Chris Kyle (US Sniper) - You see a hero. I see a devil

Originally posted by fishy6

Originally posted by Lingweenie
Murdering other people is not normal behavior whatsoever. It doesn't matter if it's for justice, in the name of god, or terrorizing for the sake of terrorizing.

Obviously not a student of Human behavior.
We are animals on top of the food chain just like any other top predator and Its in our nature to kill, mame, violence etc no matter if you want to admit it or not. Just look what is on broadcast TV lately.

Its been going on for hundreds of thousands of years.

Yes I wish all of it would stop too, but there are just too many psychopaths vs truly peaceful people out there
in the world.

I figure about 2 out of 100 psychopaths so roughly about 140,000,000.

Yes it is natural for animals to kill other animals. But there's a big difference.

Animals kill other animals in order to survive (eat.) However, they are killing a completely separate species. Animals don't eat their own species. This is a characteristic only humans have. And I'm sure you are already aware it is called cannibalism. Killing your own species for pleasure, personal gain, vengeance, or any other reason, is far different than killing a separate species in order to survive by eating.

The only way to look at this is through humane eyes.

Personally I think every life is equal, and for any 1 life to take 100s of others lifes simply because he was ''orderd'' too, is a horrific crime against humanity. And a horrific crime against all that keeps us humane.

Makes me sick....

Also just imagine the 200+ family members of the people he killed who are prolly turning into terrorists as we speak. This is all just a vicious circle of destruction that benifits nobody except a few rich aholes in power.

Originally posted by SneakyStyle

Also just imagine the 200+ family members of the people he killed who are prolly turning into terrorists as we speak. This is all just a vicious circle of destruction that benifits nobody except a few rich aholes in power.

edit on 21-2-2013 by SneakyStyle because: (no reason given)

Chris Kyle was a Navy SEAL Scout Sniper. That means they used him primarily for HVTs (High Value Targets). High Value Targets are known enemies that have significant influence in the area, and have the capability to inflict casualties on Coalition forces. Examples of HVTs are Taliban Cell Leaders, IED makers, Al Qaeda leadership, etc. The families of HVTs know they are terrorists already, and if the family is not also terrorists already, then they probably disagree with their terrorist tactics and would not care if their HVT relative is killed.

Chris Kyle was the best of the best, he would take out the most dangerous, most difficult HVTs from afar. You think he just camped out on a rooftop and sniped anyone walking through the street with a weapon? No! Every kill he had was carefully planned out at a tactical and strategic level, and they maximized this asset of Chris Kyle only against the toughest targets, not just ordinary enemy insurgents. The ordinary insurgents he did end up killing were when he was supporting his unit... for example he shot a woman who was walking up to a group of marines with a hand grenade... and he shot an insurgent who was about to shoot an RPG at a nearby group of marines.

reply to post by TXRabbit


I'm with you on this one. These events only serve to encourage a new generation of our youth to give up their lives, freedom, innocense and become a pawn in a war they will never benefit from. They aren't out fending off enemies they are acquisitioning resources for the government who is cutting back help for their parents and grandparents. It is criminal. I don't know a single person who has joined the military and become a better person, they come back hollow and haunted. It is a scam and a terrible shame that the whole package promises glory and a bright future when it does exactly the opposite. Our kids are out there, fighting and dying because they believe thay are doing some great service to us all and these wars only benefit the 'elite' who stand behind a curtain, pulling strings. Congrats kid, youre a mass murderer and your 'superiors' used you.

He believed what he was doing was noble and for a good cause. Killing 150 people isn't anything to be proud of. I don't see a devil, I don't see a hero, I see a man who thought what he was doing was for the best.

reply to post by TXRabbit


Hello TxRabbit. I haven't logged in for a while, but your post brought me much joy. I'm from central Texas, but was in Southeast Texas tending to family, when the murderer's funeral procession took place. However, my husband happened to be headed home that day and was traveling 35 and called me (while driving) and asked that I look up what was going on with all the flags and We Love You signs, for an endless amount of 35, it would seem, including over-passes, etc...So when I looked it up and found out it was for "America's #1 Sniper", I remember having read of the vet vs. sniper range shooting (just so fishy, you know?!).

