Why I believe the bible

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Quite honestly it says. Your father loves you, you know he wanted you because he created you. Accept his love and choose to live with him. Your father is love and can only exist in love. When you choose sin over love your father has to leave you, because he is love. Because he is love you know that he will always return to you, when you turn to him. Love keeps no record of wrongdoing and God is love. If you can believe in him and through the power of God overcome sin you will know him. In this life, today.

Ah...but terms and conditions may, can, and will apply. There is fine print all around, in between, over, under, behind, and embedded in every single bit of what you just posted. Exceptions and conditions galore.

Nope you have to go to religion to find terms and conditions. What I said above is what the bible says, no terms, no conditions.

Unless you consider love a term and condition. Than by all means you are bound by the terms set forth by love to love. You receive love unconditionally but you only feel love when you give love. These are your terms and conditions.

Anyone who tells you that thier is more conditions than to love speaks a lie. If you don't know how to love turn to Jesus because he will teach you in scipture and in spirit. This also is the promise, that love, love's you so much, that despite anything you have ever done it still only wants one thing, to teach you how to love.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Every single translation says the same thing.

I will write you a follow up post. We will See if I can show god hasn't preserved these modern translations from corruption.

Not very old and there is "real science", you know the "scientific method" science that can be repeated by anyone.

I am not bashing science.

No of course not. People don't use the "scientific method" unless they support your argument.

I am telling the truth, the truth should not be considered a bash.

Please keep this in mind

What you are doing is bashing.

I am asking questions.

You are unwilling to believe that I could have found God in the bible.... The problem you are having is you don't believe me

I don't have a problem with god-belief. Nor would I have a problem believing all of nature is inclusive to god's creation and therefore god can be 'found' in anything. If that's what is meant. Okay

What I don't believe, and what I have a problem with, is your claim the Bible is the Word of God. That it contains god's thoughts. I have said this many times. Your problem is you can't separate the two even for sake of conversation. I repeat, I am not arguing against god or your belief in god. You claim evidence to show the Bible is connected to divinity, I am merely investigating the truthfulness of your claim.

If you are here to win a debate I am sorry but you have already lost because you refuse to accept that I tell you the truth.

Can we drop this whole 'win' 'lose' stuff please. Can't this be about truth and pursuit of it?? And yes I do refuse to accept it as truth. Sorry. Without good reason I will not just accept it. God gave me a critical mind

You are arguing against my truth, that does not make it any less my truth.

Doesn't make it less your truth, sure. God's truth? I see no reason to believe it transcends your subjective world. That it represents an objective Universal truth.

but you actually think it ok to question my faith and say that it can't be?

Absolutely.

What harm does my faith cause you?

For one it has instilled inside you a disdain for questioning. That harms our discussions

But are you asking me what harm your religion causes as a whole (according to me)? I will answer that too if you want.

Am I attacking you

Yes you most definitely are. And many many others. The implications of your words my friend Here is one specific example. You said earlier an atheistic society would view all crimes as permissible. Meaning atheists are void of morality. Further indicates void of love, compassion, etc. That's an attack on atheists and non-religious.

or condemning you for not believing me? Have I subjected you to judgment as you assumed that I would?

I would say you condemn me for not believing in your belief. No? Okay do you believe I will get to Heaven if I never change my view on this? That's either you doing the judgement or you and god doing it. There is only evidence for the first.

Jesus Christ lives in me and has given me an understanding of the bible that eliminates all contradictions and judgment.

All I am doing is asking you to share that, and with that confidence readily answer my questions and quelch my doubt.

Maybe some Christians believe in Evolution but no Athiests believe in Creation. So Evolution is the atheistic belief, thus it is part of their religion.

So by this logic if a Christian believes in Evolution that Christian is part Atheist......

Yeah doesn't work.

Belief in evolution is neither a part of what Atheism means or a requirement. No doubt most/many atheists do believe in Evolution, but they are not connected.

Argue, point fingers, and sit in judgment of each other. I will leave all of you to religion and I will believe that God loves everyone equally thank you.

God loves Hitler and you equally. Either incredibly benevolent or incredibly malevolent. Jury is still out on that.

What you just described is people. Not specific to religions or atheists. This is what people do.

I believe that we are all immoral.

This is the crux of it. This is the foundational belief that we differ on that serves as the catalyst to many other beliefs we disagree on.

Immorality obviously exists (whether it's relative or universal). It exists and it's a problem. However, there are non-religious and atheistic people in this world that are beacons of light, saints in their own right.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


It is impossible to debate with you because you don't really listen. If I say all of these things are a free gift to everyone, how in the next breath could I condemn you for not accepting them? If the gifts are real you have condemned yourself not to receive them, and if they are not real than I am crazy because I say they are real.

You keep telling me you want to debate the truth. I keep insisting that I am telling the truth. Each time you question me you are calling me a liar. Why not just accept that my truth works for me and be happy for me. If my truth doesn't work for you than find your own truth. If you can't seem to find the truth come back to me and we can talk some more.

