Sequestration devastation? The facts show otherwise.

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posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:12 PM
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With the amount of doom coming from DC, they should be authors of Nirubu threads!


The way I understand it is DoD has to cut 1% of their increase in budget while DC has to cut 1% in their increase in discretionary spending.

The DoD is going after GS civilians (as illustrated by the poster in this thread) as well as hiring freezes and early retirements at major facilities.

The cuts DC has to make are just grandstanding.

They could cut MORE by not allowing ANY increase in spending.

Get that?

MORE COULD BE SAVED IF THEY JUST DIDN'T INCREASE SPENDING!!!

They could keep DA civilians with no furlough, they could keep all programs going with no lay-offs and SAVE MORE if they just kept spending at the same rate as the previous year!




posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by iwan2ski
reply to post by jdub297
 

As a DoD Employee, we were told just yesterday by our Base Commander to expect a 20% decrease in our pay starting mid April if the sequestration goes into effect March 1st. Meanwhile congress is giving themselves a pay raise. The arguement I've heard is that the government wouldn't save much if "they" took a pay cut, but by cutting the federal civilan DoD budget they could make a difference.

It's hardly an impact as a whole on the US debt, but to the individual giving up 20% of their pay could snowball onto everyone else.

Now imagine if another 50,000 DoD employees do the same. That means Verizon would lose alot of customers and start laying off some of thier employees to stay a float. Which then, trickles down to every to other buisness as they start losing customers and then lay off their employees. Then so on and so forth....


I can empathize.

I was raised in San Antonio, where we were home to Kelly, Lacklamd and Randolph AFB; Stinson Field, Ft. Sam Houston and Brooke Army Medical Center, Medina Base Arms Depot, Wilford Hall Medical Ctr., Martindale Army Air Field, Camp Bullis, and the Brooks Air Force Base and the School of Aerospace Medicine.
The first astronauts were tested and trained here.
The first military flight took place here.
The largest plane of its time, the XC-99, flew here and lives here today.
80% of the city's economy was military-dependent.

Until BRAC.
Today, most of that is gone.
The city and the people adapted and survived.
You may have seen the Mayor give the Keynote speech at the Dems convention.

We were dependent upon the feds for our welfare, or so we'd been led to believe.
Instead of panic, we adapted and moved into logisitics and business incubation.
We made oursleves more attractive to tourists.

San Antonio survives very well without the feds hand-feeding us.
You'll make it through this, too. Have faith , and use the resources you've acquired from your DoD experience. Your kids may need to text less, but it will work out.
Good luck.
jw



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by jdub297
 

I would just like to add to your post that the grave furlough of gov't employees that is being talked about isn't as grave as it's made out to be. Basically, the employees will get a 20% pay cut by only working and being paid for 4 days vice 5. So, some will get 3 day weekends, others will get another unpaid day off.


When BRAC cut our fed support, many employers shifted to 4-day weeks. Many employees got 2nd jobs, or started new ones catering to the laid-off or utilizing the facilities vacated by the military. What was once the world's largest hangar, is now a logistics center and rail-transport "port."

People and businesses adapt.

jw



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 

Easy to say that when it isn't you right? Just so you know some of us are making sacrifices beyond this to maintain such equipment that ensures safe travel of airliners; point A to B. It merely isn't a 20% pay cut, but also unneeded overtime to cover such reduction. It is FUBAR all around.


The military abandoned Stinson Field and everyone panicked. Some entrepreneurs took charge, converted it, and now it is a self-sufficxient civilian portal.
Weaning from the federal teat is scary, but it makes you grow independent.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Feltrick
reply to post by iwan2ski
 


And you are correct that this could have a trickle down affect on local economies. Economies dependent on government employees.

I believe that the heyday of GS jobs is coming to an end. The military will have to go back to doing those jobs themselves which means more overtime for them...unpaid overtime as they are salaried. I'm not saying all GS jobs will go away, but I bet GS7 command secretaries could be on the chopping block in the future, along with other low level positions.

Again, I am sorry that you folks are caught in the middle of a political battle. That said, Congress should vote to reduce their pay AND put a moratorium on future raises. I'm sure there are other ways to come up with 85 million in savings without taking from employees.


See my replies, above.

Dozens of cities and thousands of businesses thought they couldn't survive without federal $$ after BRAC.
Those who adapted have done well; those who didn't are gone. There's nothing constant but change.
Complacency will destroy any business plan.



posted on Feb, 23 2013 @ 11:30 PM
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A message from your President:




posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by ownbestenemy
 

Easy to say that when it isn't you right? Just so you know some of us are making sacrifices beyond this to maintain such equipment that ensures safe travel of airliners; point A to B. It merely isn't a 20% pay cut, but also unneeded overtime to cover such reduction. It is FUBAR all around.


The military abandoned Stinson Field and everyone panicked. Some entrepreneurs took charge, converted it, and now it is a self-sufficxient civilian portal.
Weaning from the federal teat is scary, but it makes you grow independent.