I told him that they were celebrating the life of a murderer. We both mused at the state of our own beloved state, echoing the ignorance of our entire country...

American idiots...what more can be said?

To be honest, I don't think Chris Kyle is a devil. While I'm neutral when it comes to the topic of war, it's not fair to dehumanize him by calling him negative things. He is a soldier working for the government, as were the men that stormed the beaches in Normandy or shot down Japanese aircraft in the Pacific during WWII... and surely, nobody's game to call them devils.

reply to post by staciebee


Do you believe that anybody who takes a human life is a murderer?

There is a very old Japanese book called 'The life Giving Sword' written in the 1600's.

In that book there is a passage that goes something like "A sword is tool of destruction. To destroy and kill is against the way of heaven, this makes the sword an object of evil because it goes against the way of heaven. However, if by the killing of a man with a sword, you save the lives of others, this makes the sword an object of good because it gives life and eases the suffering of others"(not an exact quote).

It can very reasonably argued that Kris Kyle prevented the deaths of many US and coalition troops, and Afghan civilians, by taking out the targets he did (that is unless you hold the view that he just went around sniping any person who looked Afghani).

How absolutely smarmy of you OP. You have no idea about how the service works do you? Your analogy that because this guy killed people with a sniper rifle, he is bad, is absurd on its face.

The man joined the service for the same reasons all people do...ie: college, patriotism, or a paycheck. I sincerely doubt this man had intentions of sniping people. He did basic. His rifle scores were off the charts, so while others got sent to infantry, he got sniper school.
Then, he gets dropped into a warzone in a kill or be killed scenario. Tell me OP, if his shoes were on your feet, would you drop your arms and claim you were evil?? His JOB is to protect the troops out in the open against the camel jockeys and their ak 47's. Would it not make him more evil to allow his wards to die without interference?

When people join the service, they pray to God they will never have to kill or be shot at. Fact is, its war...it happens.

Perhaps the OP should have some pertinent information to share like statistics or first hand knowledge of WAR, but as I see it...theres only an opinion...from an armchair quaterback....who doesnt have to fear IED's, mortar attacks, or kidnapping/torture...who then has the balls to claim someone else who does is evil.

Get over smarmy attitude OP and perhaps post a relevent thread with intelligent writing rather than interjecting your opinions on a man who most definitely saved a life or two?

Lately...the front page of ATS looks alot like Yaweh like Productions' front page...and thats not a compliment. Crap like this thread is the epitome of IGNORANCE...don't deny it.

reply to post by TXRabbit


While I do not view him as a devil or evil person, I disagree with him publishing a book and making money on his military career and the fact that he may have killed 160 people. As a veteran myself I feel that military service is something between you and the military, profiting off your service is not right... in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by TXRabbit
Just a little venting here....

The recent killing of accomplished killer and mass-murder Chris Kyle has sparked a wave of fevered idolization and cult-like hero-worship across the nation.

His funeral service was so large it had to be held at Cowboys stadium here in Arlington. I do not follow any organized religion but aren't most of them teaching that it is WRONG to kill? Period?

From the wikipedia entry:

Christopher Scott "Chris" Kyle (April 8, 1974 – February 2, 2013) was a United States Navy SEAL and the most lethal sniper in American military history, with 160 confirmed kills (out of 255 claimed kills),[4][5] although these statistics have not been released by the Pentagon.[7] At the age of 8, Kyle's father taught him to shoot. As a youth, he trained as a bronco rider for the rodeo, which he gave up after a serious injury to his arm. He had intended to volunteer and enlist in the U.S. Marine Corps, and was recruited by the U.S. Army, but eventually enlisted with the U.S. Navy. Kyle served four tours in the second Iraq war, and was awarded the Bronze and Silver Star medals multiple times. Iraqi insurgents dubbed him the "Devil of Ramadi" and offered an increasing bounty for his head. He was shot twice, and was involved in six IED attacks. Kyle was honorably discharged from the U.S. Navy in 2009 in order to spend time with his family. He remained in the spotlight during retirement, and wrote a New York Times bestselling autobiography, American Sniper. Kyle was shot and killed on February 2, 2013, near Chalk Mountain, Texas.

over 150 people killed huh? And people look up to him?