My only job is to love you and share with you my testimony. It is up to you whether you want to believe.
You keep accusing me of failing to answer you, yet when I do answer you, you refuse the answer I give you as if I have a different answer to give you. Why not just give me the answer; since you reject my answer surely you have a better one?

And yes for you it is all about winning and losing. You feel that you must win the debate that the bible is not the inspired word of God and I clearly am telling not only is it the word of God, Christ lives in me, speaks to me, speaks through me, reveals the meaning of scripture to me. How can you argue with my claim? Nothing I could do can prove my claim but I have no reason to lie. There is nothing for me to gain in saying the bible is the word of God, nothing for me to gain to tell you Christ lives in me, nothing to gain by telling you the church is wrong, the promise is literally for everyone.

How does "everyone is loved" fit Hitler? I don't know? Got a better answer? What I do know for certain is the one who created will surely judge all men fairly just like he said, without favoritism. Jew and Gentile alike. Because I know for certain that no man escapes God's judgment I leave the judging to him when it comes to spiritual matters.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Why not just give me the answer; since you reject my answer surely you have a better one?

You should not believe anything is absolute truth without absolute reason to do so.

If you feel you have this and it makes you happy then yes I can be happy for you But if you ever voice it publicly people should be allowed to voice dissent. If you are not open to that, all you are doing is preaching. Don't pretend it was ever a 'debate'.

Christ lives in me, speaks to me, speaks through me, reveals the meaning of scripture to me. How can you argue with my claim?

I can't argue experiential knowledge. I cannot argue your claim to direct revelation. Thank you for finally answering that question. I did not know you were claiming you were a prophet.

I can argue science. I can argue morality. I can argue many aspects outside of 'revelation' that you brought up. However, that discussion is apparently not of interest to you.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

And yes for you it is all about winning and losing. You feel that you must win the debate that the bible is not the inspired word of God and I clearly am telling not only is it the word of God, Christ lives in me, speaks to me, speaks through me, reveals the meaning of scripture to me. How can you argue with my claim? Nothing I could do can prove my claim but I have no reason to lie. There is nothing for me to gain in saying the bible is the word of God, nothing for me to gain to tell you Christ lives in me, nothing to gain by telling you the church is wrong, the promise is literally for everyone.

I can very easily argue with your claim. Have you ever heard of NLP? Neurolinguistic programming? Have you ever heard of witchcraft? True witchcraft? It sounds crazy, but it's the best word I have for something so magical, so influential.You can make almost anyone do anything. There's a reason older civilizations adored having gods. It was political power, emotional power. It was the most effective tool in the game. And do you think, in a material world, such a weapon would provide no temptation? Wine and dine pays much better than devout denial of earthly pleasures.

And in the end, a subdued yet inspired society is much longer lasting than any other. Generations of gluttons trodding on the spiritually drugged life blood of their nations.., politicians, clergy, musicians, television producers and authors, parents and children...Yeah, there are hacks. Back doors and hotkeys to the human mind, and by extension the soul. You can see from the Golden Ratio, the flower of life, the fruit of life, the pyramids, numerology, and sound control. You can see it in how sound waves interact with water, one pure note producing synchronicity. Religion is the practice of controlling the mind for spiritual benefit. It's the dark side to spirituality, and it's a very fine line between the two.

So having said all of that, I have three questions for you: do you believe (read: believe you know) that Jesus of Nazareth is the only way to salvation? That the "God" he represents is the One True God? And that to deny either of them is to condemn yourself, no matter what reason?

Answer all three of those questions for me, please.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Nope you have to go to religion to find terms and conditions. What I said above is what the bible says, no terms, no conditions.

I have three questions for you.

Do you believe (read: believe you know) that Jesus of Nazareth is the only way to salvation? That the "God" he represents is the One True God? And that to deny either of them is to condemn yourself, no matter what reason?

Answer all three of those questions for me, please.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Nope you have to go to religion to find terms and conditions. What I said above is what the bible says, no terms, no conditions.

I have three questions for you.

Do you believe (read: believe you know) that Jesus of Nazareth is the only way to salvation? That the "God" he represents is the One True God? And that to deny either of them is to condemn yourself, no matter what reason?

Answer all three of those questions for me, please.

Yes Jesus is the only way to salvation, but there is more than one way to find him. It is even possible for him to be found by some of the other names he goes by. ie, love, light, ext....

There is only one God, anyone who believes in a singular expression of something that could be considered responsible for creation believes in the same God, because there is only one. The one way to know for sure you have found God, you will have found true love for the first time in your life. Can't really explain it any better.

On the last one that would be no. The bible even says that you can speak against both the father and son and be saved, but not against the Holy Spirit.

This would mean speaking against the obvious power of God. Like when the Pharisees' asked Jesus if he was demon possessed. It was obvious that the power of the Holy Spirit was at work in him, but they refused to repent and seek the truth. So it is unlikely that it is possible at this time for anyone to speak against the Holy Spirit as the bible speaks of this.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Yes Jesus is the only way to salvation, but there is more than one way to find him. It is even possible for him to be found by some of the other names he goes by. ie, love, light, ext....

