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Originally posted by Hecate100Jesus does not fulfill the requirements of Messiah according to Judaism, for the Messiah is expected to defeat Judaism's enemies and restore the nation of Israel.
Christianity then took the role of Messiah even further, turning the militaristic role into a spiritual one via "being saved by grace". This is not a concept found in Judaism, as people are either good or bad according to their nature and will achieve salvation through their own acts and observances of the Torah.
Further, if Judaism and Christianity are "the same religion", then why is it that only Christians will benefit from the Rapture, while according to Judaism, the world will be destroyed except for Israel?
The Messiah was no longer a man, transformed into a being with the powers and attributes of a deity. No matter how revered Moses, Kings David & Solomon and are to the Jews, they are still regarded as men. The Messiah awaited by the Jews is a man, and even though he is to be the blessed of God, he will remain a flesh-and-blood, Jewish man. God is God, and man is man. Christianity blurs this distinction in a way unacceptable to Jewish religious thought.
The hostility exhibited by Jesus in the N.T. towards the Pharisees stems from the latter's observance of the Mishnah (early Talmud). So from the start, there is a division between the religion of Jesus' followes and that of the Jews.
Later developments in both religions widened the gap, to the extent that Maimonides in the Mishnah Torah condemns Christians as wicked people heading "to the pit of destruction". On the other side, Christians feel that none of the observances so crucial to Judaism are necessary due to the death of Jesus on the cross, and view the Jews as being in error and doomed to damnation.
In the end game prophesized by both, each claims an assured victory and destruction for the other, and this alone should negate any illusion that they are one and the same.
While I do not question your faith, Jakko, I do question your scholarship. Do you also maintain that Christianity and Islam are the same religion?
Originally posted by JoeyC
Anything that tells you how to think is brainwashing. all religions tell you what is considered right and wrong- they all tell you how you should think. I dont need to be told that killing someone is wrong and i dont need to be told how to live my life- that is mental slavery. I dont want people to be slaves i want them to be free.
And what research have you done into the history and creation of the bible?? none i bet. Do you just believe what your church/priest/school told you or was it plain good faith?......Your response to Damned about contradictions in the bible shows that you have not read the bible or have not understood it.
Christianity trashes human virtues, is mysogynistic, homophobic, creates unneccassary divisions in society, is responsible for the brainwashing and subsequent deaths of thousands of 'martyrs'.
please understand that i am not at all angry at you or being prejudiced towards you when making these statements because my reasons are based on evidence and logic. I can give further detail to support my arguments if neccessary. thankyou and respect-JoeyC
God gave us brains, and we are supposed to think and to form our own opinions. Noone tells you how to think.
This argument can also be used at those throwing the contradictions at christians. There are so many ways to look at things, and todays times and cultures are so different from how it was back then, you can not base a few quick assumptions on the few lines that you have read.
You're wrong. Christianity does not trash human virtues
is not homophobic
and is not responsible for any brainwashing or death
Originally posted by JoeyC
By taking a Christian viewpoint you can easily become biased until it becomes second nature. Your mind will be fixed with second hand notions and Christian morals and these cloud a persons power of critical thought and reason.
Christianity ultimately ends up doing your thinking for you, you will base important decisions first from a Christian viewpoint and second (or not at all) from YOUR viewpoint of reason.
Ultimately i see Christianity as a dangerous pacifier of the human will to resist persectution with notions such as 'if you are struck, turn the other cheek' and 'the meek will inherit the Earth'- sounds to me like Jesus is saying look just put up with it, you'l get what you deserve when your dead as long as you just shut up.
Because I am opposing Christianity you assume i know nothing about it? I was a Christian for 14 years I have read and understood the bible. It does contain many contradictions, that is a black and white fact that cant be denied.
It does trash human virtue, nature and morals when your mind is overwritten with Christian morals and does your thinking for you- even if you havent realised it yet.
I looked at the webpage that you provided and it is about a christian doing the right thing and helping a gay friend not feel sinful and telling them that you are who you are. However it seems that this way the unchristian thing to do. The christian thing to do would have been to tell them that being gay IS in fact a sin. I typed in 'christian teaching on homosexuality' into google and all the result pages told me christian belief was that homosexuality is wrong, homosexuals ARE persecuted by christians.
Not responsible for any death..........can you really say you believe that?
Thousands of Christians have died as martyrs for this their faith
The holy war of the crusades was plain genocide
[edit on 2-11-2004 by JoeyC]
1. Christianity was not created for population-control/brainwashing/worldorders etc.
When Christianity grew after Jesus departure, leaders of the world were afraid of this new "movement" and a lot of countries forbid the Christian religion. Today some countries still forbid Christianity.
2. The bible was not created by "a few smart old men".
Any research into the history and creation of the bible and the history as presented in the bible leads to the inevitable conclusion that bible must have been written by a lot of people over a huge period of time.
There is no conspiracy.
3. What people who call themselves Christians do wrong, can not be used as an excuse to bash Christianity.
Yes a lot of horrible things happened in the past, some of it was done by people who said they were doing in the name of the Christian God.
One must realize that the bible is clear enough about violence and condemning through the example of Jesus, people who violated the rules of God in the name of God were really doing it in the name of their own agenda. Christianity did not cause any harm, humans did.
4. Christianity is not based off, inspired by or derived from any other religion in existance.
Some people like to yell around Christianity "borrowed" some concepts from other religions like paganism.
Truth is that the concepts of Christianity are documented throughout history, and that since Christianity is not some fictional storyline (point 2) it can't be based off of any other religion. (www.comereason.com)
5. Christians are not perfect, neither are they "better" than nonchristians.
Do not let anyone tell you you are going to hell. Christians do not know these kind of things, only God does.
Also don't think of christians as hypocrits just because they do the same things wrong as everyone else. Christians are just like normal people, with the same struggles, problems, fears and mistakes.
6. Last, today there are a lot of groups that use the bible, Jesus or related concepts to promote their own ideas.
Mormons, KKK, Jehovas, most of todays cults, all share the fact that they are somehow related to Christianity. Fact is that they twisted christianity to match their own agenda and that these religions are no longer about the core elements of Christianity; grace, love and a God sacrificing himself to restore an ancient inbalance of sin.
Originally posted by Jakko
pilot, keep your ignorant statements for yourself if you are unable to give them thought okay?
Originally posted by Jakko
Jesus was powerfull and could have ordered 5000 angels to kill every single jew[edit on 2-11-2004 by Jakko]
Originally posted by iceofspades
Woah woah waoh, Jakko that was way out of line. Regardless of bias, there was nothing ignorant about his statement.
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Yes - this was a Truly Idiotic statement Indeed!!! You just succeeded in Making Jesus sound like Hitler & Angels behave like Nazi Murderers.
Originally posted by Jakko
If that is the case you truly fail to understand what I am saying.
I should probably edit that part, as it's quite obvious it were jews.
Jesus supporters were jews as well.