Sorry guys - I see someone who was seriously **SNIP** up, out of touch with humanity and simply a stupid machine used by things and people he couldn't comprehend.

I'd be interested in your thoughts about why this person should be considered a hero.,
thanks

edit on 2/20/2013 by semperfortis because: Watch the profanity

reply to post by DoubleDNH


I have no problem with people profiting off writing books about their life. That is an American way. I wonder do you feel that way about everyone who writes books about their life including politicians, athlete’s successful people.

Your reasoning doesn’t make any sense to me.

Never fear though you should at least give the guy props because all the profits from his book went to charity like wounded warrior program. Someone already mentioned that in this thread, I am just curious if you feel that way about everyone who writes about their life or is it just soldiers who do that you have a problem with?

edit to add

He also got with a manufacturer who produced the same sniper rifle he used and worked out a deal where he made a special edition of 100-150 rifles where he signed along with a certificate and a target he shot with it. All proceeds went to the wounded warrior program



I simply do not understand your mentality on the issue could you explain why it is fine for others but not for soldiers?

I don't see any Hero, I see a bragged, egotist, a real hero would be a humble person, with ture concern for other humans, which i don't know he had any, He bragged he punched Jesse Ventura, he even bragged he killed many more than is on record.
He's dead let him be dead don't speak bad of the dead, let them rest in peace, God will judge in end.

I had friend was in Nam I ask him how many he killed over in Nam, He humble said I don't know, I just fired my weapon.

A true Hero would not be proud of killing anyone, but maybe proud of those that he saved, So yea, Kyle brag about all those you saved, but I could give a good crap about those you murdered, killed, that is something no one should brag about.

R.I. P. Kyle,

reply to post by CaptainOblivious


fact is if all men and women refused to kill another, refused to fight, maim and kill for theircountry or any other reason, then the pollutions/politicians and their handlers would have to sort out their differences and immorality amongst themselves.

when the race matures this is how it will be.

reply to post by OOOOOO


We are still males.Have you ever met a humble fighter pilot when they are still flying?
To get to be the best requires arrogance of spirit,the undying belief in yourself so that pain and hardship don't overwhelm you.
SEALs are a world class pinnacle element.Their people are well beyond the olympic standard.They are just fine being arrogant they've earned it in one of the hardest ways a person can.
Humility would be expected from those who are protected but the country is contrary right now.

Originally posted by atomicn
How is this guy defending my "freedom" last time I checked I got my freedom because the black people stood up to the racist government of the USA and demanded the rights which whites enjoyed.

Chris Kyle didn't stand up to my civil rights. No he killed for a administration that lied to the American Public that Iraq had WMD's; perpetuated a lie that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9-11/Antrax. This guy is a stupid nationalist puppet willing to murder without as much as blinking an eye and asking why is he even killing in said country we invaded.


I got my gun; I can defend myself assholes. I don't need some asshole killing because he is "defending" my freedom.

As we say in the UK, thats a load of bollocks mate. Black people got their freedom in the USA because the majority of white people stood up for them. They didnt stage a slave uprising and overthrow their masters-WHITE people said 'slavery is wrong' and stood up to other white people on your behalf. And you know what, it cost them a war and a lot of lives-the lives of people just like Chris Kyle, who you profess to despise. So why dont you stop dissing him, put your gun away, and read a history book.
PS-before you turn on the UK over slavery, we were the first country in the world to ban it, and we used our navy to enforce the ban. Guess what, that cost lives of military personnel too. But thats OK right, because they were all 'assholes'.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by OOOOOO

 

We are still males.Have you ever met a humble fighter pilot when they are still flying?
To get to be the best requires arrogance of spirit,the undying belief in yourself so that pain and hardship don't overwhelm you.
SEALs are a world class pinnacle element.Their people are well beyond the olympic standard.They are just fine being arrogant they've earned it in one of the hardest ways a person can.
Humility would be expected from those who are protected but the country is contrary right now.