I would love to provide my very specific skill set to the public via private enterprise but the Government has a monopoly on it (unless I want to go to Iraq, Afghanistan, or another desert paradise). Here in the states, only Federal workers maintain the equipment (with very few exceptions) that help a plane navigate from point A to point B.

The people "hate" monopolies but love the Government; the biggest monopoly of them all....go figure.
edit on 24-2-2013 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 09:02 AM
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from these covert UN puppets you bet i fully believe...the only devastation is to be found in how they further UN agenda implementation

i believe this is covert ploy in part to implement UN agenda 21 in america
i made a thread about what seems to me...writing on the wall that is will include
reason to shutdown some national parks
in depth study of what i say is in this thread...sequestration partially a cover for agenda 21 implementation
edit on 24-2-2013 by lasvegasteddy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by jdub297
 


The devastation from sequestration is an overestimation of the valuation given to the ruination of this great nation.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 11:35 AM
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What is everyone's thoughts on the "democratic proposal to replace the first year of sequestration" that was proposed in the last couple of weeks?


The American Family Economic Protection Act includes:

New revenue from the wealthiest Americans and biggest corporations: $55 billion:
The American Family Economic Protection Act includes the Buffett Rule, which reduces the deficit by $54 billion by making sure that taxpayers with a gross adjusted income above $1 million cannot pay tax at a lower effective tax rate than middle class families. Specifically, it would require these taxpayers to pay a 30 percent tax on all of their adjusted gross income (less charitable contributions), phased in between $1 million and $2 million. The proposal also eliminates a tax break that encourages companies to ship job overseas by denying tax deductions for costs associated with outsourcing, reducing the deficit by less than a billion dollars. And it eliminates a special tax loophole now enjoyed by the oil industry by including oil from tar sands among the petroleum products that are subject to taxes that support the oil spill liability trust fund, which would reduce the deficit by $2 billion.

Responsible defense cuts: $27.5 billion:
The American Family Economic Protection Act includes modest reductions in the overall level of
defense spending phased in responsibly to time with the troop drawdown in Afghanistan in 2015,
and continuing through 2021. The reduction would be about $3 billion in Fiscal Years 2015 and
2016, and then would rise slowly to a high of about $5 billion in Fiscal Year 2021.

Responsible domestic cuts: $27.5 billion:
The American Family Economic Protection Act saves $27.5 billion over 10 years by ending direct
payments, which are currently provided regardless of yields, prices, or farm income.


www.chn.org...

Personally, I think if we could just reduce the amount of payments we send out in error by 10% each year we could reach these amounts. Why aren't we focusing on waste? For the last ten years we've been sending out $110 Billion - $150 Billion EACH YEAR in error and/or to people who don't qualify for benefits.



edit on 24-2-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
What is everyone's thoughts on the "democratic proposal to replace the first year of sequestration" that was proposed in the last couple of weeks?


The American Family Economic Protection ... .


www.chn.org...

Personally, I think if we could just reduce the amount of payments we send out in error by 10% each year we could reach these amounts. Why aren't we focusing on waste? For the last ten years we've been sending out $110 Billion - $150 Billion EACH YEAR in error and/or to people who don't qualify for benefits.

CHN.org was establisahed to prevent responsible allocation of scarce government direct-payments through "block grants" that would allow state to determine the best way to spend THEIR money!

Look at the organization's constituent agencies: the 1st name on the list is AFCSME.
www.chn.org...

How about we cut fundung across the board to 2008 levels, when schools were full of teachers, no firefighters or other first-responders had been laid off, there were still construction jobs and job-training programs, and no banks or automakers had yet needed to be bailed out?

Things were working well as far as government-run programs/jobs were concerned until the housing bubble and financial bailouts; so, why not "reset" policy and funding to those levels and let the taxpayers spend the rest as they see fit?

We no longer have an Iraq war to pay for and Afghanistan is all but over. According to the Obamqa admionistration, Government Motors and Chrysler are flying high and do not need our help anymore. Where's all that extra money now?

There should be tons of extra money to spend on social programs without the need for any other tax increases or spending increases!

jw



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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History most often shows that we get what we never expected. The lead up to the crash of '29 is a good example. The Y2k horror and 2012 meltdowns are others.

If we expect nothing, we'll get walloped. If we expect a major crash and burn... we might see gas prices go down.

It's all a game. The gods have a sense of humor and love laughing at us, lol.



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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You don't even discuss what programs the money will be cut from.

Your argument amounts to "it's only 2% of the budget so it shouldn't matter."

You say the word "discretionary" like it's contagious. Let me explain to you the components of the US budget:

25% is military and national defense, 20% is medicare(going to those who either paid into it their entire lives so they had it when they retire, or people who have circumstances where they can't work, like disabled people), 20% is Social Security(Something people pay into all their lives, and not to mention every country ever has had a pension form of some type), 20% is other mandatory spending, and finally 15% is discretionary spending.