I would prefer not to call the aeonic force by a name so heavily steeped in dogma. It tends to contort the meaning and intention of the aeon. It should never be defined by any one example, because it's an entire spectrum, a web of possibilities. Whatever you can dream of or imagine, that's what it is - creation.

Just so we're clear:

1. an immeasurably long period of time; age
2. (Astronomy) a period of one thousand million years
3. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) (often capital) Gnosticism one of the powers emanating from the supreme being and culminating in the demiurge

I'm looking at definition # 3.

dem·i·urge (dm-ûrj)
n.
1. A powerful creative force or personality.
2. A public magistrate in some ancient Greek states.
3. Demiurge A deity in Gnosticism, Manichaeism, and other religions who creates the material world and is often viewed as the originator of evil.
4. Demiurge A Platonic deity who orders or fashions the material world out of chaos.

de·i·ty (d-t, d-)
n. pl. de·i·ties
1. A god or goddess.
2.
a. The essential nature or condition of being a god; divinity.

We mortals can become demiurgic deities through communion with the aeon. A very, very long time ago, we held the secret - but someone decided they didn't want us to possess that knowledge. I couldn't tell you were it started, I can only tell you it continues out of ignorance. And we are meant to discover it, to utilize it...only by achieving that state can we unleash the full range of possibilities for our creativity - and by extension, our experience of the physical realms - which is the path history shows us. That's how we've gotten this far, but we've been distracted into taking numerous detours by the temptations of our physical vessels. But how else do we learn? We must practice! We must exercise our wings if we want to fly.

There is only one God, anyone who believes in a singular expression of something that could be considered responsible for creation believes in the same God, because there is only one. The one way to know for sure you have found God, you will have found true love for the first time in your life. Can't really explain it any better.

I don't believe in any conscious entity. My thoughts are that consciousness leads to thoughts, thoughts lead to emotions, emotions lead to bias, and bias leads to judgment. And given the properties attributed to this being, judgment would be akin to suicide. Millions of individual suicides. Why put your son on the cross when you're just going to put yourself there when Judgment Day comes? All those tiny pieces that will burn forever but never die, while it feels like 85% of you went to hell with them. Kinda makes me want to add "sadomasochism" to his list of diagnoses. I mean, any man who kills his children because they didn't grow up to be what he wanted is seriously twisted.

"But he's not a man - he's God!"

Yeah, well, he acts human enough to judge him by human standards. I've seen people just like him inside the White House. Made in his image, right? Haha, sheds a whole new light on that little riddle...

On the last one that would be no. The bible even says that you can speak against both the father and son and be saved, but not against the Holy Spirit.

Ah, but do you really know what the "Holy Spirit" is? Do you know its properties, its functions, its nature? Do you know its natural motion, where it comes from, or what you really want from it?

The Holy Spirit is not an end-all guardian. It is not an omnipotent skeleton key. It's very comparable to the Force in Star Wars. Less woo woo, but just as pervasive. It's intellectual gravity. It is a force responsible for both information and physical form alike. It comes in all manner of languages and mediums, can be as different as a French poem to a football program on the radio. That much is pretty obvious, considering how many shades of nuance the human mind applies to everything. The unfortunate thing with languages, though, is that they fossilize every idea you put down on paper. For stability's sake, we take ideas and close them in boxes so that 50 years later, our understanding has evolved but those definitions don't change in the slightest. And given how much information we store for future reference, those labels create an anchor that limits our imagination. We recycle new ideas for old ones.

And that is exactly what has happened to the phrase "Holy Spirit". It's kind of funny, though...the oldest definition of the phrase has been completely smothered in layers of interpretation and drunken revision. I eagerly await the revolution of thought, because then we will be forced to refresh and update everything we know and understand about the universe.

This would mean speaking against the obvious power of God. Like when the Pharisees' asked Jesus if he was demon possessed. It was obvious that the power of the Holy Spirit was at work in him, but they refused to repent and seek the truth. So it is unlikely that it is possible at this time for anyone to speak against the Holy Spirit as the bible speaks of this.

As I have mentioned before - for possessing all the power in the universe, Jesus sure acted like he wasn't taking it seriously. If he was sincerely interested in saving every human soul, he would have put on the 4th of July for everyone in the world, and even manifested as a projection in every country in the world. Grant three proofs of his claims, and everyone is ready to listen and take him seriously. That's what I call getting s*** done. You have to know when to grab people by their attention spans and shake them. After he did that, he could have just ruled for the rest of time. What's the use in waiting to save the people? Why not just preserve us? There were a thousand possibilities, all of them exuberant and unmistakeable, but he chose the most minimal and ineffective means of accomplishing his goal. Like Superman taping plastic over a gaping hole in an airplane.

And yes, I am going to second guess such tactics. If he was going to act human, then he should have exhibited a human personality. He showed anger, grief, joy, everything it is to be human. I hate to keep using this example, but let's talking Superman vs The Elites. The closest comparison I can make. He exerted his power rather than allow his people to come to harm. He pushed himself to protect the planet. When's the last time Jesus did that? People say it was "God" or Jesus, but why then doesn't he come down, show himself, reach out a hand, and say, "You are healed. Go and share the news,"?

For having so much power, they seem very reserved with their benevolence.