My Dad was a B-17 Bomber Pilot in WWII, I never heard him Brag about anything involving Killing people, he was a Christian, also a 33rd Degree Mason. He taught me the basic Truths by which to live Life, although it may of took awhile for some to sink in.
He also flew fighters and I remember how his Sister told me how, on one occasion she met him at the airport when he flew his self in to the airport in a P-51. Now that was cool.
He never flew again after the war except when he had to, he refused offers from TWA to fly for Howard.

Your terms in speaking of being a Male are along the lowest lines of animal behavior, Lust and such are all of lower status of the Human being, you speak of Ego.

reply to post by OOOOOO


FYI it isn’t being a braggart when he claimed more kills. He is a sniper the only way to count kills is to be able to confirm them sometimes that is not possible maybe you can understand that you cannot always do so. Almost every sniper has a higher kill ration however sometimes they could not be confirmed.

I can see you are a bit upset but you are really speaking from ignorance you could do a little research on the subject matter not just him. The guy is a hero in my book the multiple Bronze and Silver Star proves that. It isn’t bragging it is now part of history. Regardless of how you see it.

You do not know what war is your closest knowledge comes from a Vietnam Vet by your own account. Most soldiers don’t know how many they killed but snipers do which goes back to how you could benefit by doing a little research on the matter.


I asked this question earlier in the thread if the people criticizing even knew what it takes to earn the silver star or bronze star I think for those of you who are quick to judge this Hero you should educate yourselves a little.

Then again those who have never served their country are the hardest to teach about duty honor etc etc. I have even read people say it was just his job. The man did more than just his job. He was a true American Hero and a very brave man. Afterword’s he went on to help others the best way he could I am willing to bet he has done more for others than anyone here that is so hard up to demonize him.

reply to post by Grimpachi
Your the one that does not seem to get it, in terms of ignorance I was drafted in 68, I know snipers up front and personal, They don't know what their confirmed kill is, any more than you know how many hairs are on your ass. I remember one, the sniper shot the dude, a half mile away and didn't know he kill the guy till the next day when they found his body.

SO you talk like your some kind of expert, your not, not even close. Another thing I'm not upset, I am amazed that, someone would think it is so great to kill some innocent person from a great distance, big deal. You have this tiny little planet, that none of this will even matter in a million years and you brag about how great it is to kill someone, that should not be killed to begin with.
A smile on some kids face would beat that all to hell.

How many Americans have been killed by Islamic terrorist in the US since 9/11, Zero, 0, like in none.

How many innocent people have been murdered over oil?

I don't care what you say, anyone that brags about killing women, children or anyone is not great hero, how many of our own men didhe kill by accident, don't want to talk about that one. Huh, got a count.

By the way I kick the # out a special force's lieutenant, and let me tell you there was nothing special about that dude, except he should of never came up from behind me and grabbed my crouch and he won't have gotten a boot in the face.i'llI leave it at that, but I never liked it when someone would poke me and tell me to do something, either.

But you really think all the pain and suffering people inflict on each other on this piece of crap planet is so great and getting some piece of metal to say how great it is to kill your fellowman, that is pretty sad.

In my book it'e not how bad you are, or good you are at hurting others, but how good your are as a human with higher ideals, not someone with the mentality of a animal. at least your not below animal like a rock, rocks are really stupid.

You just don't get it, but most don't either so no big deal, this is the gross physical plane, cause and effect. When you die you give back to nature what was never yours to begin with.

Why are so many troops committing suicide, what rape and murder don't go good with honor and duty, what about brain washing, Back in the day when I was a Marine, they broke 2x4s over our heads, Wow,, Golly, Gee

Just like Kyle punched Jesse Ventura, funny Jesse doesn't recall it, he musta hit him really hard.
Well if he was real hero he was stupid one, rule No. one don't put loaded weapon in hand of unstable person, he might fall over.

I appreciate the service of your father as a bomber pilot.

But let's be real. There is a difference between killing someone as a sniper and dropping bombs on people as a bomber pilot. There's a reason why bomber pilots don't keep kill counts.

Fighter pilots on the other hand all kept kill counts. FYI.