Now I ask you, do you even know what the discretionary portion is funding?
Most of it funds jobs! Or gives back to the community in some shape or form.

Republicans want to cut funding to that, but absolutely refuse to touch the whopping 25% that goes to our military?



Obviously something needs to be done about the deficit. BUT the outrageous military spending needs to be the first on the chopping block.
I must question a person's ethics, or sanity, who refuses to cut military spending, but demands we first stop feeding our hungry or educating our children!

oh and our tax code needs reformed. How can multi billion dollar companies actually RECEIVE tax refunds.
Facebook received 400 MILLION dollars this past year!


edit on 24-2-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 


You don't need to explain anything, but you could sure learn a few..

The DoD is 18.7% of the budget, it gets 50% of the cuts.

If you'd bothered to read the thread, link and Act, you'd know that the sequester by its own terms requires "across the board" cuts. And, if you'd read my earlier posts, there's really no "cut" at all, but a reduction in budgeted increases!

There's absolutely no reason we can't go back to the funding levels of 2008 and survive. We don't have wars and bailouts, the ecomnomy is in "recovery" according to every administration official with voice and their media sycophants.

Asking administrators to find 5% or 10% of waste and belt-tightening shouldn't bring tears to their eyes and panic in the streets. American taxpayers have had to do it for 4 years in a row.

jw



posted on Feb, 24 2013 @ 11:16 PM
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Just for argumentive S&Gs, how much is the US taxpayer giving to the MB controlled Egypt government? How many Billions are being limo delivered overseas? 85b could be cut from that if they really gave a crap at all. These corrupt traitors really need a pink slip.....



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by kudegras
 


I don't disagree with you here. The main point though is, our Government cannot find 2% out of a budget of $3.3 trillion. 2%, as pointed out in the OP, that is an increase over last years spending. More and more and more and I fight it everyday in my job. I despise fraud, waste and abuse and am always kept at arms length because I am that guy at work who questions why we need a 50" TV or why we need a new work-truck; to which I get the answer "because we need a bigger budget". It makes me sick. But I try and fight it.


Rush Limbaugh said on his radio show that the U.S. government will spend $15 Billion more
in 2013 than it did in 2012!

We have 2 choices:

1) A little pain now or

2) A disaster later on

Think long and hard then make your choice.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
With the amount of doom coming from DC, they should be authors of Nirubu threads!


The way I understand it is DoD has to cut 1% of their increase in budget while DC has to cut 1% in their increase in discretionary spending.

The DoD is going after GS civilians (as illustrated by the poster in this thread) as well as hiring freezes and early retirements at major facilities.

The cuts DC has to make are just grandstanding.

They could cut MORE by not allowing ANY increase in spending.

Get that?

MORE COULD BE SAVED IF THEY JUST DIDN'T INCREASE SPENDING!!!

They could keep DA civilians with no furlough, they could keep all programs going with no lay-offs and SAVE MORE if they just kept spending at the same rate as the previous year!


Peggy Noonan spelled it out clearly in the WSJ.

With Obama it is always : Government by freakout

Scare the American people.



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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I love how "reducing an increase" is poured out to the masses as a "devastating cut"...

Talking to the choir, I know.

They just want to scare everyone so they can keep shoveling that money into their own pockets through connections to the Military industrial complex and other government contractors.

Think about it...the companies that provide 'common" things through the GSA and walk away with bucket loads of cash...I wonder how many of our "representatives" are owners or investors (or their families are) in these types of companies...of course they don't want to cut spending...that would be the same to them as roasting the goose that laid the golden egg...

Criminals...all of them. Criminals that lie and steal from us and somehow manage to get people to think if they steal less, we will be in bad times for us "commoners"...
edit on 2/25/2013 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremiah65
I love how "reducing an increase" is poured out to the masses as a "devastating cut"...

Talking to the choir, I know.

They just want to scare everyone so they can keep shoveling that money into their own pockets through connections to the Military industrial complex and other government contractors.

Think about it...the companies that provide 'common" things through the GSA and walk away with bucket loads of cash...I wonder how many of our "representatives" are owners or investors (or their families are) in these types of companies...of course they don't want to cut spending...that would be the same to them as roasting the goose that laid the golden egg...

Criminals...all of them. Criminals that lie and steal from us and somehow manage to get people to think if the steal less, we will be in bad times...


Oh look! It's the sequester monster!!!!!!!
- Government by Freakout !!! -




posted on Feb, 25 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
[ And, if you'd read my earlier posts, there's really no "cut" at all, but a reduction in budgeted increases!



Funny, you keep saying this, yet no "budgeted increases" exist. Since we have been operating under continuing resolutions for the most of the past three years, all spending has been frozen at the 2010 level. So, no, these are not reductions in budgeted increases in any way. They are reductions from 2010 spending levels already in place.

Unless you happen to be employed by an agency which generates revenue. Then the impact of sequester is minimal.





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