something with a civilian jet signature to get their ops on site without being detected on radar...

That talk that nothing can reach the US has been and still is put to the test over and over and keeps failing over and over... if I wanted to attack the US with a nuclear bomb, what... you think its radar signature would be "heres an icbm - calculate route - oh its heading to L.A" - it has been shown, mostly by russia, that us technology is really easy to bypass.

Now... ok, I do think that would be a suicide for NK to attack the US and that the said scenario is highly improbable, unless of course you start going deep into a conspiracy line of thought (china being the huge variable). If they were so sure about China's position I'm sure that the US would have already responded to the pleads of SK to teach a lesson to NK, but they dont do that, so there must be much more to that - specially since to attack NK you need a good excuse, a defense act, not be the first to attack. On the other hand one can also think that if NK havent done anything till now its because maybe they dont have china's support either (china again the big variable).

Then yea we have little kim... altho yes he cries for attention, that kinda makes him a dangerous loose cannon. I mean... ok, we kinda take him as harmless but his cries for attention may get the better of him someday and he CAN do something. Although I dont think would be wise to do such a thing to the US.

Hes like those fat kids we all made fun in the 1st grade... sure he was harmless but we never really know if tomorrow hes going to show up and kill the whole classroom even if it has dire consequences to himself - he just wanted to prove a point even tho he can die afterwards. But like that fat kid manages to kill the whole classroom before being taken down, NK can also attack the US before the US takes NK down - thing is, the damage will still be done.

He cant wait to show his military power... and hes a boy crying for attention sat on a big pile of dangerous hardware - funny thing is, the US doesnt do anything about it, yet when they wanted to attack Iraq for no reason, the "possible existence" of WMDs were the perfect excuse to do it. They can pull that one off in NK and would be a lot easier since the US wouldnt need to do false reports about WMDs about NK since they do have them. Thing is... even a preemptive attack against NK would take for the US to get a mentality like "yes we're going to take a few nukes in our soil, but its for the best and future of mankind that we rid the world of NK" - because if cornered little kim would go out in a blaze of glory sending everything he has against the US and some of them would actually do a LOT of damage. Then theres all the chain reaction

Still NK is a very complicated scenario and little Kim is a very dangerous kid. And the US cant afford a big dent. Its a very hard opponent the one who has nothing to lose.

To blindly trust your defense capabilities is a mistake.

So yes... Lil Kim = + bunch of nukes (china = set var %) = ??

The US is taking the right action against NK which is "maybe if we ignore him he'll go away" - yea... I'd do the same, but that can only do so much, its a question of "if and when" but until then "shhh let him talk and pray hes joking again".